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John S

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It doesn't matter. He was God in HUMAN form.
What is the name of the religion? - Christian or being Christ-like - Following His words and examples, whether we are ONLY human beings.
If you won't follow this, then why follow ANYTHING that He said, did, or didn't do? You CAN'T follow what you want to follow and ignore what you don't want to follow. Your argument is bogus.

As the human being that He was, what would He do if He was being robbed of His money?
 
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IisJustMe

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IJM - So what would a humble yet strong 1st Century Jewish man have done if He were being robbed? It's a simple question.
And I gave you a simple answer. He would defend himself, his family, his property. You want gory details? Imagine them for yourself.

And by the way, that's the only thing you can say regarding my lengthy post on this subject? Hmm ... interesting.
 
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dogs4thewin

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It doesn't matter. He was God in HUMAN form.
What is the name of the religion? - Christian or being Christ-like - Following His words and examples, whether we are ONLY human beings.
If you won't follow this, then why follow ANYTHING that He said, did, or didn't do? You CAN'T follow what you want to follow and ignore what you don't want to follow. Your argument is bogus.

As the human being that He was, what would He do if He was being robbed of His money?
Also, sometimes particularly in the rural areas people use guns to protect themselves/animals/property from ANIMALS. For example, I live in a rural area and my Sunday school teacher had a bobcat in her yard, so she gets the gun from the house to shoot it should it come closer. Also, remember that the more weapons are around the less likely a Christian or anyone is to have to use it. For example, in Switzerland you MUST keep firearms in your house and yet they have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. In states that have tougher gun laws including the capital they have more shootings ECT than anywhere else that has looser gun laws. Matter of a fact, there HAVE been cases where citizens (in areas where it is legal) have actually saved the life of law enforcement by shooting. If law enforcement were the only ones that had guns would that be able to happen? Let me asks you this, what would you do if say my grandfather a deacon in the church, raised his children in a Christian home (going to church each week ECT) If you knew him or my uncles (both own firearms and both are deacons in the same church as my grandparents raised their children in the same way they were raised. Or even their sons all four of whom I am fairly certain own firearms ( all adults) If you knew them and a robber or someone who intended to murder you and they shot them and thus saved you would you be mad at them. None of them are or have ever been in law enforcement or the active armed services (grandfather served in the RESERVES when he was younger but never had to actually fight.)
 
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John S

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IJM - YES - I want to know what you consider to be "gory details". I don't know what you are thinking. My guesses might very well be wrong.

I'm Sorry - but I don't read long dissertations. That's why I look for short simple answers.


ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST - If you truly are "all or nothing", then you would also disapprove of guns - like He does.


There was a shooting in a Sikh Temple today.
 
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dogs4thewin

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IJM - YES - I want to know what you consider to be "gory details". I don't know what you are thinking. My guesses might very well be wrong.

I'm Sorry - but I don't read long dissertations. That's why I look for short simple answers.


ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST - If you truly are "all or nothing", then you would also disapprove of guns - like He does.


There was a shooting in a Sikh Temple today.
then I am not all or nothing or either you are wrong. either way it is clear that both of us are stubborn as mules. What does the temple shooting have to do with the fact that Christians have guns? by the way, I do beleive He would defend someone.
 
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ebedmelech

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It doesn't matter. He was God in HUMAN form.
What is the name of the religion? - Christian or being Christ-like - Following His words and examples, whether we are ONLY human beings.
If you won't follow this, then why follow ANYTHING that He said, did, or didn't do? You CAN'T follow what you want to follow and ignore what you don't want to follow. Your argument is bogus.

As the human being that He was, what would He do if He was being robbed of His money?
That situation didn't present itself so that would be speculative.

But again...did He not tell his disciples this:

Luke 22:
35 And He said to them, “ When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.”

36 And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.

37 For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘ And He was numbered with transgressors’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.”

38 They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”

Now, I ask you again...why did Jesus tell His disciples to get swords?
 
