Total Ability

gmm4j · Aug 16, 2012

So you have:

1. Examples from Genesis to Revelation with absolutely no indication that unregenerated man had to be regenerated in order to believe.

2. Numerous verses that show that God is not thedirect cause in makingmen choose Him or take positive steps toward Him.

3. Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to do so. God tells unregenerate man to choose Him.

4. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to seek Him.

5. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to know God by telling him to turn to Him and to know Him.

6. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to trust God.

7. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man retains the ability to choose God by telling man to choose to come to Him.

8. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to repent and turn to God.

9. Scripture proving that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to respond favorably to God by telling man to call on the Lord.

10. Scripture proves that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to respond favorably to God by telling him to believe.

11. Numerous Scripture verses that prove that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to have faith.

12. The command to teach, instruct, or train fallen men would be absurd if unregenerate men
did not have the God-given ability to be instructed or taught in the ways of the Lord.

13. The parables of the hidden treasure and pearl of great price indicate that fallen man has the God-given ability to seek for and find the Kingdom.

And then you add to these, the fact that:

14. The many Scripture verses that speak of people resisting, refusing, rejecting, and rebelling against God, communicates to the reader that they could have chosen to do otherwise. Also, the many “if” statements throughout Scripture that are connected with the options set before unregenerate people to choose, show that man has the ability to choose. The very word “if” itself denotes the possibility of options and the ability to choose. “If” statements are always conditional and cannot convey forced or preordained conditions.

Exodus 23:20-22
"See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. 21 Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him. 22 If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you.

Leviticus 26:14-16
But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you:

Leviticus 26:43-44
They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees. 44 Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the LORD their God.

Numbers 11:20
because you have rejected the LORD, who is among you, and have wailed before him, saying, "Why did we ever leave Egypt?"

Numbers 14:8-9
If the LORD is pleased with us, he will lead us into that land, a land flowing with milk and honey, and will give it to us. 9 Only do not rebel against the LORD. And do not be afraid of the people of the land, because we will swallow them up. Their protection is gone, but the LORD is with us.

Numbers 14:11-12
The LORD said to Moses, "How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the miraculous signs I have performed among them? 12 I will strike them down with a plague and destroy them, but I will make you into a nation greater and stronger than they."

Deuteronomy 18:18-19
I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.

Deuteronomy 28:2
All these blessings will come upon you and accompany you if you obey the LORD your God:

Deuteronomy 28:15
However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

Deuteronomy 30:9-10
The LORD will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your fathers, 10 if you obey the LORD your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Deuteronomy 30:17-18
But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed.

Joshua 23:14-16
Every promise has been fulfilled; not one has failed. 15 But just as every good promise of the LORD your God has come true, so the LORD will bring on you all the evil he has threatened, until he has destroyed you from this good land he has given you. 16 If you violate the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and go and serve other gods and bow down to them, the LORD's anger will burn against you, and you will quickly perish from the good land he has given you.

Joshua 24:15
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.

Joshua 24:20-22
If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster on you and make an end of you, after he has been good to you." 21 But the people said to Joshua, "No! We will serve the LORD." 22 Then Joshua said, "You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen to serve the LORD."

Judges 2:18-20
the LORD had compassion on them as they groaned under those who oppressed and afflicted them. 19 But when the judge died, the people returned to ways even more corrupt than those of their fathers, following other gods and serving and worshiping them. They refused to give up their evil practices and stubborn ways. 20 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel and said, "Because this nation has violated the covenant that I laid down for their forefathers and has not listened to me,

1 Samuel 8:7-8
And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you.

1 Samuel 12:14-15
If you fear the LORD and serve and obey him and do not rebel against his commands, and if both you and the king who reigns over you follow the LORD your God-good! 15 But if you do not obey the LORD, and if you rebel against his commands, his hand will be against you, as it was against your fathers.

1 Samuel 13:13-14
"You acted foolishly," Samuel said. "You have not kept the command the LORD your God gave you; if you had, he would have established your kingdom over Israel for all time. 14 But now your kingdom will not endure; the LORD has sought out a man after his own heart and appointed him leader of his people, because you have not kept the LORD's command."

