Faith and Unbelief

You'll need an aspirin for sure, this topic is vast. One camp turns people into robots, because imputation can only come to a dead person, we were dead in sins, and a dead person can't have faith, even though Calvin admitted, there must be something left in there, in the dead man in his Ephesians commentary. But still, if the persons faith is not involved, we have robots. The robotic view, in a strange way, seems closer to grace though, in my view.

Then we have the Abraham issue, his faith was credited, and the whole argument that turns faith into a work, after all, it was "his" faith.

Have fun, Source.

I am sorry no. If we have a measure of Faith it can be increased. It depends on if you develope your faith. Abraham had strong Faith (Rom 4:20). Romans 4:19, you can be weak in faith. You increase your faith by saying, Mark 11:22-24. You increase your faith by your confession of the Word of God.

Stevelee44 said:

I am sorry no. If we have a measure of Faith it can be increased. It depends on if you develope your faith. Abraham had strong Faith (Rom 4:20). Romans 4:19, you can be weak in faith. You increase your faith by saying, Mark 11:22-24. You increase your faith by your confession of the Word of God.

Click to expand...

Oh you woffer in disguise, you

JimB said:

I have a thought (got an aspirin?).

The Apostle taught us that faith is a gift from God (Romans 12.3). An unbeliever cannot have faith (they are, after all, unbelievers). For them to have faith, God would have to grant it. And he does, “by measure.” If faith is given “by measure,” it cannot be added to or diminished, only embraced. The variable is not the quantity of our faith, but the level of unbelief we also embrace. Rather than strive to build up our faith perhaps we should work at diminishing the unbelief we entertain. What’s right/wrong with this? What do you think? ​

~Jim​

​

Click to expand...

Jesus often told his followers, "Oh ye of little faith"

If their faith was small, why would it not follow that they could have more faith ?

The measure we receive is a gift from God, and the word says our faith comes by hearing the word of God.

My belief is that faith is information we receive from God, and act on.

proof text following,,, 2 Corinthians 1:20 Paraphrased

All the promises of God are ours in Christ.

So this tells me that all of God's promises are available to those in Christ.

some have said, "what about the promised land, how does that work ?"

Revelation says we rule and reign with Christ on earth for 1000 years, from Jerusalem. Christ is the Seed of Abraham, the one to whom the promises were made.

JimB said:

I have a thought (got an aspirin?). ​

The Apostle taught us that faith is a gift from God (Romans 12.3). An unbeliever cannot have faith (they are, after all, unbelievers). For them to have faith, God would have to grant it. And he does, “by measure.” If faith is given “by measure,” it cannot be added to or diminished, only embraced. The variable is not the quantity of our faith, but the level of unbelief we also embrace. Rather than strive to build up our faith perhaps we should work at diminishing the unbelief we entertain. What’s right/wrong with this? What do you think? ​

~Jim​

​

Click to expand...

I think you are right on, Jim.

Our unbelief is the problem.

And when we realize that disobedience manifests unbelief,
we are given insight into our disobedience which can help us locate our unbelief.

Coming to Jesus for mercy and healing are hallmarks of unbelievers?

JimB said:

I have a thought (got an aspirin?). ​

The Apostle taught us that faith is a gift from God (Romans 12.3). An unbeliever cannot have faith (they are, after all, unbelievers). For them to have faith, God would have to grant it. And he does, “by measure.” If faith is given “by measure,” it cannot be added to or diminished, only embraced. The variable is not the quantity of our faith, but the level of unbelief we also embrace. Rather than strive to build up our faith perhaps we should work at diminishing the unbelief we entertain. What’s right/wrong with this? What do you think? ​

~Jim​

​

Click to expand...

Maybe it can be said that faith is a gift, because of it's ultimate outcome...Or maybe it's because God gifts you with experience. Faith is built from the very begining of our Christian experience. By chosing to take The Word at face value, and accept what Jesus has done for us by beleiving it, we all have that fundamental base. However, to grow in faith, we have to come across things that test it. Maybe the test in themselves can be considered a gift from God. As our faith is tested, we become more willing to display our faith as our confidence in our faith in increased.

With that being said, I do not think that faith is measured by quantity, but by quality. The quality of which is tested by your confidence in your faith...your measure of unbelief. Unbelief is natural...a part of human nature, since we are so used to being let down.

I think that faith cannot be added, but it can either diminished or refined, because it is not measured in quantity. It is probably more like a metal that can be polished, or rust from lack of use.

Simply Put said:

Really?

Unbelievers who had faith:

1. Luke 18:35 Then it happened, as He was coming near Jericho, that a certain blind man sat by the road begging. 36 And hearing a multitude passing by, he asked what it meant. 37 So they told him that Jesus of Nazareth was passing by. 38 And he cried out, saying, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!” 39 Then those who went before warned him that he should be quiet; but he cried out all the more, “Son of David, have mercy on me!” 40 So Jesus stood still and commanded him to be brought to Him. And when he had come near, He asked him, 41 saying, “What do you want Me to do for you?”
​

He said, “Lord, that I may receive my sight.”
42 Then Jesus said to him, “Receive your sight; your faith has made you well.” 43 And immediately he received his sight, and followed Him, glorifying God. And all the people, when they saw it, gave praise to God.
​

That would be an unbelievers faith making them well

2. Mark 2:4 And when they could not come near Him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where He was. So when they had broken through, they let down the bed on which the paralytic was lying.

