What About MY Freedom of Choice?

CaliforniaSun · Aug 3, 2012

Metal Minister said:
Really? A clump of cells? Are you really that ignorant of fetal development? Here's that "clump of cells" at only 3 weeks gestation:

View attachment 127584

Now considering most abortions occur between 9-10 weeks gestation:

View attachment 127585

Where is that clump of cells again?

May God Richly Bless You! MM

And what of spontaneous abortions? Where does your god draw the line? It's ok for him becuase he's the god, but not for us because we're the created?

Metal Minister · Aug 3, 2012

CaliforniaSun said:
Hypocrisy then? Take your pick.

If that old curmudgeon sitting on his bum honestly believed a murder was taking place across the street, he would do something to stop it. Until then, he's just bullying and badgering women who might be emotionally struggling as it is, and this creep is not showing compassion, just bigoted judgement. What was it Ghandi said?, 'I like Christ, it's your Christians I do not.'

Considering its unfortunately completely legal, what else can he do? Unless you're advocating some form of violence or other illegal act?

May God Richly Bless You! MM

Metal Minister · Aug 3, 2012

CaliforniaSun said:
And what of spontaneous abortions? Where does your god draw the line? It's ok for him becuase he's the god, but not for us because we're the created?

...now you're just baiting because you've been proven wrong. I've answered your "question" at least twice now so I'm not doing it again simply because you wish to do this:

View attachment 127586

May God Richly Bless You! MM

CaliforniaSun · Aug 3, 2012

Metal Minister said:
Considering its unfortunately completely legal, what else can he do? Unless you're advocating some form of violence or other illegal act?

May God Richly Bless You! MM

I suppose that's a judgement call you'll have to make for yourself. If I witnessed a situation in which my immediate actions would prevent a murder, I probably would. If not, I wouldn't judge others, and I'd keep my pie hole shut.

acropolis · Aug 3, 2012

Metal Minister said:
Really? A clump of cells? Are you really that ignorant of fetal development? Here's that "clump of cells" at only 3 weeks gestation:

View attachment 127584

Now considering most abortions occur between 9-10 weeks gestation:

View attachment 127585

Where is that clump of cells again?

May God Richly Bless You! MM

Looks are deceiving. The higher brain functions that make a human a thinking person don't happen until the very end of gestation. The fetus in the first trimester is not a thinking or feeling creature, just a potential person. It's more important to protect real live people than it is to bother with the not-yet-people. The fetus in the first trimester is physical incapable of experiencing suffering, while the mother forced to carry to term, and the child who is unwanted, absolutely are.

now faith · Aug 3, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
And he knew mankind's freewill would lead to things perishing, so therefore it must have been God's plan as well.

If Abortion is against God's plan, that means we are capable of messing up his plan, and he's powerless to stop it. That doesn't fit into any definition of God I'm aware of?

You are not aware of God whatsoever, nor do you understand faith in God. Your hang up is to refute any mention of God. We could discuss marbles ,and you would be on the God attack. Your mind is cluttered with a obsession with Christianity, you attempt to set the rules of debate by discrediting God. So this makes any thing Christians say mythological from you narrow tunnel. Basically you use this as a guise to divert the real issue of the debate. Atheist have stated in the past that they have morals, so lay aside the discrediting of our faith, and answer. Do you think abortion is morally wrong? Please try not to bore me with answering with a question like is war wrong or the death penalty. I want a straight answer, babies are innocent victims of this murder, not someone trying to kill you or some hardened killer on death row. Usually people who are sentenced to death are premeditated cold blooded killers, the same as the sick quacks performing abortions to line their pockets.

Metal Minister · Aug 3, 2012

CaliforniaSun said:
Hypocrisy then? Take your pick.

If that old curmudgeon sitting on his bum honestly believed a murder was taking place across the street, he would do something to stop it. Until then, he's just bullying and badgering women who might be emotionally struggling as it is, and this creep is not showing compassion, just bigoted judgement. What was it Ghandi said?, 'I like Christ, it's your Christians I do not.'