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IisJustMe

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IJM - YES - I want to know what you consider to be "gory details". I don't know what you are thinking. My guesses might very well be wrong.
You have said Jesus wouldn't own a weapon. I have said that, prior to His revealing Himself as God, He would most certainly defend Himself, His family, His possessions. The primary definition of "defend" is "to ward off attack from; guard against assault or injury (usually followed by "from" or "against"); as in "The sentry defended the gate against sudden attack." For His part, I am certain that He would use no more force than necessary, meeting the man as an equal, doing what was necessary to that defense. The interesting thing about it that you will now claim "Jesus would never do that!" I submit to you, you have know idea what Jesus, prior to revealing Himself as God the Son, would do not only to protect His own, but to avoid giving indication that He was no ordinary man prior to His "appointed time."

I'm sure you can imagine how a first century man would defend Himself. If not, then any description I give you would be a wasted effort, would it not? You have no imagination with which to grasp the description. That is, after all, what you are saying. When I use the word "defend" it is a word sufficient to understand what He would do. End of discussion.
 
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dogs4thewin

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You have said Jesus wouldn't own a weapon. I have said that, prior to His revealing Himself as God, He would most certainly defend Himself, His family, His possessions. The primary definition of "defend" is "to ward off attack from; guard against assault or injury (usually followed by "from" or "against"); as in "The sentry defended the gate against sudden attack." For His part, I am certain that He would use no more force than necessary, meeting the man as an equal, doing what was necessary to that defense. The interesting thing about it that you will now claim "Jesus would never do that!" I submit to you, you have know idea what Jesus, prior to revealing Himself as God the Son, would do not only to protect His own, but to avoid giving indication that He was no ordinary man prior to His "appointed time."

I'm sure you can imagine how a first century man would defend Himself. If not, then any description I give you would be a wasted effort, would it not? You have no imagination with which to grasp the description. That is, after all, what you are saying. When I use the word "defend" it is a word sufficient to understand what He would do. End of discussion.
good point about not giving Himself away.
 
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Archivist

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ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST - If you truly are "all or nothing", then you would also disapprove of guns - like He does.

You mean like you do. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that Jesus disapproves of guns.

There was a shooting in a Sikh Temple today.

Yes. Very sad. We need to keep all those people in our prayers.
 
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TheChristianSurvivalGuide

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IJM - HOW would He have defended Himself?
BTW - I NEVER meant to imply that I considered Jesus to be weak.
When we turn the other cheek to get punched, it is because we are to remain in charge of the situation.
When we are forced to walk a second mile, it is because we are supposed to remain in charge of the situation.



All or Nothing - That Jewish woman of about 30 A.D. DID commit a crime worthy of death.

Suppose Jesus owned a small carpentry business today. Would He have a gun in His office?

Please describe how to "remain in charge of the situation" when somebody has a gun pointed at your child and says they are going to make you watch while they rape them.

This has happened.
 
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John S

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IJM - Since you refuse to answer this simple question, you are forcing me to TRY to read your mind. Apparently, you are saying that Jesus would use violence of some sort to defend Himself.

CSG - How do you think that Jesus would have handled this? Would He have used violence?
 
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Rion

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Thank Goodness for the National Rifle Association (NRA). Because of this organization, James Holmes was prohibited from bringing automatic weapons into a movie theater. George Zimmerman didn't carry a gun either. Because of this organization, guns are prohibited in America.

Oh wait. I'm Sorry. Those aren't accurate statements.

In so, so many ways...


Since Jesus Christ NEVER owned or used a weapon, then neither should ANY of His followers.
It has been awhile, but if you know my opinions, then you already know that I believe that the NRA is an antichristian organization.

Luke 22:
35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”

Also keep in mind that it mentions several soldiers who were converted. I'm pretty sure they weren't allowed to ditch their weapons after that. In fact, it makes no mention of anyone suggesting they should have.
 
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dragongunner

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Yes, and police officers used guns to stop the killer.


An a few days ago a citizen saved a police mans life by shooting the bad guy shooting at the cop, the cop thanked him for saving his life.

Hope neither belonged to those anti christ NRA people.....pun intended.

So I wonder since Jesus didn't own a house an property....should we all sell out to be more like him? He didn't have worldly goods....like computers an never said it was ok to have them.....perhaps we should sell these too?
 
