Where is it in the bible?

Clare73 said:

You're committed now to this corrupt thinking. . .

Christ did not give Mosaic Law. Moses gave Mosaic Law.

Your corrupt thinking lies in trying to make them the same.

Aw gee, Bod. . .

Click to expand...

Thou shalt not Kill, Thou shalt not covet (a commandment Paul only quoted from the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20, not even the words of Christ), Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not commit adultery, etc. etc.---as Paul quotes in Romans 13--are all laws that were given to Moses. Jesus and Paul quoted Moses constantly.

The Ten Commandments are binding upon humanity, and they are known as the "original testimony". God said, "And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee." (Exodus 25:6)

This "testimony" was the "tables of the testimony" (Exodus 32:15), or Ten Commandments, were placed directly in the Ark of the Covenant.

In the New Covenant, we are still bound by the original Tables of Testimony located in Heaven's Ark of the Covenant:


Thus, the original Ten Commandments, for which God gave Moses a copy thereof, are located in Heaven's Sanctuary Temple, and we are being judged by that law of liberty.

That Law is the "Law of God", not the Law of Moses. The Ten Commandments are not the same as the laws "given" to Moses. The Sabbath is BINDING.

The Sabbath is a requirement--and it liberates us from sin.

The Sabbath is a requirement--and it liberates us from sin.

It is....one more time.....it ISSS a NEW TESTAMENT COMMANDMENT FOR THE CHRISTIAN!

KEEP. IT. HOLY.

Let's not keep ARGUING against God Almighty! This is the STRAIGHT and cutting truth. Keep the Sabbath Holy, and QUIT resisting GOD!

The Original Ten Commandments ARE IN HEAVEN!

They are NOT the Mosaic Law.

Proof?

God made known this distinction to His servant Moses, and Moses explained it to the people at Mt. Horeb.


Please notice how Moses clearly separated the Ten Commandments, which “he commanded you,” from the statutes which “he commanded me” to give the people. The big question now is whether those statutes and judgments, which Moses passed on to the people, were designated as a separate and distinct “law.”

God answers that important question in such a way that no doubt can remain.


Here we are assured that the statutes which Moses gave the people were called a “law.” Any child can discern that two different laws are being described. God speaks of the law “I commanded” and also the “law ... Moses commanded.” Unless this truth is understood properly, limitless confusion will result.

The Ten Commandments were the ONLY commandments, EVER, in human history, spoken to God's people BY HIS OWN LIPS! The REST of the laws Moses communicated. And what does God say about what He commandments from His OWN LIPS?

"My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." (Psalms 89:34) --- THIS is referring to the EVERLASTING COVENANT--which over-arches BOTH the Old and New Covenants, and for which the Ten Commandments are INTRINSICALLY tied to--especially the Sabbath.

Daniel was inspired to make the same careful distinction when he prayed for the desolated sanctuary of his scattered nation.


Once more we see “thy law” and “the law of Moses,” and this time the two are recognized as different in content. There are no curses recorded in the Ten Commandments that God wrote, but the law which Moses wrote contained an abundance of such curses and judgments.

Clare73..... pay attention now to what I'm going to tell you, and I pray that you will not resist it, and that you will make up your mind to accept it.

1. When the Old Covenant was abolished, it could not have been the Law of God, for the Law of God is "perfect" (Psalms 19:7), converting the soul, and James 1:25 calls it the "perfect law of liberty". Yet the Old Covenant was "imperfect" and found to be with "fault" (Hebrews 8:7,8)--therefore, if the covenant was abolished because it had "fault", yet the Law and Commandment is "perfect" and is "holy" and "just" and "good" (Romans 7:12), then the Law could not be part of that which was imperfect! It's as SIMPLE as that!

2. The Sabbath was "made" in Eden, in Genesis 2:2,3, and Jesus declared that the "sabbath was MADE (at creation) for MANKIND" (Mark 2:27)--the only mankind that existed when the Sabbath was MADE was Adam and Eve the day before. This is LONG before any Old Covenant was made with Moses!