1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is like the sin of divination, and arrogance like the evil of idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, he has rejected you as king.

1 Kings 19:10
He replied, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, broken down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword.

2 Kings 17:14-15
But they would not listen and were as stiff-necked as their fathers, who did not trust in the LORD their God. 15 They rejected his decrees and the covenant he had made with their fathers and the warnings he had given them. They followed worthless idols and themselves became worthless. They imitated the nations around them although the LORD had ordered them, "Do not do as they do," and they did the things the LORD had forbidden them to do.

1 Chronicles 28:9
And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

2 Chronicles 30:6-9
"People of Israel, return to the LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, that he may return to you who are left, who have escaped from the hand of the kings of Assyria. 7 Do not be like your fathers and brothers, who were unfaithful to the LORD, the God of their fathers, so that he made them an object of horror, as you see. 8 Do not be stiff-necked, as your fathers were; submit to the LORD. Come to the sanctuary, which he has consecrated forever. Serve the LORD your God, so that his fierce anger will turn away from you. 9 If you return to the LORD, then your brothers and your children will be shown compassion by their captors and will come back to this land, for the LORD your God is gracious and compassionate. He will not turn his face from you if you return to him."

2 Chronicles 30:18-20
But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, "May the LORD, who is good, pardon everyone 19 who sets his heart on seeking God-the LORD, the God of his fathers-even if he is not clean according to the rules of the sanctuary." 20 And the LORD heard Hezekiah and healed the people.

Nehemiah 1:8-9
"Remember the instruction you gave your servant Moses, saying, 'If you are unfaithful, I will scatter you among the nations, 9 but if you return to me and obey my commands, then even if your exiled people are at the farthest horizon, I will gather them from there and bring them to the place I have chosen as a dwelling for my Name.'

Nehemiah 9:16-17
But they, our forefathers, became arrogant and stiff-necked, and did not obey your commands. 17 They refused to listen and failed to remember the miracles you performed among them. They became stiff-necked and in their rebellion appointed a leader in order to return to their slavery.

Psalms 78:10-11
they did not keep God's covenant and refused to live by his law. 11 They forgot what he had done, the wonders he had shown them.

Isaiah 1:19-20
If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land; 20 but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword." For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.

Isaiah 48:18
If only you had paid attention to my commands, your peace would have been like a river, your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Isaiah 58:13-14
If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD's holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, 14 then you will find your joy in the LORD,

gmm4j · Aug 16, 2012

More conditional "if" statements and verses that speak of "resistance" rather than inability...

Ezekiel 2:6-8
Do not be afraid of what they say or terrified by them, though they are a rebellious house. 7 You must speak my words to them, whether they listen or fail to listen, for they are rebellious. 8 But you, son of man, listen to what I say to you. Do not rebel like that rebellious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you.

Ezekiel 20:13
Yet the people of Israel rebelled against me in the desert. They did not follow my decrees but rejected my laws-although the man who obeys them will live by them

Ezekiel 18:21-24
"But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? 24 But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.

Jeremiah 4:1-2
"If you will return, O Israel, return to me," declares the LORD. "If you put your detestable idols out of my sight and no longer go astray, 2 and if in a truthful, just and righteous way you swear, 'As surely as the LORD lives, 'then the nations will be blessed by him

Jeremiah 5:3
O LORD, do not your eyes look for truth? You struck them, but they felt no pain; you crushed them, but they refused correction. They made their faces harder than stone and refused to repent.

Jeremiah 7:4-7
If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, 6 if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, 7 then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your forefathers for ever and ever.

Jeremiah 8:4-9
"'When men fall down, do they not get up? When a man turns away, does he not return? 5 Why then have these people turned away? Why does Jerusalem always turn away? They cling to deceit; they refuse to return. 6 I have listened attentively, but they do not say what is right. No one repents of his wickedness, saying, "What have I done?" Each pursues his own course like a horse charging into battle. 7 Even the stork in the sky knows her appointed seasons, and the dove, the swift and the thrush observe the time of their migration. But my people do not know the requirements of the LORD. 8 "'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? 9 The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?

