Chick-fil-a fallout

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MoreCoffee

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Why the h*ll does everyone focus on the gay agenda anyway? I'm a fornicator and a sinner, may God have mercy on me. Like I have any excuse to judge anyone else.
I am not sure there is such a thing as a gay agenda but a lot of people think they know exactly what it allegedly is.

You are right, none of us is without sin, we lie, we envy, we act and speak hypocritically, so when people condemn gay people or condemn same sex couples - funding organisations that produce anti-gay media of all sorts - they must be very sure that they know what is wrong with gay people and need not worry too much about what might be wrong with their perceptions. There's a short passage in the bible about it, saying, "Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye." (Mat 7:1-5)
 
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Maximus

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How is it "passing judgment" on any particular individual to take a stand against sin in general?

How convenient it is to avoid controversy and possible persecution with the excuse that one is "not passing judgment"!

We're supposed to be the salt of the world, not its sugar.
 
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MoreCoffee

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It is passing judgement on a group of individuals who are identifiable by their sexuality, that's what this thread is all about isn't it? It's about supporting or opposing Chick Fil-A in the context of the owner's funding of anti-gay groups and the comments made by the owner on the matter of same sex marriage.

The quote from the Lord's sermon on the mount is not an excuse to avoid controversy; it is a call to hesitate about jumping on a band wagon of condemnation. Pause, give the matter thought ...
 
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StThomasMore

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I am not sure there is such a thing as a gay agenda but a lot of people think they know exactly what it allegedly is.

You are right, none of us is without sin, we lie, we envy, we act and speak hypocritically, so when people condemn gay people or condemn same sex couples - funding organisations that produce anti-gay media of all sorts - they must be very sure that they know what is wrong with gay people and need not worry too much about what might be wrong with their perceptions. There's a short passage in the bible about it, saying, "Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye." (Mat 7:1-5)


How is not tolerating sinful living a form of judging?

Judging is when you assume someone is going to hell. oR assume someone is inherently bad immediately off the bat without knowing them. Or assuming to take the authority upon yourself to make decisions for other people without any credibility. Apostles like St. Paul And Peter and their writings would be pages and pages of judging others based on your definition of it. Same with prophets like Moses, who made quite some harsh judgements during his time.

I don't think Jesus would contradict his apostles or the prophets. And since the bible speaks out against sin, speaking out against sin would not really be judging someone. Other wise the bible wouldn't use words like "rebuke" and "exhort" like in the epistle of Timothy.

There is no way a person can be 100% fully tolerant of everything. He would cease to be human and would be unable to make normal decisions without trying to differentiate between things. Everyone has a mixture of things they tolerate and don't tolerate. And we have to remember we are talking about something that both the OT and the NT condemn 100%. Its not like people are making blind assumptions here.
 
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StThomasMore

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I think you are confused on what the bible means by judging.What is possibly more amazing than the fact that so many people quote this verse and the concept of not judging, is that so many people could get the real meaning so completely wrong. This is especially true since the context makes it clear what Jesus meant by these words. When Jesus said that we should not judge unless we be judged also, he was not saying that we are to never judge if behavior is sin or not. What he was doing was giving us a caution to make sure that we are willing to be judged by the same standard of judgment. This verse is not a warning against judging an action. It is a warning against self deception and hypocrisy. The way we know this is the same way that we usually know what the Bible teaches. We look at the context. The verse that immediately follow helps explain what Jesus was saying. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:2 In other words, if you are going to say that what someone else is doing is wrong then you better be prepared to be judged by the same standard. If you don’t want your life to be scrutinized, then don’t judge otherss. If you can stand the scrutiny then go ahead.

You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. Matthew 7:3-5

Meaning before we preach christian morality. We must get out own lives straight and in line. After we learn the basics of living a christian life and learning to live within the confines of the New Testament, we can then begin to help others in all forms of life, whether it be both moral or spiritual.