3. The Sabbath was made known to the forgetful Children of Israel in the Sinai Peninsula (they had forgotten the laws of their fathers over 400 years of enslavement in Egypt, so now God was coming back to remind them)--and he commanded them to keep the Sabbath Holy in Exodus 16 with the MANNA test, BEFORE they reached Sinai. It was not until Exodus 24, that the Old Covenant was RATIFIED by the blood of an Ox. Therefore, the Sabbath was a commandment of God BEFORE the Old Covenant was given---thus, when the Old Covenant was "abolished", the Sabbath commandment as given in Genesis 2:2,3, Exodus 16, Exodus 20, and Mark 2:27 could not get "abolished WITH it".

It's as simple as that!

LittleLambofJesus said:

Interesting to note that event is when the Romans came upon Jerusalem in ad 70.
Which leads me to ask, was the Passover also a Sabbath?


Matt 24:19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20 "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

Click to expand...

In Matt 24:20 Jesus is not speaking of the doom and final destruction - but of a point of escape when the Christians would see the city surrounded and then unnexpectedly the army would leave and the Christians would be allowed to escape - and flee -- but praying that their flight not be on THE Sabbath day. (That happened in 66 A.D)

In 66 AD, the Jews, greatly troubled by the procurator of Judea, Florus, revolted against Rome.
In that same year, Cestius Gallus, governor of Syria, came upon Jerusalem to end the revolt, but
for some reason withdrew (cf. Matt. 24:15,16; Mk. 13:14; Lk 21:20,21; Rev. 7:3) and nearly
lost his troops to the retaliating Jews.
http://www.salinechurchofchrist.org/classes/2007/revelation/DestructionJerusalem.pdf

Click to expand...

LittleLambofJesus said:

Surely thou jest

Are you trying to imply Jesus made a false prophecy to the Jews

Click to expand...

No - I am saying you are skipping over a truck-load of Matt 24 details to get to that idea about Christ telling Jews to run out of the city in 70. A.D when it was too late to run.

The Roman armies surrounded the city in AD. 67 - providing the sign that Jesus promised in Matt 24... then they LEFT.

They came back in 70.AD and by then all the Christians had left - those who listened to Christ's warning sign in Matt 24 - were forewarned.

You cannot blame your own lack of attention to the details in Matt 24 and in history on me.

I stated specifically that Matt 24:20 is about that warning sign -- given to the saints.

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things?
Assuredly, I say to you, not [one] stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Click to expand...

Indeed - in that OTHER verse - Jesus is talking about the destruction of Jerusalem.

Details details - you need to notice that vs 20 is not vs 2 and the details in vs 20 show it to be in regard to a sign - a warning to flee.

Not the "too late your dead" sign of 70.A.D.

In the same way the saints today have a sign from God to flee the cities just before the 7 last plagues begin.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan said:

1 Cor 7:19 had already made the point "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" by the time the reader gets to 1Corinthians 9 -- and thus forms the context for it.

So also 1Cor 6 - listing a number of commandment breaking sins and declaring to the saints that those who do such things "do not inherit eternal life".

Context is everything when it comes to exegesis.

And in every case where Paul mentions the Commandments - it is always the TEN Commandments (See Romans 7, Romans 13 and Ephesians 6:2) or some other OT Law such as Lev 19:18.

In Romans 6 Paul goes into the subject of "not under Law but under grace" in great detail. And there he argues that transgression of the LAW (sinning) is out of place for the Christian. Those who claim to be enslaved to law breaking according to Romans 6 - are not on the path to eternal life.

Click to expand...

Clare73 said:

Looks like I missed this one too!

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

Are you saying that the word of God in 1Co 7:19 negates the word of God in 1Co 9:20, setting the word of God against itself? Not my Bob! (God forbid!)

Click to expand...

Indeed. God forbid! I am saying that 1Cor 6 and 7 frame the context for that short statement in 1Cor 7 and that Romans 6 is an entire chapter dedicated to that subject.

Clare73 said:

Okay, so we are agreed on 1Co 9:20: "I myself am not under the law."

