the Apostle Paul kept the Torah!

Standing Up · Jul 31, 2012

tzadik said:
Sir.

The behaving like a sinner had NOTHING to do with what he was eating!

Sitting with sinful gentiles, Peter ate ???

Tell us what you think Peter ate.

"For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision."

tzadik · Jul 31, 2012

Standing Up said:
Sitting with sinful gentiles, Peter ate ???

Tell us what you think Peter ate.

"For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision."

That's the point I'm trying to make.

I don't CARE what he ate. The Bible doesn't tell us. You have to ASSUME that he ate pork chops in order to support your theology.

What I do know is that Peter told us that he NEVER ate anything unclean in his life in Acts 10. that's a fact. that's not assumed.

Again, I can ask you the same question in this verse...
"Then it happened that as Jesus was reclining at the table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were dining with Jesus and His disciples." - Mark 9:10
Was Messiah eating pork chops??

"Now all the tax collectors and the sinners were coming near Him to listen to Him. Both the Pharisees and the scribes began to grumble, saying, "This man receives sinners and eats with them." Luke 15:1-2
Was Messiah eating shrimp?

Assumptions are not facts, and therefore we can't built sound theology from them.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 31, 2012

Originally Posted by tzadik

Sir.

The behaving like a sinner had NOTHING to do with what he was eating!

Click to expand...

Standing Up said:
Sitting with sinful gentiles, Peter ate ???

Tell us what you think Peter ate.

"For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision."

Doesn't say what he ate tho.

Any idea what Peter would pick off this menu if he came down to Texas today?

Jenna · Jul 31, 2012

I think that was is missing from the above is that it would have been considered "sinning" by Jewish oral law for a Jew to be sitting to eat with anyone who is "gentile born" and not a convert. They could have been eating perfectly good, biblically clean food, and those who fallowed the man-made laws would have considered it all unclean- because it was touched by people whom they considered to be intrinsically unclean. Does this mean that he was really sinning by eating with people of the nations? No. Is there anything in the text that said that they were eating unclean food? No.

All else is just adding in assumptions, to try and make the text say what it doesn't.

Frogster · Jul 31, 2012

tzadik said:
Like I mentioned to your pal Froggy...there is ZERO mention iN Scriptures that Peter, or better yet, any true believer ate any unclean foods.

It's ALL assumed.

What we DO know is that Peter says in Acts 10 that he's NEVER eaten anything unclean. That is the ONLY non-assumed fact.

And I'm sure everyone should know that NO one is justified by works of the law

Should be common knowledge, seeing the Law of God was NOT given for redemption but for instruction

does it say this?

Gal 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.[a]

or this?

12 For before certain men came from James, he was bird watching with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.[a]

you're assuming and ommiting, I post what it says...

eating...

Frogster · Jul 31, 2012

tzadik said:
Like I mentioned to your pal Froggy...there is ZERO mention iN Scriptures that Peter, or better yet, any true believer ate any unclean foods.

It's ALL assumed.

What we DO know is that Peter says in Acts 10 that he's NEVER eaten anything unclean. That is the ONLY non-assumed fact.

And I'm sure everyone should know that NO one is justified by works of the law

Should be common knowledge, seeing the Law of God was NOT given for redemption but for instruction

dude..u might wan't to know, that the i never ate unclean in Acts 10, was before Antioch, and after Jesus told him eat, so really.....

Frogster · Jul 31, 2012

tzadik said:
Spoken like a true anti-Torah champ.

Matthew 24:12 much?

do u mean the law that peter said was a yoke, that the fathers experientially, historically lived under before the contents of the council meeting was even known?

tzadik · Jul 31, 2012

Frogster said:
does it say this?

Gal 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.[a]

or this?

12 For before certain men came from James, he was bird watching with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.[a]

you're assuming and ommiting, I post what it says... eating...

You're funny brother.
Of course it says eat.

It also said that Messiah ate with sinners and tax collectors.
Are you telling me that Messiah was also a porkchop, shrimp scampi eater?

tzadik · Jul 31, 2012

Frogster said:
dude..u might wan't to know, that the i never ate unclean in Acts 10, was before Antioch, and after Jesus told him eat, so really.....

assumptions.
assumptions. and more assumptions.

Nowhere in Scripture does it state that ANY TRUE believer ate anything unclean ever. (without assumptions)

Case closed.

tzadik · Jul 31, 2012

Frogster said:
do u mean the law that peter said was a yoke, that the fathers experientially, historically lived under before the contents of the council meeting was even known?

I dunno.
Ask Messiah, He said that many people's hearts will grow cold because of their Torah-lessness.

tzadik · Jul 31, 2012

Jenna said:
I think that was is missing from the above is that it would have been considered "sinning" by Jewish oral law for a Jew to be sitting to eat with anyone who is "gentile born" and not a convert. They could have been eating perfectly good, biblically clean food, and those who fallowed the man-made laws would have considered it all unclean- because it was touched by people whom they considered to be intrinsically unclean. Does this mean that he was really sinning by eating with people of the nations? No. Is there anything in the text that said that they were eating unclean food? No.

All else is just adding in assumptions, to try and make the text say what it doesn't.

Right on!