Before you ever start to tell someone else what is wrong with their life, make sure you take a good look at your own life first. But notice, Jesus does not say, take the log out of your own eye and don’t say anything about the speck in the others persons eye. That would be the result of never judging anyone about anything. Instead Jesus says that after you take care of your own stuff, then go and help your brother. So you are to help then with their issue but only once you have done a personal spiritual check to make sure that you are right with God.

So a fornicater telling other people to not fornicate would be judging. A glutton telling other people to not enjoy food would be judging. A murderer telling others that they are murderers would be judging. Since they are being hypocritical with the standard they are using.

Hope that clears things up
 
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MoreCoffee

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I think you are confused on what the bible means by judging.
You are welcome to explain the passage for me.

Footnote: Judge not. As the context reveals, this does not prohibit all types of judging (v. 16). There is a righteous kind of judgment we are supposed to exercise with careful discernment (John 7:24). Censorious, hypocritical, self-righteous, or other kinds of unfair judgments are forbidden; but in order to fulfill the commandments that follow, it is necessary to discern dogs and swine (v. 6) from one’s own brethren (vv. 3–5). (The MacArthur Study Bible. 1997)

[1–12] In Matthew 7:1 Matthew returns to the basic traditional material of the sermon (Luke 6:37–38,41–42). The governing thought is the correspondence between conduct toward one’s fellows and God’s conduct toward the one so acting.

This is not a prohibition against recognizing the faults of others, which would be hardly compatible with Mat 7:5,6 but against passing judgment in a spirit of arrogance, forgetful of one’s own faults. (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine.The New American Bible)
 
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Tomas de Torquemada

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the gay agenda is pushed by the gays. They are the ones looking to change the status quo. Also, btw, its not some small eccentricity that will be mostly be forgotten if they manage to queer marriage. Its been 8 years since they pulled it off in mass, and here are some of the results:

source


Anyone who thinks that same-sex "marriage" is a benign eccentricity which won't affect the average person should consider what it has done to Massachusetts since 2004. It's become a hammer to force the acceptance and normalization of homosexuality on everyone. The slippery slope is real. New radical demands never cease. What has happened in the last several years is truly frightening.

....

Education:
At my own children's high school there was a school-wide assembly to celebrate same-sex "marriage" in early December 2003. It featured an array of speakers, including teachers at the school who announced that they would be "marrying" their same-sex partners and starting families, either through adoption or artificial insemination. Literature on same-sex marriage - how it is now a normal part of society - was handed out to the students.

Within months it was brought into the middle schools. In September 2004, an 8th-grade teacher in Brookline, Mass., told National Public Radio that the marriage ruling had opened up the door for teaching homosexuality. "In my mind, I know that, 'OK, this is legal now.' If somebody wants to challenge me, I'll say, 'Give me a break. It's legal now,'" she told NPR. She added that she now discusses gay sex with her students as explicitly as she desires. For example, she said she tells the kids that lesbians can have vaginal intercourse using sex toys.

By the following year it was in elementary school curricula - with hostility toward parents who disagreed. Kindergartners in Lexington, Mass. were given copies of a picture book, Who's in a Family?, telling them that same-sex couples are just another kind of family, just like their own parents. When David Parker - parent of a kindergartner - calmly refused to leave a school meeting unless officials agreed to notify him when discussing homosexuality or transgenderism with his son, the school had him arrested and jailed overnight.
...


Think about that: Because same-sex marriage is "legal," federal judges have ruled that the schools now have a duty to portray homosexual relationships as normal to children, despite what parents think or believe!

...


As a result, many more children in Massachusetts appear to be self-identifying as "gay." According to the Massachusetts Youth Risk Behavior Survey, given to students in high schools across the state, between 2005 and 2009 both the percentage of kids "identifying as gay" and who had same-sex contact rose by approximately 50%. Although this bi-annual survey is unscientific and largely unreliable, it still shows a disturbing trend among those students who chose to answer the questions in this way. (At a minimum, it implies that these answers are being encouraged.)...The schools have already moved on to normalizing transgenderism (including cross-dressing and sex changes).
...


The STD test required to obtain a marriage license was eliminated five months after same-sex "marriages" began in Massachusetts, by a bill quietly signed by Gov. Mitt Romney. This was despite an increase in syphilis cases and other STDs in homosexual men in Massachusetts at the time (according to the Mass. Dept. of Public Health).