Click to expand...

Hopefully we can "agree" that chapters 6 and 7 come BEFORE chapter 9 and frame the context for it.

We can agree to "pay attention to the details" we see in chapters 6 and 7 as they speak to BOTH the subject of law breaking AND to Commandment KEEPING by the saints.

And we can agree that 1Cor 7 proves that one part of the law - the moral law remains "KEEP the commandments of God" while at the same time the ceremonial aspects "neither is circumcision or uncircumcision anything" - can be done away as Hebrews 7 and Hebrews 10 would indicate.

And hopefully we both "noticed" that Romans 6 uses the term "UNDER the Law" as it insists that the saints not violate the Law of God.

in Christ,

Bob

Lysimachus said:

These commentators did not have all the light. They were wrong about The Lord's Day being Sunday- .

Click to expand...

R.C Sproul makes it clear that the "Lord's day" is in fact the Sabbath.

R.C Sproul - sermon on REST
In some cases we violate the law by working seven (days) instead of six(days) or we can violate it in the other direction by taking a longer rest that we should. But the Seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God – its HIS day that’s why its called colloquially the “Lord’s Day”. It belongs to HIM. HE reigns over IT. …

Click to expand...

So also does the RCC admit to this point about the Bible Lord's Day being Sabbath.

in Christ,

Bob

Clare73 said:

Bob, do you think we really have a basis for discussion?

Our hermeneutic is too different.

Click to expand...

It depends on your interest in the bible and the possibility that details you are ignoring can have serious implications for your conclusions about a given doctrine.

The objective unbiased readers will notice these details - even if you choose not to.

The point is - that just playing to an uncritical reader who accepts some point on bias alone -- is not sufficient to compel the objective unbiased readers who choose to look at a given subject using some critical thinking.

It is that group that I am striving to reach.

I do not consider it a loss simply because the one posting in opposition to my views - chooses not to be in that group. I am thankful for their participation no matter their choice in that regard.

in Christ,

Bob

Clare73 said:

You're committed now to this corrupt thinking. . .

Christ did not give Mosaic Law. Moses gave Mosaic Law.

Your corrupt thinking lies in trying to make them the same.. .

Click to expand...

So then 2Peter 1:20-21 is not true nor 2Tim 3:16 nor John 5:46-47 -- all of it false??? - where NT authors claim that the writings of Moses are in fact scripture -- God given scripture?

2Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture given by inspiration from GOD and is profitable for doctrine and correction"

And of course Christ HIMSELF argued that HIS words are not at all in contrast to the Father - but that He only speaks that which the Father gives Him.

2Peter 1:20-21 NO scripture is in fact "a matter of one's own interpretation but holy men of old moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God"

John 5:46-47 those who reject the teaching of Moses will reject Christ "but if you reject Moses' writings how will you believe Me"

your argument is that the word of God is nothing more than the "word of man" the "word of Moses" - your argument is with the text itself.

The Bible says that Moses' word IS every bit the inspired word of God - "scripture" - that 2Tim 3:16 and 2 Peter 1:20-21 claim as we see in these examples of Moses' writings being accepted NT scripture --

Gal 4:30, 1 Tim 5:18, James 2: 8, 23

You need not take my word for it. Find it in the bible just as noted above.

Clare73 said:

Bob, our hermeneutic is too different, leaving us no real basis for discussion.

We're just going in circles. . .

Click to expand...

That is not correct.

You allowed yourself to admit in a post (for the first time) that your view "needs" to view the writings of Moses as "NOT" being scripture.

This gave us the opportunity to note the texts above that DO Call the writings of Moses "scripture".

Now you are stuck having to either go against Paul in 2Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God" or else confront the fact that your view does require the writings of Moses to NOT be the Word of God - and that such a thing cannot be defended from the NT text much less the OT.

In Exodus 20 it is GOD that is thundering His Law from Sinai and writing it on stone with HIS own finger -- not Moses.
In Numbers 12 it is GOD that says that Moses level of direct communication with God is BEYOND the level of prophets writing scripture.
In Matt 22 Christ said that the LaW of Moses in Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 is not only the Basis for God's LAW -- it is also the basis and foundation of scripture (The Prophets).