Jenna · Jul 31, 2012

"Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. He said to them: You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?" Acts 10:27-27

Peter's vision wasn't about what he was EATING, but about whether he could be in the company of men whom the Jews (following their oral law) would consider unclean and wouldn't associate (or eat) with. This has nothing to do with the food that a person eats.

Frogster · Jul 31, 2012

parsonsmom said:
====================================================

Do you understand what torah is.?

Jesus said do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them, For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook, identifying certain Hebrew letters will pass from the Law until all things, it foreshadows are accomplished. Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least important of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least, important in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you,unless your righteousness your uprightness and your right standing with God is more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the whole person spirit,soul and body; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure and bright, enlightening the eyes. The reverent fear or obedience,to the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the ordinances of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, even than much fine gold; they are sweeter also than honey and drippings from the honeycomb. Moreover, by them is Your servant warned, reminded, illuminated, and instructed; and in keeping them there is great reward. Respectfully; Parsonsmom.

the only problem is, when u say every jot ant title not passing away, about 1/3 of the torah laws went away, when the temple went down, a global hint, as those in hebrews were warned, as 40 years came to them also in chpt 3-4.

we can't trample grace, as per heb 10:29.respectfully also, frog

Frogster · Jul 31, 2012

parsonsmom said:
===================================================

This is obedience to YHWH'S Word. Romans 19,

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Parsonsmom

Romans 10, he just got done talking all about how it is by faith, not law, that is why the jews did not come in the way of the Abrahamic gentiles, because it is not about judaism as per Rom 4, and 9.

Frogster · Jul 31, 2012

tzadik said:
once again...more assumptions.

Think about this for a split second.

Paul said that he believed everything that was according to the Law of God. He commended the Bereans for not being "naive", but instead comparing EVERYTHING taught to them with what was previously instructed by God in the Tanakh ("OT").

So you must understand that everything that any "NT" believer taught, spoke, or stated, had to be seen in the light of the TRUTH of the Tanakh.

So if Paul is talking about eating and drinking, he is talking about it in the context of what God has instructed as edible and non-edible.

If he spoke "outside of this context", he wouldn't be able to say what he did in Acts 24:14 or commend the Bereans for what he did in Acts 17:11.

You are trying to divorce the "NT" from their "OT" foundation.

what does eat everything in the pagan corinth meat mkt mean? he even said to eat the food of the unbelievers, knowing it was idlol food, the corinth mkts bought the idol food to sell...the corinthians ate it.

Standing Up · Jul 31, 2012

Jenna said:
I think that was is missing from the above is that it would have been considered "sinning" by Jewish oral law for a Jew to be sitting to eat with anyone who is "gentile born" and not a convert. They could have been eating perfectly good, biblically clean food, and those who fallowed the man-made laws would have considered it all unclean- because it was touched by people whom they considered to be intrinsically unclean. Does this mean that he was really sinning by eating with people of the nations? No. Is there anything in the text that said that they were eating unclean food? No.

All else is just adding in assumptions, to try and make the text say what it doesn't.

Maybe. I doubt Peter, after being with Jesus, would consider either thing "unclean".

Frogster · Jul 31, 2012

Jenna said:
"Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. He said to them: You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?" Acts 10:27-27

Peter's vision wasn't about what he was EATING, but about whether he could be in the company of men whom the Jews (following their oral law) would consider unclean and wouldn't associate (or eat) with. This has nothing to do with the food that a person eats.

the food laws defiled the gentiles, unclean in 10:14, and 10:28.

Frogster · Jul 31, 2012

tzadik said:
Right on!

stop acting like the gentiles were not defiled from the torah, they did not get cleansed, they did not go to temple.

John 18:28 Then they led Jesus from the house of Caiaphas to the governor's headquarters. It was early morning. They themselves did not enter the governor's headquarters, so that they would not be defiled, but could eat the Passover.

Acts 21:28 KJV Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.

hath polluted
New Testament Greek Definition:
2840 koinoo {koy-no'-o}
from 2839; TDNT - 3:809,447; v
AV - defile 11, call common 2, pollute 1, unclean 1; 15
1) to make common
1a) to make (Levitically) unclean, render unhallowed, defile, profane
1b) to declare or count unclean

Frogster · Jul 31, 2012

Standing Up said:
Sitting with sinful gentiles, Peter ate ???

Tell us what you think Peter ate.

"For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision."

yup, and he says we "assume".

ATE...ATE...ATE...

Frogster · Jul 31, 2012

tzadik said:
That's the point I'm trying to make.

I don't CARE what he ate. The Bible doesn't tell us. You have to ASSUME that he ate pork chops in order to support your theology.

What I do know is that Peter told us that he NEVER ate anything unclean in his life in Acts 10. that's a fact. that's not assumed.

Again, I can ask you the same question in this verse...
"Then it happened that as Jesus was reclining at the table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were dining with Jesus and His disciples." - Mark 9:10
Was Messiah eating pork chops??

"Now all the tax collectors and the sinners were coming near Him to listen to Him. Both the Pharisees and the scribes began to grumble, saying, "This man receives sinners and eats with them." Luke 15:1-2
Was Messiah eating shrimp?

Assumptions are not facts, and therefore we can't built sound theology from them.

AGAIN..antioch was after acts 10....

it was after, rise and eat of 10!

the Apostle Paul kept the Torah!

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