The World Today Breaks My Heart

Motherprayer, you can always approach me and with respect tell me that you think what I am doing is a sin. You have been nothing but polite and loving in your posts in my threads.

On topic, I think it is wrong to attack either side and make assumptions about someone without knowing the truth about them. I completely support anyone's right to vote however they feel they should vote. If that is dictated by their morals or their religion that is a perfectly legitamte way to vote. What I dont like is when people make end runs around the Constitution. If you dont like a law, change it! dont just ignore it.

Freedom of Speech is another one of those things that is hard to define. Back when the "founding fathers" wrote the constitution they supported freedom of speech. However, if someone socked someone in the nose for saying something wrong that would have been overlooked as well. I am NOT advicating this, just pointing it out. Times change and the courts have to decide how those simplistic statements fit in the modern world. If the court decides something that people disagree with then the only recourse is to work on changing the law to fit in with the courts opinion, or Amending the Constitution.

Tomas de Torquemada said:

The thought police haven't left us, its merely become federalized and administered by a class of outsiders, rootless cosmopolitans, and perverts.

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You surely must try harder

motherprayer said:

Why, I ask, is it wrong for me as a Christian to tell you that I respectfully disagree with your sinful attitude, but it is perfectly fine to attach something like this to a telephone pole, and then it just SITS THERE?

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Both are ok.

Why is it okay for atheists to publicly mock Christianity, but it is not okay for Christians to say, with respect, that drugs are wrong, homosexuality is a sin, and little girls shouldn't have sex? Why?

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They are both ok with me. I guess it would be better if no one were mocked, but I see why people get annoyed at Christians or just anyone they think is very wrong.

motherprayer said:

No. I propose banning hateful speech altogether. You can disagree with my views, that is your prerogative.

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I think that goes against free speech. And what does hate speech mean? Mocking isn't hate speech. Saying Christianity is a cult definitely isn't hate speech. It is very tame language. Real hate speech is much much worse.

But I do not belong to a cult, and aside being inaccurate, it is a derogatory statement.

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Depends how you define cult. Not that I am saying I think you are in a cult.

It is derogatory, but that's ok. I want to call people stupid sometimes, and I do, and sometimes it is true. In other situations the freedom to say what you want (even to insult) could be very important. To say the neo-nazis are evil, or represent evil, does good by deterring people from following them.

I understand there are Christians who have been hateful in their sentiments, but I am not one of them, and I do not know of anyone who is, or I would have explained to them about love and God's command for us to teach with love, and if they didn't listen, I would have left them alone.

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Well that is good to hear.

motherprayer said:

My issue wasn't the fact that it was placed, but the message it carried. It was derogatory, and also inaccurate. It was personal to me because it was directed at my lifestyle. And what really bothered me was that it SAT there ALL day, and I was the first Christian to go "Hey, that's awful, that should be taken down" and actually DO something about it! You are missing a key point, and that is what really bothered me was that everyone else just left it. The other CHRISTIANS, you know, those self-righteous fools, LEFT IT! Hey, it only took one person to put it up there, so what right? But it took a whole LOT of believers to see it and just go on by.
You can take it personal if you want, but the real problem with this was the lackadaisacal attitude of Christians who should have done something before me.

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So if somebody uses free speech to express something we disagree with, we should do something about it? Maybe they just disagreed with your sinful lifestyle? Maybe you need to grow a thicker skin?

Tomas de Torquemada said:

The thought police haven't left us, its merely become federalized and administered by a class of outsiders, rootless cosmopolitans, and perverts.

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Are you referring to the priesthood?

motherprayer said:

My issue wasn't the fact that it was placed, but the message it carried. It was derogatory, and also inaccurate. It was personal to me because it was directed at my lifestyle.

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People are entitled to speak their minds. You object because you cared to take someone's statement about religion personally because it was directed at your lifestyle. But you say in your OP you have no problem telling other people you object to their lifestyle.
Maybe that sign is God's way of showing you how you make other people feel when you do what the person who posted that sign did. Attack someone elses way of life.