You freely admitted to a key dependency in your own argument when you insisted that Moses' writings not be considered the Word of God Himself.

This allowed us to TEST your assumptions and conclusion by the Bible.

"They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul were so" Acts 17:11.

Sola scriptura testing of all doctrine. What a great concept!!

One thing that may help in this regard - consider John chapter 1 for a minute. "In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God and the WORD was GOD". Christ is the GOD of the OT that was "SEEN" by the Elders of Israel on the Mountain.

We can be thankful that D.L Moody, Andy Stanley, R.C Sproul have a solution here that does not require that they pit Christ against the Bible or against God the Father - or imagine that Moses' writings are not in fact the Word of God Himself. This is something to consider if you are looking for a little less "swiss cheese" as they say.

in Christ,

Bob

LittleLambofJesus said:

Like what this rich man is going thru for breaking the Law

Click to expand...

Ah, but what is "breaking the Law"? Refusing to execute homosexuals?

Lysimachus said:

Thou shalt not Kill, Thou shalt not covet (a commandment Paul only quoted from the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20, not even the words of Christ), Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not commit adultery, etc. etc.---as Paul quotes in Romans 13--are all laws that were given to Moses. Jesus and Paul quoted Moses constantly.

The Ten Commandments are binding upon humanity, and they are known as the "original testimony". God said, "And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee." (Exodus 25:6)

This "testimony" was the "tables of the testimony" (Exodus 32:15), or Ten Commandments, were placed directly in the Ark of the Covenant.

In the New Covenant, we are still bound by the original Tables of Testimony located in Heaven's Ark of the Covenant:

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail." (Revelation 11:19)

"And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened." (Revelation 15:5)​

Thus, the original Ten Commandments, for which God gave Moses a copy thereof, are located in Heaven's Sanctuary Temple, and we are being judged by that law of liberty.

That Law is the "Law of God", not the Law of Moses. The Ten Commandments are not the same as the laws "given" to Moses. The Sabbath is BINDING.

The Sabbath is a requirement--and it liberates us from sin.

The Sabbath is a requirement--and it liberates us from sin.

It is....one more time.....it ISSS a NEW TESTAMENT COMMANDMENT FOR THE CHRISTIAN!

KEEP. IT. HOLY.

Let's not keep ARGUING against God Almighty! This is the STRAIGHT and cutting truth. Keep the Sabbath Holy, and QUIT resisting GOD!

The Original Ten Commandments ARE IN HEAVEN!

They are NOT the Mosaic Law.

Proof?

God made known this distinction to His servant Moses, and Moses explained it to the people at Mt. Horeb.

“And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it” (Deuteronomy 4:13, 14).​

Please notice how Moses clearly separated the Ten Commandments, which “he commanded you,” from the statutes which “he commanded me” to give the people. The big question now is whether those statutes and judgments, which Moses passed on to the people, were designated as a separate and distinct “law.”

God answers that important question in such a way that no doubt can remain.

“Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them” (2 Kings 21:8).​

Here we are assured that the statutes which Moses gave the people were called a “law.” Any child can discern that two different laws are being described. God speaks of the law “I commanded” and also the “law ... Moses commanded.” Unless this truth is understood properly, limitless confusion will result.

The Ten Commandments were the ONLY commandments, EVER, in human history, spoken to God's people BY HIS OWN LIPS! The REST of the laws Moses communicated. And what does God say about what He commandments from His OWN LIPS?

"My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." (Psalms 89:34) --- THIS is referring to the EVERLASTING COVENANT--which over-arches BOTH the Old and New Covenants, and for which the Ten Commandments are INTRINSICALLY tied to--especially the Sabbath.

Daniel was inspired to make the same careful distinction when he prayed for the desolated sanctuary of his scattered nation.

“Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him” (Daniel 9:11).​

Once more we see “thy law” and “the law of Moses,” and this time the two are recognized as different in content. There are no curses recorded in the Ten Commandments that God wrote, but the law which Moses wrote contained an abundance of such curses and judgments.