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John S

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CSG - There is NOTHIING in the Gospels to show that He would have used violence - unless you can show those verses.
NOW it is your turn. How would the HUMAN Jesus have handled that situation?

Rion - PLEASE show me the verses that showed where Jesus owned or used a weapon. He is the one that I pray to - NOT the Apostles.

Archivist - As I have already said, unfortunately, law enforcement and the military still need to use weapons. If you are not in law enforcement or the miliary, then you should not own or use a weapon.

Dragongunner - Your statement is completely inaccurate. After the death of His father, He owned the family house, it's possessions, and the family "carpentry" business. I think that it is safe to say that He got paid for His work. If alive today, I'm sure that He would own a computer, a car, and whatever else we use today - except weapons.
... and James Holmes ALSO carried guns around with him.
 
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dogs4thewin

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CSG - There is NOTHIING in the Gospels to show that He would have used violence - unless you can show those verses.
NOW it is your turn. How would the HUMAN Jesus have handled that situation?

Rion - PLEASE show me the verses that showed where Jesus owned or used a weapon. He is the one that I pray to - NOT the Apostles.

Archivist - As I have already said, unfortunately, law enforcement and the military still need to use weapons. If you are not in law enforcement or the miliary, then you should not own or use a weapon.

Dragongunner - Your statement is completely inaccurate. After the death of His father, He owned the family house, it's possessions, and the family "carpentry" business. I think that it is safe to say that He got paid for His work. If alive today, I'm sure that He would own a computer, a car, and whatever else we use today - except weapons.
... and James Holmes ALSO carried guns around with him.
The Apostles however followed Jesus' TEACHINGS so if He allowed them to have weapons then why can we not. NO where does it say He owned a weapon, but you will also not find anywhere where He says His followers cannot. There are many topics of which Jesus did not speak directly or items He did not own. Does that mean they we cannot own them? For example, never once did Jesus ever take medication does that mean that I cannot take my seizure medication or be on anti-depressants? No Luke was a DOCTOR and wrote both about Jesus' time on Earth and when He went to Heaven and the events following that.
 
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TheChristianSurvivalGuide

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CSG - There is NOTHIING in the Gospels to show that He would have used violence - unless you can show those verses.
NOW it is your turn. How would the HUMAN Jesus have handled that situation?

Rion - PLEASE show me the verses that showed where Jesus owned or used a weapon. He is the one that I pray to - NOT the Apostles.

Archivist - As I have already said, unfortunately, law enforcement and the military still need to use weapons. If you are not in law enforcement or the miliary, then you should not own or use a weapon.

Dragongunner - Your statement is completely inaccurate. After the death of His father, He owned the family house, it's possessions, and the family "carpentry" business. I think that it is safe to say that He got paid for His work. If alive today, I'm sure that He would own a computer, a car, and whatever else we use today - except weapons.
... and James Holmes ALSO carried guns around with him.

John, there's nothing In the scriptures to describe what Christ would do in any way. However, that wasn't the question.

I asked you, JohnS, what you would do if a man had a gun pointed at your own child and said they were going to make you watch as they raped your child.

What would JohnS do in that situation?
 
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Rion

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Rion - PLEASE show me the verses that showed where Jesus owned or used a weapon. He is the one that I pray to - NOT the Apostles.

Despite knowing how silly your request is, I'll play along:

Since Christ is God, technically, he used it a lot.

Otherwise, I'll just point out that, according to Revelations, Jesus isn't shy when it comes to using a sword:

Revelation 19:
21 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

I can be silly too. ^_^
 
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John S

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A or N - Since I doubt that there were alot of medications around in 30 AD, I sincerely doubt that He would have a problem with you taking yours.

CSG - Unless you pray to me, what I would do is meaningless. What Jesus would do is the ONLY thing that matters - and I don't have ANY proof that He would use violence.

Rion - If you can show me the verses in the Gospels where He used violence, owned or used a gun as a human being, then I will agree with you. Since you can't, then you can consider EVERYTHING that I say as silly.
Since He NEVER owned or used a weapon, then neither should any of His followers. TRYING to be like Christ is the very definition of the word Christian.
 
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