And what really bothered me was that it SAT there ALL day, and I was the first Christian to go "Hey, that's awful, that should be taken down"

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Censorship. If you don't like the message your free to disagree with it. Just as people are free to speak.

Perhaps looking to Dictionary.com will help you a bit. By definition religion is a cult.

and actually DO something about it! You are missing a key point, and that is what really bothered me was that everyone else just left it. The other CHRISTIANS, you know, those self-righteous fools, LEFT IT! Hey, it only took one person to put it up there, so what right? But it took a whole LOT of believers to see it and just go on by. You can take it personal if you want, but the real problem with this was the lackadaisacal attitude of Christians who should have done something before me.

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I don't know who you're talking to when you say that (above), because you don't quote anyone. However, from the sound of it you're the one taking it personal. And you're really angry that other Christians were more respectful of the right of someone to exercise free speech, rather than demonstrate immoral vandalism against a little sign that is actually speaking the truth that you feel no one has a right to read and decide for themselves.

Religion is a cult.

Here let me help you to gain understanding. Then perhaps you won't continue to ruin moments of your life over a sign that doesn't have to mean anything to you, if you don't wish it to.


cult   [kuhlt]
noun
1.
a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.
an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.
the object of such devotion.
4.
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.
Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols

motherprayer said:

I do not practice religion. In fact, I disagree. God did not call us to be religious, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for their outspoken religious posturings, but yet abundant lack of true faith in God. And we still have "Pharisees" today, but today they have means of mass communication, and are called by different names. God said be holy, not apostolic, not protestant, not baptist, not catholic, just holy.
And to be honest, I have felt the presence of God as if it were me and Him, and the feeling was so beautiful that I truly wished that every single person would feel that presence like I did. I wish that for a second, every single person could see God through all the ritualistic paint we cover Him with. God is so incredibly amazing and wise, and truth be told, no one living could possibly understand how much He just wants to BE with us, hold our hands so that we feel joy that is impossible to rightly describe. God is LOVE! True love, the kind that will just BE forever and ever! Love that doesn't stop or diminish because we do something we shouldn't, like lie or steal. Love that will allow us to create our own destiny, even if that destiny is far away from Him. Love that allows us to be US, even when US is not very nice, and with all His power, He carries the knowledge that He can change us but the wisdom to leave us to our will and desire. Love that will wrap His arms around us whenever we desire, but only when we ask, because He does not desire for His presence to discomfort us. Love that stays even when we believe it won't, because its patience knows no bounds.
That's what God is.

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Have you actually held god's hands and given him a hug?

motherprayer said:

No. I propose banning hateful speech altogether.

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motherprayer said:

The other CHRISTIANS, you know, those self-righteous fools, LEFT IT!

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See how quickly you ran afoul of your own proposal?

motherprayer said:

Actually, I wouldn't mind if they got offended. Maybe this post and the conversations herein could bring someone closer to God.
A true Christian is one who acts in love, not judgment.
A true Christian will give in kindness to anyone, regardless of faith or lifestyle.
A true Christian will try their best to do what God wants, and know when to repent when they fall.
A true Christian will understand that Christianity is not about hitting a spiritual "high point" where they no longer do wrong, but about constant growth, growth that never stops until they meet God.
A true Christian realizes the awesome power and grace of God, and will seek to bestow that kindness upon others.
A true Christian will profess their imperfections, because we all have them, both to men and to God.
A true Christian will seek to save others, and pray even for those who hurt them.
A true Christian does not seek to do harm under any circumstance, but may sometimes be overcome by their passions and say or do hurtful things, after which they WILL apologize and seek the forgiveness of those they hurt, and of God.

Now, under most of those things you could substitute "good person" for "Christian." No?