Clare73..... pay attention now to what I'm going to tell you, and I pray that you will not resist it, and that you will make up your mind to accept it.

1. When the Old Covenant was abolished, it could not have been the Law of God, for the Law of God is "perfect" (Psalms 19:7), converting the soul, and James 1:25 calls it the "perfect law of liberty". Yet the Old Covenant was "imperfect" and found to be with "fault" (Hebrews 8:7,8)--therefore, if the covenant was abolished because it had "fault", yet the Law and Commandment is "perfect" and is "holy" and "just" and "good" (Romans 7:12), then the Law could not be part of that which was imperfect! It's as SIMPLE as that!

2. The Sabbath was "made" in Eden, in Genesis 2:2,3, and Jesus declared that the "sabbath was MADE (at creation) for MANKIND" (Mark 2:27)--the only mankind that existed when the Sabbath was MADE was Adam and Eve the day before. This is LONG before any Old Covenant was made with Moses!

3. The Sabbath was made known to the forgetful Children of Israel in the Sinai Peninsula (they had forgotten the laws of their fathers over 400 years of enslavement in Egypt, so now God was coming back to remind them)--and he commanded them to keep the Sabbath Holy in Exodus 16 with the MANNA test, BEFORE they reached Sinai. It was not until Exodus 24, that the Old Covenant was RATIFIED by the blood of an Ox. Therefore, the Sabbath was a commandment of God BEFORE the Old Covenant was given---thus, when the Old Covenant was "abolished", the Sabbath commandment as given in Genesis 2:2,3, Exodus 16, Exodus 20, and Mark 2:27 could not get "abolished WITH it".

It's as simple as that!

Click to expand...

So give it a try. What doesn't the NT command that we MUST obey from the Law?

Lysemachus..... pay attention now to what I'm going to tell you, and I pray that you will not resist it, and that you will make up your mind to accept it.
[


***2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for... doctrine,.... for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That does NOT say all Scriptures are ABOUT us. Case in point:
***Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you (ISRAEL) his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

The "YOU" is Israel. Gentiles were never bound by the "law". Mount Sanai was the place the marriage contract was agreed upon and Israel is God's "wife" so to speak.

When quoting Revelation BE CAREFUL. That book is Hebrew in character. It is ONLY the nation of Israel that were to be a Kingdom of priests:
***Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Israel failed in their idolatrous ways (see Hosea in particular for the relationship as a wife and adultry) and the priesthood was given to the tribe of Levi.
***Rev 1:6
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever (ages of the ages). Amen.

***Ps 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect.....
The law IS perfect for sure but Israel could NOT keep it that is why the New Covenant will take effect when the Holy Spirit invades the Earth and with His help the law will be in THEIR hearts. Our calling with be manifested into the Heaven far above all (Colossians 3:4) when this takes effect.

***2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
***2 Peter 1:12......be established in the present truth.....
Acts 28 is a dispensational boundary where GOD divided the Word of Truth but people will shun it even when shown to support their pet doctrines.

AFTER Acts 28:
***Eph 3:5-6
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, (top secret) as it is now (AD 63...close enough) revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That (the subject of the revelation is) the Gentiles should be fellowheirs(joint-heirs..Gr. sunkleronomos), and of the same body (members of a joint body….Gr. sussomos [only here]…..and NOT joined to an existing Jewish body but of twain…..ONE…..NEW…..MAN!), and (joint-)partakers (Gr. Summetochos…joint partakers) of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

That is a three-fold equality now. Israel was divorced….Lo-Ammi (Hosea 1:9)… at Acts 28:28 and distinctions are wiped out! There are just believers and unbelievers today.