A hideously obscene booklet on "gay" practices created by health officials was given out in a high school. Citing "the right to marry" as one of the "important challenges" in a place where "it's a great time to be gay," the Mass. Dept. of Public Health helped the AIDS Action Committee produce The Little Black Book: Queer in the 21st Century. It was given to teens at Brookline High School on April 30, 2005. Among other things, it gives "tips" to boys on how to perform oral sex on other males, touch other males, and how to "safely" have someone urinate on you for sexual pleasure. It even included a directory of bars in Boston where young men meet for anonymous sex.

...


Business and Employment:
All insurance in Massachusetts must now recognize same-sex "married" couples in their coverage. This includes auto insurance, health insurance, life insurance, etc.

Businesses must recognize same-sex "married" couples in all their benefits, activities, etc., regarding both employees and customers.

People can now get fired from their jobs for expressing religious objections to same-sex "marriage." In 2009, a deputy manager at a Brookstone store in Boston was fired from his job for mentioning his belief to another manager who had kept bringing up the subject with him that day. Brookstone's letter of termination (quoted on local TV news) said his comment was "inappropriate" because "in the State of Massachusetts, same-sex marriage is legal."

The wedding industry is required to serve the homosexual community if requested. Wedding photographers, halls, caterers, etc., must accept same-sex marriage events or be held liable for discrimination.

Businesses are often "tested" for tolerance by homosexual activists. Groups of homosexual activists go into restaurants or bars and publicly kiss and fondle each other to test whether the establishment demonstrates sufficient "equality" - now that homosexual marriage is "legal." Then they report "tolerance violators" to authorities, and businesses can be fined and punished. In fact, more and more overt displays of homosexual affection are seen in public places across the state to reinforce "marriage equality."

...

Adoption and Birth Certificates:
In the year after the "gay marriage" ruling, the state's adoption and foster care workers went through a massive indoctrination on "LGBT youth awareness." This included employees and managers at the Mass. Dept. of Social Services. These sessions were run by the radical National Gay and Lesbian Task Force (which once awarded a "Leather Leadership Award" to the owner of a inappropriate contentographic video company). The emphasis was that those working with children must be trained that homosexuality (and transgenderism) are normal. At one session, the trainer announced that the new motto is, "To tolerate is an assault; you have to accept" this behavior.

Adoption agencies have said that 40% of their adoptions are to homosexual couples. Anecdotal reports also indicate that many adoption agencies now favor homosexuals over normal couples.

In 2006 the Massachusetts Department of Social Services (DSS) honored two men "married" to each other as their "Parents of the Year." The men had adopted a baby through DSS (against the wishes of the baby's birth parents). According to news reports, the day after that adoption was final, DSS approached the men about adopting a second child.

...

Harassment of Churches: In 2009 angry homosexual activists terrorized the Park Street Church in Boston while it was holding an ex-gay religious training session inside. They demonstrated next to the doors and windows with signs, screaming homosexual slogans. One of them held a bullhorn against the window outside the meeting, bellowing at the participants inside. Police did nothing to stop them, even though they were standing inside the historic cemetery adjacent to the church.

In 2006 dozens of screaming homosexual activists drowned out the speakers at an outdoor pro-marriage rally in Worcester organized by Catholic Vote, yelling "Bigots" and disgusting chants. Police did not stop them, even though the rally had a permit. When one of the rioters rushed the stage and started shouting, a rally organizer tried to lead her to the side. She subsequently sued that organizer for assault! He went through a four-day trial and was acquitted by a jury. But no charges were filed against any of the rioters.

In 2005 hundreds of homosexual activists terrorized the Tremont Temple Baptist Church with makeshift coffins, screaming obscenities through loudspeakers as the national pro-family group Focus on the Family held a religious conference inside. The crowd was so threatening that attendees could not leave the church for the lunch break. The Boston riot police stood in front of the church doors, but did nothing to disperse the protesters who were also completely blocking the street.

...