I always find it hysterical that people will advocate violence or law breaking to say that Christians aren't doing enough if they "believe a murder is taking place" when it comes to an abortion clinic, but if on the EXTREMELY rare instance that some nut DOES do something stupid, they're the first to point the finger and say " see! see! I told you those Christians were all a bunch of violent hate mongers!"...

now faith · Aug 3, 2012

GNJ said:
Hmm, yeah I think there's a bit of a difference between the quick, painless termination of a fetus that is in a sleep-like state and can not yet feel pain (it is thought they do not feel pain until beyond 20 weeks, whereas the cutoff age for abortion is 12 weeks unless there are special circumstances) and killing an adult person for a trivial reason. I think a lot of people forget the extensive thought process and internal conflict that goes along with deciding to have an abortion. No one who has an abortion has sex prior to with a mindset like "lol oh it's okay let's not use protection because if I get pregnant I'll just get it scooped out lol!!!"

While I agree with the general idea of this, how would it work if we could decide where our money goes? Really our money just goes to the government, it becomes theirs and THEY decide what to do with it. Once it enters their hands it has nothing to do with us anymore. But can you imagine if they sent out a form or something like "please check the boxes next to the organizations you do not want to support with tax money", suddenly everyone would have a moral issue with every possible thing!

Really they do not feel pain having their arms ripped from their body, no pain having their heads sucked off? Or when the butchers fail to kill them and their left maimed on a table until they die. So if the women have multiple abortions ,they are being carefully safe to avoid abortion . And the pigs who council girls to have abortion what are they in it for ? Do you think they care about the girls ? Here's a dose of reality , they troll Schools giving out defective condoms, and their business cards. It about MONEY sales commission . You need to watch shows dealing with reformed abortion sales people who have confessed what they have done because they fell under conviction, and repented of their sin.

now faith · Aug 3, 2012

Jeremiah 2:
33[bless and do not curse]Why trimmest thou thy way to seek love? therefore hast thou also taught the wicked ones thy ways.
34[bless and do not curse]Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these.
35[bless and do not curse]Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me. Behold, I will plead with thee, because thou sayest, I have not sinned.

I wonder how a pro choice person would feel ,if they were to have a child and their wife choose to have a abortion with out telling them. Would they brush off their own seed and say oh well that thing wasn't human anyway.

now faith · Aug 3, 2012

I did not realize quoting the Bible needed to be edited.

acropolis · Aug 3, 2012

now faith said:
I did not realize quoting the Bible needed to be edited.

Some parts of the Bible aren't up to CF's standards of decency.

IzzyPop · Aug 3, 2012

Metal Minister said:
Really? A clump of cells? Are you really that ignorant of fetal development? Here's that "clump of cells" at only 3 weeks gestation:

View attachment 127584

Now considering most abortions occur between 9-10 weeks gestation:

View attachment 127585

Where is that clump of cells again?

May God Richly Bless You! MM

And at 9-10 weeks that embryo is about 2cm long. It is alive in the same way a carrot is alive. I feel an infinite amount more concern for the life and comfort of the mother than I do for a 9 week old embryo.

Metal Minister · Aug 3, 2012

Wow, who ever said lefties don't have a heart? XP

IzzyPop said:
And at 9-10 weeks that embryo is about 2cm long. It is alive in the same way a carrot is alive. I feel an infinite amount more concern for the comfort of the mother than I do for a 9 week old embryo.

I took the liberty of correcting your post. The instances of a woman's life being in mortal danger from a pregnancy in the US are rare at best. Besides, life of the mother is never at issue. If the mothers is in danger of death, you would be hard pressed to find a person who wouldn't say that it was justified. Let's be honest with ourselves. The main reason for abortions is convenience or "comfort" if you like.
Oh, and nice attempt to side step when you were proved wrong. You went from lump of cells to like a carrot without missing a beat! Oh, and wrong again on your gestational development:

Your new resident is nearly an inch long -- about the size of a grape -- and weighs just a fraction of an ounce. She's starting to look more and more human. Her essential body parts are accounted for, though they'll go through plenty of fine-tuning in the coming months. (http://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregnancy-9-weeks_1098.bc)

May God Richly Bless You! MM

Metal Minister · Aug 3, 2012

never mind...