Jeremiah 13:10
These wicked people, who refuse to listen to my words, who follow the stubbornness of their hearts and go after other gods to serve and worship them, will be like this belt — completely useless!

Jeremiah 15:19
Therefore this is what the LORD says: "If you repent, I will restore you that you may serve me; if you utter worthy, not worthless, words, you will be my spokesman.

Jeremiah 18:7-10
If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.

Jeremiah 26:4-6
'This is what the LORD says: If you do not listen to me and follow my law, which I have set before you, 5 and if you do not listen to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I have sent to you again and again (though you have not listened), 6 then I will make this house like Shiloh and this city an object of cursing among all the nations of the earth.'

Hosea 4:6
Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children.

Hosea 11:5
Will they not return to Egypt and will not Assyria rule over them because they refuse to repent?

Zechariah 7:11-14
But they refused to pay attention; stubbornly they turned their backs and stopped up their ears. 12 They made their hearts as hard as flint and would not listen to the law or to the words that the LORD Almighty had sent by his Spirit through the earlier prophets. So the LORD Almighty was very angry. 13 "'When I called, they did not listen; so when they called, I would not listen,' says the LORD Almighty.

Malachi 2:2
If you do not listen, and if you do not set your heart to honor my name," says the LORD Almighty, "I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not set your heart to honor me.

gmm4j · Aug 16, 2012

Even more conditional "if" statements and verses showing "resistance" rather than inability...

Matthew 7:9-11
Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

Matthew 16:24-26
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. 26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul?

Matthew 21:42
The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone;

Luke 17:25
But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

John 5:39-40
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 7:15
If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

John 7:37-39
“If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.”

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins."

John 8:31-32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

John 8:51
I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

John 14:15
If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 14:23-24
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.

John 15:5-6
If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Acts 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 14:1-2
There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Gentiles believed. 2 But the Jews who refused to believe stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers.

Acts 19:8-9
Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9 But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way.

Romans 2:7-8
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Romans 11:23
And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If anyone does not love the Lord-a curse be on him. Come, O Lord!

2 Corinthians 4:3-4
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

2 Corinthians 5:17-19
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Thessalonians 4:8
Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.

2 Thessalonians 2:10
They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

2 Timothy 2:11-13
If we died with him, we will also live with him; 12 if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; 13 if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

Hebrews 4:7
“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”

Hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

Hebrews 10:38
But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him."

Hebrews 12:25
See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?

James 5:19-20
My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

2 Peter 1:10-11
Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 2:9-10
the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment. 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1-2
But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Revelation 16:9-11
They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him. 10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. Men gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

gmm4j · Aug 16, 2012

So you have:

1. Examples from Genesis to Revelation with absolutely no indication that unregenerated man had to be regenerated in order to believe.

2. Numerous verses that show that God is not thedirect cause in makingmen choose Him or take positive steps toward Him.

3. Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to do so. God tells unregenerate man to choose Him.

4. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to seek Him.

5. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to know God by
telling him to turn to Him and to know Him.

6. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to trust God.

7. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man retains the ability to choose God by telling man to choose to come to Him.

8. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to repent and turn to God.

9. Scripture proving that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to respond favorably to God by telling man to call on the Lord.

10. Scripture proves that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to respond favorably to God by telling him to believe.

11. Numerous Scripture verses that prove that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to have faith.

12. The command to teach, instruct, or train fallen men would be absurd if unregenerate men did not have the God-given ability to be instructed or taught in the ways of the Lord.

13. The parables of the hidden treasure and pearl of great price indicate that fallen man
has the God-given ability to seek for and find the Kingdom.

14. The many Scripture verses that speak of people resisting, refusing, rejecting, and
rebelling against God, communicates to the reader that they could have chosen to do
otherwise. Also, the many “if” statements throughout Scripture that are connected with the
options set before unregenerate people to choose, show that man has the ability to choose.
The very word “if” itself denotes the possibility of options and the ability to choose. “If”
statements are always conditional and cannot convey forced or preordained conditions.