***Eph 2:12-16
12 That at that time ye (Gentiles)were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 Butnow (AD 63)in Christ Jesus ye (Gentiles) who sometimes (once)were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath madeboth (Jew and Gentile)….one... and hath broken down the middle wall of partition (death to any Gentile that passed this stone barrier) between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh (His death) the enmity, even the law of (dogmatic) commandments contained in ordinances; for to make(Gr. poiema-CREATE) in himself of twain (of the two…Jew and Gentile)….. one….new…. man,….so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both (Jew and Gentile) unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity (of the law of dogmatic commandments) thereby (by the cross):

Notice Ephesians 3:5. Our calling was TOP SECRET. Here also:
***Eph 3:9....the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God.....

***2 Cor 5:17….old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (God's creation as to the individual here)
The relationship is like a new heaven and new Earth. The Gentiles were NEVER a part of Israel. They were ALIENS to the commonwealth of Israel...period! This is NOT about individual standing in Christ but is a NEW corporate body of believers. The Gentiles and Israel are now on the same plane. Israel is no longer first as during the Acts era.....period! The "Gentiles" in this case include Israel for "ethnos" means....NATIONS. Gentiles before Acts 28 are set over against Israel...God's chosen people as a NATION separated from all other nations.
Colossians is a parallel epistle:
***Col 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

When shown this the vast majority of believers are just like Jehudi:
***Jer 36:21-23
21 So the king sent Jehudi to fetch the roll: and he took it out of Elishama the scribe's chamber. And Jehudi read it in the ears of the king, and in the ears of all the princes which stood beside the king.
22 Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month: and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him.
23 And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.

They did NOT believe the latest report!
***Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report?

Until this new calling is recognized as God has given there will continue to be disputes such as this. Until then ALL of you are out of order!
***1 Cor 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion,

See signature below.

PS:

God WILL turn back to Israel in the book of Revelation after we are GONE from this earth (Col 3:4):
***Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
***2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

dollarsbill said:

So give it a try. What doesn't the NT command that we MUST obey from the Law?

Click to expand...

There are no NT commands in that manner .

Some additions ...

James4_14 said:

***2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for... doctrine,.... for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That does NOT say all Scriptures are ABOUT us.

Click to expand...

Nor that *any* of the Scriptures are necessary or important .

Case in point:
***Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you (ISRAEL) his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

The "YOU" is Israel. Gentiles were never bound by the "law".

Click to expand...

Nor any of the Scriptures .

***2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Click to expand...

This has absolutely nothing to do with the Scriptures . This is the classic case where people *say* that there is a command and then become hypocrites by refusing to obey it . Anyopne actually obeying this passage ( as they say it says ) and studying this passage will see that it has nothing to do with the Scriptures . And , it is all because people read Jimmy's version as if it was translated into one of today's languages .

James4_14 said:

Lysemachus..... pay attention now to what I'm going to tell you, and I pray that you will not resist it, and that you will make up your mind to accept it.
[


***2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for... doctrine,.... for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That does NOT say all Scriptures are ABOUT us. Case in point:
***Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you (ISRAEL) his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

The "YOU" is Israel. Gentiles were never bound by the "law". Mount Sanai was the place the marriage contract was agreed upon and Israel is God's "wife" so to speak.

When quoting Revelation BE CAREFUL. That book is Hebrew in character. It is ONLY the nation of Israel that were to be a Kingdom of priests:

Click to expand...

In your haste to oppose God's Law you apparently admit the need to throw out all of scripture even though IT is where we get our doctrine from -according to 2Tim 3:16.

That is a pretty far reaching extreme.

In Jer 31:31-33 and in Hebrews 8 the "New Covenant" is made with "The House of Israel".

But as you point out - you have already tossed scripture out the window so adding that New Covenant to that which you reject - would probably seem to you like a matter of little consequence.

No wonder D.L Moody, R.C Sproul and Andy Stanley do not go down that dead-end road.

"They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul were SO". Acts 17:11.

Give me the Bible every time!

in Christ,

Bob

Lysimachus said:

Clare73..... pay attention now to what I'm going to tell you, and I pray that you will not resist it, and that you will make up your mind to accept it.

Click to expand...

Thank you, Lysimachus, for your concern about me and your prayer for me.
And I understand your frustration.