Dave Ellis · Aug 3, 2012

now faith said:
You are not aware of God whatsoever, nor do you understand faith in God. Your hang up is to refute any mention of God. We could discuss marbles ,and you would be on the God attack. Your mind is cluttered with a obsession with Christianity, you attempt to set the rules of debate by discrediting God. So this makes any thing Christians say mythological from you narrow tunnel. Basically you use this as a guise to divert the real issue of the debate. Atheist have stated in the past that they have morals, so lay aside the discrediting of our faith, and answer. Do you think abortion is morally wrong? Please try not to bore me with answering with a question like is war wrong or the death penalty. I want a straight answer, babies are innocent victims of this murder, not someone trying to kill you or some hardened killer on death row. Usually people who are sentenced to death are premeditated cold blooded killers, the same as the sick quacks performing abortions to line their pockets.

Nice dodge of my point.

Answer the points that I raised (Namely that it's laughable that if God's real that we could send God's plan off the rails on a whim). And then I'll address your points.

Dave Ellis · Aug 3, 2012

now faith said:
Really they do not feel pain having their arms ripped from their body, no pain having their heads sucked off? Or when the butchers fail to kill them and their left maimed on a table until they die. So if the women have multiple abortions ,they are being carefully safe to avoid abortion . And the pigs who council girls to have abortion what are they in it for ? Do you think they care about the girls ? Here's a dose of reality , they troll Schools giving out defective condoms, and their business cards. It about MONEY sales commission . You need to watch shows dealing with reformed abortion sales people who have confessed what they have done because they fell under conviction, and repented of their sin.

If they're not capable of conscious thought, and have no working pain receptors.... then yes, they feel no pain, and have no idea what's going on.

Dave Ellis · Aug 3, 2012

acropolis said:
Some parts of the Bible aren't up to CF's standards of decency.

That's Awesome!

now faith · Aug 4, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
That's Awesome!

Yeah , awesome , I'm gonna bail on this thread, it's hard enough you telling me all schripture is a myth. Have a great weekend all !!

IzzyPop · Aug 4, 2012

Metal Minister said:
Wow, who ever said lefties don't have a heart? XP

I took the liberty of correcting your post. The instances of a woman's life being in mortal danger from a pregnancy in the US are rare at best. Besides, life of the mother is never at issue. If the mothers is in danger of death, you would be hard pressed to find a person who wouldn't say that it was justified. Let's be honest with ourselves. The main reason for abortions is convenience or "comfort" if you like.
Oh, and nice attempt to side step when you were proved wrong. You went from lump of cells to like a carrot without missing a beat! Oh, and wrong again on your gestational development:

Your new resident is nearly an inch long -- about the size of a grape -- and weighs just a fraction of an ounce. She's starting to look more and more human. Her essential body parts are accounted for, though they'll go through plenty of fine-tuning in the coming months. (Your pregnancy: 9 weeks | BabyCenter)

May God Richly Bless You! MM

And just to be pedantic:

2 posts ago I stated "It is alive in only the most technical of definitions." So jumping from that to "It is alive in the same way a carrot is alive" isn't much of a jump. More like restating the same thing in a different way.

There are 2.54 cm to an inch. So 'about 2 cm' = 'nearly an inch'. :doh:

There is more to life than just a freaking heartbeat. So when I mention the life of the mother I am also talking about the quality of said life.

But, hey, it is not like I really have a heart or anything. Nope, as long as it is human and has heartbeat, no matter how much pain or misery it is in or causes another, we must force it to remain on this earth...

That kind of heart I can do without.http://www.christianforums.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=61106420

Dave Ellis · Aug 4, 2012

now faith said:
Yeah , awesome , I'm gonna bail on this thread, it's hard enough you telling me all schripture is a myth. Have a great weekend all !!

Well, sorry it's hard for you to hear, but that is indeed our position, and that's also what the evidence shows.

Either way, have a good weekend as well!

What About MY Freedom of Choice?

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