And then you add to these, the fact that:

15. The following verse in 1 Corinthians 2 specifically indicates that “your” faith could rest on God’s power, or it could rest on men’s wisdom. Surely if a faith could rest on God’s power, then according to Calvinism, it must be a genuine faith directly given by God and could certainly never rest on men’s wisdom. But instead, as this verse shows us, “your” faith can be placed in men or in Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:4-5
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.

gmm4j · Aug 16, 2012

So, let’s continue:

1. Examples from Genesis to Revelation with absolutely no indication that unregenerated man had to be regenerated in order to believe.

2. Numerous verses that show that God is not thedirect cause in making men choose Him or take positive steps toward Him.

3. Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to do so. God tells unregenerate man to choose Him.

4. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to seek Him.

5. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to know God by telling him to turn to Him and to know Him.

6. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to trust God.

7. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man retains the ability to choose God by telling man to choose to come to Him.

8. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to repent and turn to God.

9. Scripture proving that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to respond favorably to God by telling man to call on the Lord.

10. Scripture proves that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to respond favorably to God by telling him to believe.

11. Numerous Scripture verses that prove that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to have faith.

12. The command to teach, instruct, or train fallen men would be absurd if unregenerate men did not have the God-given ability to be instructed or taught in the ways of the Lord.

13. The parables of the hidden treasure and pearl of great price indicate that fallen man has the God-given ability to seek for and find the Kingdom.

14. The many Scripture verses that speak of people resisting, refusing, rejecting, and rebelling against God, communicates to the reader that they could have chosen to do otherwise. Also, the many “if” statements throughout Scripture that are connected with the options set before unregenerate people to choose, show that man has the ability to choose. The very word “if” itself denotes the possibility of options and the ability to choose. “If” statements are always conditional and cannot convey forced or preordained conditions.

15. The following verse in 1 Corinthians 2 indicates that “your faith could rest on God’s power, or it could rest on men’s wisdom. Surely if a faith could rest on God’s power, then according to Calvinism, it must be a genuine faith directly given by God and could certainly never rest on men’s wisdom. But instead, as this verse shows us, “your” faith can be placed in men or in Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:4-5
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
And then let’s add one more thing:

16. Along with knowing everything that is, God also knows all things possible. The knowledge of what could have been or could be is proof of man’s ability to choose and that foreknowledge is not causative. Free actions do not take place because they are foreseen, but they are foreseen because they will take place.

Matthew11:21
Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Matthew 11:23
And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.

Isaiah 48:18-19

If only you had paid attention to my commands, your peace would have been like a river, your righteousness like the waves of the sea. 19 Your descendants would have been like the sand, your children like its numberless grains; their name would never be cut off nor destroyed from before me.

Scripture shows that God knows the consequences of all possible decisions, but He does not directly cause through regeneration a person to make one decision over another. The choice is yours.

gmm4j · Aug 16, 2012

And then if you wanted...

You could add the Faith Precedes Regeneration Verses that I've presented in other posts.

And, you could always tell us why satan has a present day involvement in preventing a person from being saved by taking the Word from an unregenerate person's heart when he supposedly is not able to receive the Word into his heart in the first place.

gmm4j · Aug 22, 2012

Let’s officially add a few more things to the list we are developing that supports Total Ability:

So, let’s continue:

1. Examples from Genesis to Revelation with absolutely no indication that unregenerated
man had to be regenerated in order to believe.

2. Numerous verses that show that God is not thedirect cause in makingmen choose Him
or take positive steps toward Him.

3. Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him
to do so. God tells unregenerate man to choose Him.

4. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by
telling him to seek Him.

5. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to know God by
telling him to turn to Him and to know Him.

6. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by
telling him to trust God.

7. NumerousScripture verses proving that fallen man retains the ability to choose God by
telling man to choose to come to Him.

8. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by
telling him to repent and turn to God.

9. Scripture proving that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to respond
favorably to God by telling man to call on the Lord.

10. Scripture proves that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to respond
favorably to God by telling him to believe.

11. Numerous Scripture verses that prove that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the
ability to have faith.

12. The command to teach, instruct, or train fallen men would be absurd if unregenerate men
did not have the God-given ability to be instructed or taught in the ways of the Lord.

13. The parables of the hidden treasure and pearl of great price indicate that fallen man
has the God-given ability to seek for and find the Kingdom.