However, the analogy of Scripture does not support what you maintain, which I address below:

1) Yes, Jesus and Paul quoted Moses constantly.

The Mosaic Law was the law of God, after all.

I covered this extensively [post=61149436]here[/post] and [post=61162700]here[/post].

2) Only the stone tablets of the Ten Commandments were placed in the Ark because they were the covenant (Dt 4:13).
The Ark contained the Testimony to the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant, which served as a witness, either for them, or againt them regarding the covenant.

All the laws given at Sinai were given to the people of God only. They were not give to the rest of mankind.
I've covered this [post=61169468]here[/post], [post=61168774]here[/post], [post=61178498]here[/post] and [post=61178694]here[/post].

3) Paul was not under the law given at Sinai: "I myself am not under the law" (1Co 9:20).
He was under the law of Christ (Gal 6:2), which is the law of God (1 Co 9:21).
In the NT, love is the fulfillment of the whole Law (Ro 13:8, 10; Gal 5:4; Jas 2:8).
I've covered this [post=61169134]here[/post] and in the previous links.

4) Yes, Moses refers to God's laws in terms of "you" and "me"--God declared to them his covenant, the Ten Commandments, when they stood at the foot of Mount Sinai, and he gave the rest of his laws in Exodus
and Leviticus to Moses when they were not at the foot of Mount Sinai.

5) But the Sinatic (Old) Covenant has been made obsolete (Heb 8:13) by the New Covenant in the blood of Christ (Lk 22:20). We are no longer under the Sinaitic Covenant, the Ten Commandments (Dt 4:13), and the curse attached to the law (Gal 3:10; Dt 27:26) for not keeping it perfectly (Jas 2:10).

In the NT, we are under the law of love (Ro 13:8, 10; Gal 5:4; Jas 2:8) which fulfills "whatever commandments there may be" (Ro 13:9), and which has no curse attached for not keeping it perfectly.

You stop short, Lysimachus, of the whole NT revelation of God,
which abolishes (Eph 2:15) and sets aside (Heb 7:18-19) the Mosaic Law,
makes the Sinatic (Old) Covenant obsolete (Heb 8:13) and
instead places us under the New Covenant (Lk 22:20) and the law of love (Ro 13:8,10; Gal 5:14; Jas 2:8),
which fulfills (Ro 13:8, 10) the whole law (Ro 13:9), and has no curse attached for not obeying it perfectly,
and where Christ alone is our high priest, atonement, righteousness, Sabbath, mediator of the covenant and lawgiver.

In the faith,
Clare

BobRyan said:

Clare73 said:

Our hermeneutic is too different.

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It depends on your interest in the bible. . .

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I think it depends on the hermeneutic.

BobRyan said:

You allowed yourself to admit in a post (for the first time) that your view "needs" to view the writings of Moses as "NOT" being scripture.

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Who-o-o-a there, Podna!

You've got me confused with someone else..

I've said no such thing.

New_Wineskin said:

There are no NT commands in that manner .

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But getting the preachers of the Law to explain is kind of like pulling teeth. But they keep preaching THEIR versions of the Law of Moses.

BobRyan said:

In your haste to oppose God's Law you apparently admit the need to throw out all of scripture even though IT is where we get our doctrine from -according to 2Tim 3:16.

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I don't think he's opposing God's Law. I think he's opposing YOUR version, as I am.

dollarsbill said:

But getting the preachers of the Law to explain is kind of like pulling teeth. But they keep preaching THEIR versions of the Law of Moses.

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And , they will quote passages leaving parts out with no seperation so that you know that they left something out unless you look it up yourself and compare . They also take a passage about the feast Sabbaths out of context and claim that assamblies are for weekly Sabbaths . They know that they are diliberately misquoting what they are pushing but don't care . They also know that it completely contradicts the Sabbath rest commands and destroys the whole purpose of the commans but don't care about that , either . Truth is thrown out the window . And , they try to keep a straight face while doing it .

dollarsbill said:

I don't think he's opposing God's Law. I think he's opposing YOUR version, as I am.

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They know that . They are making false accusations to see if people are paying attention to them .