5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”

6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts,
​

That would be unbelievers faith that Jesus saw

3. Mark 5:33 But the woman, fearing and trembling, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell down before Him and told Him the whole truth. 34 And He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has made you well. Go in peace, and be healed of your affliction.”
​

Another unbeliever whose faith made them well.

3. Luke 7:8 For I also am a man placed under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
​

9 When Jesus heard these things, He marveled at him, and turned around and said to the crowd that followed Him, “I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!” 10 And those who were sent, returning to the house, found the servant well who had been sick.
​

No Jim, the scripture says otherwise.

Click to expand...

Those guys that you mentioned were not unbelievers...evidenced by the fact that they came to Jesus in the first place. Take a look at the blind man. He called Jesus the "Son of David", which is a reference to Jesus's title of Messiah. That shows that the blind man was a believer. In fact, faith and belief go hand in hand since you cannot have one without the other. The same goes for all the unnamed people that you mentioned.

TasManOfGod said:

Oh you woffer in disguise, you

Click to expand...

I don't understand, what is a "woffer".

...

2Th 1:3 We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing.

Click to expand...

Simply Put said:

Really?

Unbelievers who had faith:

1. Luke 18:35 Then it happened, as He was coming near Jericho, that a certain blind man sat by the road begging. 36 And hearing a multitude passing by, he asked what it meant. 37 So they told him that Jesus of Nazareth was passing by. 38 And he cried out, saying, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!” 39 Then those who went before warned him that he should be quiet; but he cried out all the more, “Son of David, have mercy on me!” 40 So Jesus stood still and commanded him to be brought to Him. And when he had come near, He asked him, 41 saying, “What do you want Me to do for you?”
He said, “Lord, that I may receive my sight.”
42 Then Jesus said to him, “Receive your sight; your faith has made you well.” 43 And immediately he received his sight, and followed Him, glorifying God. And all the people, when they saw it, gave praise to God.​

That would be an unbelievers faith making them well

2. Mark 2:4 And when they could not come near Him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where He was. So when they had broken through, they let down the bed on which the paralytic was lying.

5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”

6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts,​

That would be unbelievers faith that Jesus saw

3. Mark 5:33 But the woman, fearing and trembling, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell down before Him and told Him the whole truth. 34 And He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has made you well. Go in peace, and be healed of your affliction.”​

Another unbeliever whose faith made them well.

3. Luke 7:8 For I also am a man placed under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

9 When Jesus heard these things, He marveled at him, and turned around and said to the crowd that followed Him, “I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!” 10 And those who were sent, returning to the house, found the servant well who had been sick.
​

Click to expand...

Where does the scripture say these were unbelievers? If they did not believe, they would not have been calling out to Him.

Stevelee44 said:

I don't understand, what is a "woffer".

Click to expand...

It stands for Word Of Faith. A lot of people on this forum for their lack of understanding prefer to make fun instead of actually consider what was said and respond intelligently. .

SpiritPsalmist said:

Where does the scripture say these were unbelievers? If they did not believe, they would not have been calling out to Him.

Click to expand...

Unless we have once again changed definitiOns to meet doctrine. A believer is defined as a born again Christian. A believer in the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Which. One of those people were.

SpiritPsalmist said:

It stands for Word Of Faith. A lot of people on this forum for their lack of understanding prefer to make fun instead of actually consider what was said and respond intelligently. .

Click to expand...

True Q,
And many get their opinions from anti-WoF websites/books. That is like going to a democrat to get an opinion about republican. What do you expect?

Stevelee44 said:

I don't understand, what is a "woffer".

Click to expand...

a woffer has beliefs like yours- they are diametrically opposite to those of the "non -wof "fers who would take every opportunity they can to discredit what we believe.

JimB said:

I have a thought (got an aspirin?). ​

The Apostle taught us that faith is a gift from God (Romans 12.3). An unbeliever cannot have faith (they are, after all, unbelievers). For them to have faith, God would have to grant it. And he does, “by measure.” If faith is given “by measure,” it cannot be added to or diminished, only embraced.

Click to expand...

Source Scripture said:

Then we have the Abraham issue, his faith was credited, and the whole argument that turns faith into a work, after all, it was "his" faith.

Have fun, Source.

Click to expand...

And the way I see it is that Abraham was credited because he did something with the measure of faith that he was first given. God willing, it multiplies.

God worked on Abraham in a steady progression of measurements of faith. First He told Abraham to move out of Ur and travel. What did Abraham do with this first measurement of faith? Abraham packed up and left. He put this first measurement of faith into action. While you read through Genesis you see God increamentally giving Abraham measurements of faith by way of promises and Abraham grows on this faith by acting upon every promise that was given to him.

You don't ever see Abraham trying to build up his faith, nor do you see Abraham trying to diminish his unbelief. All you see Abraham doing is acting upon that faith that is given him. And God each and every time rewards Abraham with more faith.