14. The many Scripture verses that speak of people resisting, refusing, rejecting, and
rebelling against God, communicates to the reader that they could have chosen
to do otherwise. Also, the many “if” statements throughout Scripture that are
connected with the options set before unregenerate people to choose, show that man
has the ability to choose. The very word “if” itself denotes the possibility of options
and the ability to choose. “If” statements are always conditional and cannot convey
forced or preordained conditions.

15. The following verses in 1 Corinthians 2:4-5 indicates that “your faith could rest on God’s
power, or it could rest on men’swisdom. Surely if a faith could rest on God’s
power, then according to Calvinism, it must be a genuine faith directly given by God
and could certainly never rest on men’s wisdom. But instead, as this verse shows us,
“your” faith can be placed in men or in Christ.

16. Along with knowing everything that is, God also knows all things possible. The knowledge
of what could have been or could be is proof of man’s ability to choose and that
foreknowledge is not causative. Free actions do not take place because they are
foreseen, but they are foreseen because they will take place (Is. 48:18-19, Mt. 11:21,
23)

17. A number of verses indicating that faith precedes regeneration, meaning that God has
given unregenerate man the inherent ability to believe.

John 1:12-13
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

The order presented in these verses is:

1. Belief (those who believed)
2. Right to become children of God / Born of God (Regeneration)

John 20:30-31
Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

The order presented in this verse is:

1. Recorded miracles
2. Belief
3. By belief - New life (Regeneration)

It would have been foolish of John to write, “that by believing you may have life” if it were by having new life that they would believe.

1 Peter 1:22-25
Now that you have purified yourselves byobeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For, "All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, 25 but the word of the Lord stands forever." And this is the word that was preached to you.

The word of God is imperishable seed that must be received/believed in order to bring about regeneration. Again the order is:

1. Word preached
2. Word believed
3. Born again (Regeneration) through the Word

The answers to the apostle Paul’s rhetorical questions in the book of Galatians also seem to prove that belief precedes regeneration.

Galatians 3:2,5
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law,or by believing what you heard?… 5 Does God give you his Spiritandwork miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

The correct answer to the first question is that I received the Spirit when I believed what I heard.

1.Recipient hears Word
2.Recipient believes Word
3.Spirit is received

The correct answer to the second question is that God gave me His Spirit because I believed what I heard.

1.Recipient hears Word
2.Recipient believes Word
3.Spirit is given

Acts 15:9
He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

Their hearts were made pure (new) by faith. It does not say that faith was made by or a result of pure hearts. Pure hearts are made by having faith first. Again the order is:

1.Faith
2.Pure (new) hearts.

Galatians 3:26
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

Through faith you are born into the family. You become a spiritual son by faith.

1.Faith
2.Regeneration into a spiritual son.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

1. Word of truth
2. Belief in truth (assumed)
3. Birth (regeneration)

1 Timothy 1:16
But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

1. Belief
2. Life (regeneration)

Side note: New eternal life begins with the new birth / life (regeneration), unless you believe that a new creation can cease to be a new creature in Christ and be in need of being born again again?

Ephesians 1:13 describes the order in this way,

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in himwith a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

1.Hear the Word of truth
2.Believe (having believed) the Word of truth.
3.Included in Christ / Sealed by the Spirit

Acts 11:18
When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."

1. Repentance to…
2. Life (regeneration)

1 John 5:10-12
Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

How can you have life (regeneration)(the Son) without belief? How can you have life before you have the Son? If you do not have the Son by first being united to Him by faith, then you do not have life (regeneration).

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Life (regeneration) is only “in” Christ, not “outside of”, and “prior to” Christ.

gmm4j · Aug 22, 2012

Let’s continue:

1. Examples from Genesis to Revelation with absolutely no indication that unregenerated
man had to be regenerated in order to believe.

2. Numerous verses that show that God is not thedirect cause in makingmen choose Him
or take positive steps toward Him.

3. Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him
to do so. God tells unregenerate man to choose Him.

4. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by
telling him to seek Him.

5. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to know God by
telling him to turn to Him and to know Him.

6. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by
telling him to trust God.

7. NumerousScripture verses proving that fallen man retains the ability to choose God by
telling man to choose to come to Him.

8. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by
telling him to repent and turn to God.

9. Scripture proving that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to respond
favorably to God by telling man to call on the Lord.

10. Scripture proves that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to respond
favorably to God by telling him to believe.

11. Numerous Scripture verses that prove that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the
ability to have faith.

12. The command to teach, instruct, or train fallen men would be absurd if unregenerate men
did not have the God-given ability to be instructed or taught in the ways of the Lord.

13. The parables of the hidden treasure and pearl of great price indicate that fallen man
has the God-given ability to seek for and find the Kingdom.

14. The many Scripture verses that speak of people resisting, refusing, rejecting, and
rebelling against God, communicates to the reader that they could have chosen
to do otherwise. Also, the many “if” statements throughout Scripture that are
connected with the options set before unregenerate people to choose, show that man
has the ability to choose. The very word “if” itself denotes the possibility of options
and the ability to choose. “If” statements are always conditional and cannot convey
forced or preordained conditions.

15. The following verses in 1 Corinthians 2:4-5 indicates that “your faith could rest on God’s
power, or it could rest on men’swisdom. Surely if a faith could rest on God’s
power, then according to Calvinism, it must be a genuine faith directly given by God
and could certainly never rest on men’s wisdom. But instead, as this verse shows us,
“your” faith can be placed in men or in Christ.

16. Along with knowing everything that is, God also knows all things possible. The knowledge
of what could have been or could be is proof of man’s ability to choose and that
foreknowledge is not causative. Free actions do not take place because they are
foreseen, but they are foreseen because they will take place (Is. 48:18-19, Mt. 11:21,
23)

17. A number of verses indicating that faith precedes regeneration, meaning that God has
given unregenerate man the inherent ability to believe.

Then, we can ask…

18. Why does satan have a present day involvement in preventing a person from being saved
by taking the Word from an unregenerate person's heart when he supposedly is not
able to receive the Word into his heart in the first place.

Luke 8:11-12 says,
This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

We are not told that the non-elect unregenerate person rejects the word of God due to his fallen sin nature (which I would understand), but we are clearly told here that the devil comes and takes the Word from their hearts, so they will not believe and be saved. This seems to show that they have the ability to receive the Word, but the devil is actively involved in keeping the Word from taking root. Why would satan have to have a present-day involvement “takes away the word from their hearts, so…” if unregenerate man was totally unable to receive the Word into his heart in the first place?

Again, this is more proof that unregenerate man has the ability to believe.

gmm4j · Aug 22, 2012

Let’s add one more point of evidence to the list:

1. Examples from Genesis to Revelation with absolutely no indication that unregenerated man had to be regenerated in order to believe.

2. Numerous verses that show that God is not thedirect cause in makingmen choose Him or take positive steps toward Him.

3. Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to do so. God tells unregenerate man to choose Him.

4. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to seek Him.

5. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to know God by telling him to turn to Him and to know Him.

6. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to trust God.

7. NumerousScripture verses proving that fallen man retains the ability to choose God by telling man to choose to come to Him.

8. Numerous Scripture verses proving that fallen man still retains the ability to choose God by telling him to repent and turn to God.

9. Scripture proving that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to respond favorably to God by telling man to call on the Lord.

10. Scripture proves that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to respond favorably to God by telling him to believe.

11. Numerous Scripture verses that prove that by the grace of God fallen man still retains the ability to have faith.

12. The command to teach, instruct, or train fallen men would be absurd if unregenerate men did not have the God-given ability to be instructed or taught in the ways of the Lord.

13. The parables of the hidden treasure and pearl of great price indicate that fallen man has the God-given ability to seek for and find the Kingdom.

14. The many Scripture verses that speak of people resisting, refusing, rejecting, and rebelling against God, communicates to the reader that they could have chosen to do otherwise. Also, the many “if” statements throughout Scripture that are connected with the options set before unregenerate people to choose, show that man has the ability to choose. The very word “if” itself denotes the possibility of options and the ability to choose. “If” statements are always conditional and cannot convey forced or preordained conditions.