Politics:A climate of fear has kept politicians at all levels from disagreeing with or criticizing same-sex marriage since it became "legal." Public officials are afraid of being accused of wanting to "take away rights." Those who support traditional marriage rarely discuss it publicly. And this fear has expanded to suppress any meaningful debate on all homosexual related issues. Additionally, it has brought a feeling of intimidation among pro-family people across the state.

In April 2009, the Chairman of the Mass. Republican Party told a homosexual newspaper that the GOP would no longer oppose "gay marriage." Then Chairman Jennifer Nassour, interviewed on the front page of Bay Windows, assured the gay community that the state GOP would "steer clear of social" issues such as "opposition to same-sex marriage and abortion." The newly elected chairman, Bob Maginn, does not talk about the issue.


---------

We let the cat out of the bag, it won't get back in until the government itself falls.
 
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StThomasMore

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You are welcome to explain the passage for me.

Footnote: Judge not. As the context reveals, this does not prohibit all types of judging (v. 16). There is a righteous kind of judgment we are supposed to exercise with careful discernment (John 7:24). Censorious, hypocritical, self-righteous, or other kinds of unfair judgments are forbidden; but in order to fulfill the commandments that follow, it is necessary to discern dogs and swine (v. 6) from one’s own brethren (vv. 3–5). (The MacArthur Study Bible. 1997)

[1–12] In Matthew 7:1 Matthew returns to the basic traditional material of the sermon (Luke 6:37–38,41–42). The governing thought is the correspondence between conduct toward one’s fellows and God’s conduct toward the one so acting.

This is not a prohibition against recognizing the faults of others, which would be hardly compatible with Mat 7:5,6 but against passing judgment in a spirit of arrogance, forgetful of one’s own faults. (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine.The New American Bible)
When Jesus said that we should not judge unless we be judged also, he was not saying that we are to never judge if behavior is sin or not. What he was doing was giving us a caution to make sure that we are willing to be judged by the same standard of judgment. This verse is not a warning against judging an action. It is a warning against self deception and hypocrisy. The way we know this is the same way that we usually know what the Bible teaches. We look at the context. The verse that immediately follow helps explain what Jesus was saying. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:2 In other words, if you are going to say that what someone else is doing is wrong then you better be prepared to be judged by the same standard. If you don’t want your life to be scrutinized, then don’t judge otherss. If you can stand the scrutiny then go ahead.

You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. Matthew 7:3-5

Meaning before we preach christian morality. We must get out own lives straight and in line. After we learn the basics of living a christian life and learning to live within the confines of the New Testament, we can then begin to help others in all forms of life, whether it be both moral or spiritual.

Before you ever start to tell someone else what is wrong with their life, make sure you take a good look at your own life first. But notice, Jesus does not say, take the log out of your own eye and don’t say anything about the speck in the others persons eye. That would be the result of never judging anyone about anything. Instead Jesus says that after you take care of your own stuff, then go and help your brother. So you are to help then with their issue but only once you have done a personal spiritual check to make sure that you are right with God.

So a fornicater telling other people to not fornicate would be judging. A glutton telling other people to not enjoy food would be judging. A murderer telling others that they are murderers would be judging. Since they are being hypocritical with the standard they are using.

Hope that clears things up
 
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Erose

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nah, just the way I feel when I enter those greasy places. Fat people shoving food in their mouth unnerves me. They seem to represent well the schizophrenic consumerism we have in this country. Especially knowing 900 million people are starving to death in the world. Gluttony is one of the 7 deadly sins that angers me the most for some reason.

So we have here another anti obese-American bigot. Let's just trample on the feelings of those who may have been born that way. I demand that you retract these hate speech comments!!!

Also there is a lot of skinny people when spend time in these establishments as well.
 
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AMDG

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And there is no way a Catholic can "tolerate" the mocking of what marriage is by its redefinition into something it was never intended to be. We all know that sex outside marriage is wrong. And we know that God has already noted that sex between two men or between two women is an abomination. Afterall, people were made to naturally complement each other, and well, it's obvious that that is just not the case.