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I take more of a 'hard love' approach which I believe is more pragmatic in that I do believe that the best action sometimes is judgement, violence, or mockery as it helps society as a whole grow to be a more understanding, empathetic, and 'good' one. As such I think that someone who follows the points you listed would be a bit falsely idealistic and usually ending up with few results.

Having said that, if a person follows most of those ideals I would agree that they probably are trying to be a good person and do what is best and right and that alone does qualify them as a 'good person' in my book; and these ideals are certainly a lot better than many other ethical systems that I see people following these days.

Why is it ok for you to tell people lovingly that they are sinners, but offensive for people to lovingly tell you that you are following a cult?

motherprayer said:

I speak often about how hard it is to have faith in a society that teaches that there is none. Below is a perfect example. Why, I ask, is it wrong for me as a Christian to tell you that I respectfully disagree with your sinful attitude, but it is perfectly fine to attach something like this to a telephone pole, and then it just SITS THERE?
Why is it okay for atheists to publicly mock Christianity, but it is not okay for Christians to say, with respect, that drugs are wrong, homosexuality is a sin, and little girls shouldn't have sex? Why?

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Why do you think that sign mocks Christianity? . Why do you think an atheist posted it? Could it be someone who just like the band cobra skulls posted it(although probably not because I think the lyrics are "faith is a cult" but the song title is "faith is a cobra")?for what you can say... you can say whatever you want, and people can respond to what you say with their own ideas. What's the problem?

motherprayer said:

My issue wasn't the fact that it was placed, but the message it carried. It was derogatory, and also inaccurate. It was personal to me because it was directed at my lifestyle. And what really bothered me was that it SAT there ALL day, and I was the first Christian to go "Hey, that's awful, that should be taken down" and actually DO something about it! You are missing a key point, and that is what really bothered me was that everyone else just left it. The other CHRISTIANS, you know, those self-righteous fools, LEFT IT! Hey, it only took one person to put it up there, so what right? But it took a whole LOT of believers to see it and just go on by.
You can take it personal if you want, but the real problem with this was the lackadaisacal attitude of Christians who should have done something before me.

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Maybe those other Christians left it because they didn't take it personally. You have a lot to say about those people who weren't bothered by some guerilla art and how you think they should have responded. I invite you to ask yourself why you believe that sign that didn't mention Christianity, or religion, or spirituality was directed at your lifestyle?

I actually did a quick Google search on the quote on the picture. The only thing that came up was a bad YouTube e vid of a band called cobra skulls, a couple quotes from bill maher calling Mormonism a cult, and a site calling Baha'i a cult. Honestly, I don't see the big deal...so it was a crummy poster <shrug> so what? There are a lot more important things to worry about...

May God Richly Bless You! MM

I think that all such message signs (whether Christian or atheist) should be left up, not vandalized or taken down just because someone dislikes the message.

It's just a message, folks! It's just someone's opinion. Just make a mental note of that opinion, decide if you agree or disagree, and continue walking. It's that easy.

For example:



I would do nothing to take this billboard down.


eudaimonia,

Mark

motherprayer said:

I speak often about how hard it is to have faith in a society that teaches that there is none. Below is a perfect example. Why, I ask, is it wrong for me as a Christian to tell you that I respectfully disagree with your sinful attitude, but it is perfectly fine to attach something like this to a telephone pole, and then it just SITS THERE?
Why is it okay for atheists to publicly mock Christianity, but it is not okay for Christians to say, with respect, that drugs are wrong, homosexuality is a sin, and little girls shouldn't have sex? Why?

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I´m not sure I understand what you mean by "it´s ok".
People give their opinion (that´s ok), and others who disagree with them possibly criticize them for their opinion and the way they deliver it, as well (and that´s ok, too).
The latter is exactly what you have the opportunity to do here and make use of - so what´s the problem?
I´m not seeing how being criticized, contradicted or disagreed with amounts to the conclusion "It´s not ok to give my opinion".