15. The following verses in 1 Corinthians 2:4-5 indicates that “your faith could rest on God’s power, or it could rest on men’swisdom. Surely if a faith could rest on God’s power, then according to Calvinism, it must be a genuine faith directly given by God and could certainly never rest on men’s wisdom. But instead, as this verse shows us,
“your” faith can be placed in men or in Christ.

16. Along with knowing everything that is, God also knows all things possible. The knowledge of what could have been or could be is proof of man’s ability to choose and that foreknowledge is not causative. Free actions do not take place because they are foreseen, but they are foreseen because they will take place (Is. 48:18-19, Mt. 11:21, 23)

17. A number of verses indicating that faith precedes regeneration, meaning that God has given unregenerate man the inherent ability to believe.

18. In Luke 8:11-12, we are clearly told here that the devil comes and takes the Word from their hearts, so they will not believe and be saved. This indicates that unregenerate men have the ability to receive the Word, but the devil is actively involved in keeping the Word from taking root. Why would satan have to have a present-day involvement “takes away the word from their hearts, so…” if unregenerate man was totally unable to receive the Word into his heart in the first place? Again, this is more proof that unregenerate man has the ability to believe.

And then add to that:

19. There are many Scriptural references where God says, “Because you (man)” have responded positively in some way that the benefits of His grace are bestowed. In these instances, there is never an indication that God is the cause of these men’s positive responses by regenerating them. Instead of acting unconditionally, God reveals to us by using the term “because” that He many times chooses to act or interact with humanity based upon conditions. Yes, according to the Word of God, our cause can produce God’s effect. Does that somehow make us sovereign over God? Of course it doesn’t. God sovereignly chooses to respond to our free will decisions, which include unregenerate man’s ability to believe. God does this without impinging on our free will. If He were to impinge on our free will, He would become the direct cause and He could never say, “Because you”, or “Because ??” anything other than, “Because I.” Instead many more times than space will allow (I’ve counted at least 70 times just from Genesis to Jeremiah alone) God reveals to us that He responds based on conditions set or caused by men. Because you… Because of you… Because of them… Because I found you… Here are just a few examples:

Gen 6:13-14 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.

Gen 22:15-18 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

Ex 1:21 And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.

Ex 33:17 And the LORD said to Moses, "I will do the very thing you have asked, because I am pleased with you and I know you by name."

Num 14:24-25 But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it.

Josh 6:17-18 Only Rahab the prostitute and all who are with her in her house shall be spared, because she hid the spies we sent.

Josh 14:14-15 So Hebron has belonged to Caleb son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite ever since, because he followed the LORD, the God of Israel, wholeheartedly.

Judg 6:7-8 When the Israelites cried to the LORD because of Midian, 8 he sent them a prophet, who said, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says:

1 Kings 3:6 Solomon answered, "You have shown great kindness to your servant, my father David, because he was faithful to you and righteous and upright in heart. You have continued this great kindness to him and have given him a son to sit on his throne this very day.

2 Kings 10:30 The LORD said to Jehu, "Because you have done well in accomplishing what is right in my eyes and have done to the house of Ahab all I had in mind to do, your descendants will sit on the throne of Israel to the fourth generation."

1 Chron 5:20-21 They were helped in fighting them, and God handed the Hagrites and all their allies over to them, because they cried out to him during the battle. He answered their prayers, because they trusted in him.

2 Chron 12:12 Because Rehoboam humbled himself, the LORD's anger turned from him, and he was not totally destroyed. Indeed, there was some good in Judah.

2 Chron 19:2-3 Jehu the seer, the son of Hanani, went out to meet him and said to the king, "Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the LORD? Because of this, the wrath of the LORD is upon you. 3 There is, however, some good in you, for you have rid the land of the Asherah poles and have set your heart on seeking God."

2 Chron 34:27 Because your heart was responsive and you humbled yourself before God when you heard what he spoke against this place and its people, and because you humbled yourself before me and tore your robes and wept in my presence, I have heard you, declares the LORD.

gmm4j · Aug 23, 2012

Let’s add another point, #20.