BTW, why is it okay to be purposely offensive to Catholics and Christians (okay, Orthodox Jews and Muslims too) who follow their faith?

Also just because someone follows his Faith enough to know that the redefinition of marriage to include just same-sex couples having sexual relations is wrong, does not mean that a person does not have compassion (and even respect) for the homosexual in question, it just means that the person follows his Faith enough to know that same-sex marriage is not only wrong, but its impossible.
 
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MoreCoffee

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...

...

Before you ever start to tell someone else what is wrong with their life, make sure you take a good look at your own life first. But notice, Jesus does not say, take the log out of your own eye and don’t say anything about the speck in the others persons eye. That would be the result of never judging anyone about anything. Instead Jesus says that after you take care of your own stuff, then go and help your brother. So you are to help then with their issue but only once you have done a personal spiritual check to make sure that you are right with God.

So a fornicater telling other people to not fornicate would be judging. A glutton telling other people to not enjoy food would be judging. A murderer telling others that they are murderers would be judging. Since they are being hypocritical with the standard they are using.

Hope that clears things up
It leaves me wondering why you think it is okay for a glutton to judge a fornicator? How exactly has the glutton removed the log from his eye to enable the clear vision needed to fix up the fornicator's problem?

I think that the quote in the footnote was helpful, don't you? The one that says, "This is not a prohibition against recognizing the faults of others, which would be hardly compatible with Mat 7:5,6 but against passing judgment in a spirit of arrogance, forgetful of one’s own faults."

Seems to me that blanket condemnation of gay people would be fairly close to being forgetful of one's own faults and might also be arrogant. It seems that addressing a group of people as if you know what each individual in the group is like, how they live, what their failings are and so forth is arrogant ...
 
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Erose

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I'm sorry to see even Christians can't refrain from these kind of angry attacks. Love they neighbor gets spoiled by politics every time. My interpretation of Jesus' teaching tells me that I should be inclusive and loving of everyone, even homosexuals, but I also believe I should try to understand Chick Fil A's owner and pray for him and guidance from God, not trash people based on the politics of big business. Peace all.

Before you look like you don't know what is going on how about you find out what was said by Dan Cathy.
 
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benedictaoo

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Unions want to shake people down and are run by the mafia?

No. I'm not joking... the wondeful teamsters was the mob.

Jimmy Hoffa was supposed to be meeting Detroit mobster Anthony Tony Jack Giacalone and New Jersey labor leader Anthony Tony Pro Provenzano, who also happened to be a made member of the Genovese crime family. The reason for this meeting, Hoffa believed, was to discuss his intention to run for the presidency of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and regain the powerful position he had lost after his 1964 convictions for jury tampering, conspiracy, and mail and wire fraud. But the Mafia, who had worked hand in hand with Hoffa in the past, wasnt so sure they wanted him back in power. President Richard Nixon had granted Hoffa clemency in 1971, just before Christmas, but things had changed significantly in the nearly five years Hoffa had spent behind bars. The mob found Hoffas handpicked successor, Frank Fitzsimmons, more pliable than Hoffa, and Fitzsimmons was well liked by President Nixon. The gangsters liked things the way they were. They wanted Hoffa to stay retired.
 
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Erose

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It is passing judgement on a group of individuals who are identifiable by their sexuality, that's what this thread is all about isn't it? It's about supporting or opposing Chick Fil-A in the context of the owner's funding of anti-gay groups and the comments made by the owner on the matter of same sex marriage.

The quote from the Lord's sermon on the mount is not an excuse to avoid controversy; it is a call to hesitate about jumping on a band wagon of condemnation. Pause, give the matter thought ...
Actually this thread is about defending the right to support traditional marriage and resist the changing of the definition of marriage.

I still havent seen anyone quote the comments by Dan Cathy that are anti-gay and which hate groups does his company support and show proof that they are hate groups.
 
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benedictaoo

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About now all the unions are for is "fund raiser" of the Dem. Party. The money is taken from the workers and given to the Dem. Party *regardless* of whether the worker shares those ideas and plans to vote Dem. or not.

Crime familes... Dem. Party... what's the difference.
 
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