20. Paul ministered as if people had the Total Ability to believe. Paul would not have tried to persuade people, if he had thought they did not have the ability to be persuaded. Persuasion would not be necessary if Calvinism were true. In the following verses it states that some were convinced by what Paul had said, not that they were convinced by an inner work of the Spirit. Also, notice the effort Paul puts forth in order to persuade people to believe in Christ.

Acts 28:23-24
From morning till evening he explained and declared to them the kingdom of God and tried to convince them about Jesus from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets. 24 Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe.

If the Calvinist’s view of salvation is correct then the only persuading that needs to be done is the inward persuading or “dragging” of the Holy Spirit. The verse above would have read, “the elect were convinced by what he said, but the non-elect did not believe for they could not.” Paul however, felt very differently.

Acts 20:26-27
Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.

Paul seemed to think that if he failed to proclaim the gospel to individuals, then their blood would be upon him. This could only be true if redemption was available to everyone and Calvinism is incorrect.

Paul understood that the gospel message itself had the power to produce faith and he felt compelled to share it, even persuasively, with all people.

Acts 19:8-9
Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9 But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way.

He didn’t apathetically attempt to persuade the believer. He labored to persuade those who resisted his message. He didn’t take the approach that he would simply share the gospel and those who were elect would receive it, while those who were non-elect would reject it and then move on. No, he proclaimed it to them; he reasoned with them, he pleaded with them, he explained it to them, he argued with them, he became like them, he labored among them, and he did whatever he could to persuade all men. Paul believed all people had the ability to be persuaded; therefore he attempted to persuade them by all means possible.

1 Corinthians 9:19-22
Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.

Paul’s desire was to win as many people to the Lord as possible, by whatever means possible. Paul’s position wouldn’t make sense if Christ’s redeeming work were intended to save only a select few predetermined by God. His method of spreading the gospel is in keeping with someone who believes that salvation is available to everyone, and that everyone has the ability to believe.

Acts 17:2-4
he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ," he said. 4 Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.

Acts 17:11-12
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. 12 Many of the Jews believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.

Acts 18:4
Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

Acts 18:13
This man," they charged, "is persuading the people to worship God in ways contrary to the law.

Acts 18:19
He himself went into the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews

Romans 15:15-16
because of the grace God gave me 16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

According to Calvinism, Christ did not die for the salvation of everyone so why would Paul try to persuade everyone? And, persuation could never cause someone to believe, so why try? It would be foolish.

Colossians 1:28-29
We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. 29 To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me.

gmm4j · Jan 2, 2013

What do you think?

oworm · Jan 2, 2013

gmm4j said:
What do you think?

Long winded verbosity

gmm4j · Jan 2, 2013

oworm said:
Long winded verbosity

Genesis to Revelation.

janxharris · Jan 8, 2013

gmm4j said:
Genesis to Revelation.

Excellent post gmm4j.
I was particularly impressed by your initial point about Adam continuing to know God after the fall.

The sheer weight of your argument will do the trick

I haven't read all you wrote......yet

ImaginaryDay · Jan 8, 2013

gmm4j said:
What do you think?

Can't wait to see you take on 'ULIP'! LOL!

janxharris · Jan 8, 2013

apostolic34 said:
Can't wait to see you take on 'ULIP'! LOL!

Please...no!

Okay then gmm4j...we give you permission...

BBAS 64 · Jan 28, 2013

Big rat hole...

I was told that this thread contained "This is what Scripture teaches about man's total ability"

But alas the words that explictly say that man has the abilty to come are not here...

Jesus words stand

No man Can come to me....

They look for contridictions and there are none.

gmm4j · Jan 28, 2013

Isaiah 55:6-7
Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

Matthew 11:28-29
Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

BBAS 64 · Jan 29, 2013

gmm4j said:
Isaiah 55:6-7
Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

Matthew 11:28-29
Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Good Day, GMM

These are commands or requests, but the validity of the command or request are not depenant on ones abilty to carry them out.

No man Can come to me.
The command to come is valid.

Love the Lord they God with all thine heart, valid command.

It is still valid even though you are unable to do so.

I belive this error was addressed long ago:

God command what thou will, and grant what thou command.

In Him,

Bill

gmm4j · Jan 29, 2013

Isaiah 55:6-7
Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

"While He may be found" indicates there is a time when He is near and can be found by the wicked.

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