The ESV - just another Vatican Version

Orange_County_Chopper said:

^I can't understand all the "thees" and "thou's".

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Hi Chopper. Actually, the difference between "thee" and "ye" is very simple to explain and it is far more accurate!

Here is the difference and why it is important - Hope this helps explain why they should be retained in the Bible

Thee and Ye - Another King James Bible Believer

God bless,

rdcast said:

How did it get there???

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Hi rdcast. When someone tells you -"This is because many of the earliest and best Greek manuscripts don't testify to that verse being there."

You should realize that they are just repeating the Critical text party line. Most people who say this have no idea what these so called "oldest and best manuscripts" are or what they really say.

Take a look here at my own study of these so called oldest and best. If these are the best, then we are in a world of hurt.

http://brandplucked.webs.com/oldestandbestmss.htm

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8

God bless,

rdcast said:

Toward the end of your web-page, you give the following paragraph:
"The pure stream of the New Testament has flowed to us through the Received Text, which Dr. D. Otis Fuller tells us: "had authority enough to become either in itself, or by its translation, the Bible of the great Syrian Church, of the Waldensian Church of northern Italy, of the Gallic Church of Southern France, and of the Celtic Church in Scotland and Ireland, as well as the official Bible of the Greek Church (BYZANTINE TEXT)." The reformers stood firmly by the Received Text, Luther's German Translation and Tyndale's magnificent English Translation were from it. When 47 scholars translated the Authorised Version in 1611, by Divine Providence the Received Text was used."

Are these translations available today?

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Hi rd. We only have small portions that remain of the Old Latin, but every major disputed verse is found in them. The Sryiac we do have. You can get Lamsa's translation of the Syriac Peshitta. I have a copy of it. All the Reformation bibles are still around and you can see most of them at different internet sites. Hope this info helps some.

God bless,

ebedmelech said:

Actually what you need to do is stop this overt false claim you make.

First let me say this:

When I got savedin 1987, I had the "just saved zeal". I ran out to buy me a bible, and after searching I settled on a "NASB Study Bible" by the Holman company.

Being a new believer I listened to my church and other Christians saying the KJV was the only real bible. I swallowed that, and also read this book titled "The NASB - Satan's Masterpiece". Foolishly convinced, I went out and bought a Thompson Chain Reference KJV bible, I still have it and I use it some.

As I matured as a Christian I began to look in to this "translation stuff" because I liked the NASB. As I investigated I found many of the claims to be false...just as you're asserting in this post.

Anyhow, I came across an interesting book by James White "The KJV Only Controversy", and I finally began to understand much about the newer translations.

What the OP is suggesting in this post is blatantly false!!! I still have that NASB Study Bible that I bought in 1987 and...EVERY VERSE THE OP SAYS IS OMITTED, IS THERE!The OP is simply "puppeting" what he read from some publication that is against the newer translations, and trying to convince you something is wrong with theses bibles.

Others like Gail Riplinger, and Jack Schaap try to push this "KJV Onlyism"

Do yourself a favor and CHECK IT OUT! If you have a computer go a site like BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages. and check on these omissions. You'll probably find they are there or they will be noted in the notes.

Here's what's going on:

Newer translations are based on other manuscripts that have bee discovered since the KJV was written. Some of those manuscripts are missing different verses...like those the OP *says* are omitted...BUT IN THESE TRANSLATIONS THEY AREN'T MISSING AT ALL!!!

Example:

In my NASB bible the OP says Matthew 17:21 is missing but the verse is NOT missing. It's right there in brackets and when you look at the note on those brackets this is what it says:

"Many manuscripts do not contain this verse."

It says the same thing in the ESV, only the ESV doesn't include the verse in the text. In the ESV they annotate the verse in the notes and tell you "some manuscripts omit this verse."

So now, you are informed that there are manuscripts that don't include that verse. I'm glad to know that information for the sake of study.

So these newer translations are simply taking into account ALL THE MANUSCRIPT EVIDENCE and informing you of the differences in manuscripts.

There's too much Christians can be doing for Christ than getting caught up in this useless debate.

How many of you have sat in a KJV church with your NASB, or NIV bible and hear the pastor explain a verse he read from hi KJV in almost the identical words your translation says?

So I would encourage you not to get caught up in the hype! If you like one of the newer translations use it...just know what type of translation you have.

I enjoy my NASB...but once in awhile i like to read the KJV and I really like hearing Alexander Scourby read the King James.

God Bless

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Hi Ebedmelech. The NASBs keep changing from one edition to the next. Those verses you mentioned the NASB has [in brackets], meaning doubt as to its authenticity (a real faith builder, huh?) and they are omitted in the RSV, NRSV, NET, NIV, and ESV just as I said.

Here are some concrete examples of how your NASB keeps on changing its underlying Hebrew and Greek texts

ever changing NASBs - Another King James Bible Believer

As for James White, I have read his book several times. The man simply does not have nor believe in a complete and infallible Bible. Sure, he SAYS he does, but when asked to show us a copy of this infallible Bible he PROFESSES to believe in, he cannot do it. And neither can you. Why? Because you don't really believe such a thing exists.

And the FACT still stands that the NASB is basically a Vatican Version because it is following the same critical text of the UBS, Nestle-Aland Vatican interconfessional text.

God's true Book is 100% historically true. If you agree with this statement, then please tell us which of these is the 100% true words of God.

Most Evangelical Christians today do not believe that any Bible in any language IS the inerrant words of God. In spite of the lame, signifying nothing, recent Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy, they did get one thing right. It’s found in Article XII - “We deny that Biblical infallibility and inerrancy are limited to spiritual, religious, or redemptive themes, exclusive of assertions in the fields of history and science.” Every true Bible believer should agree with this statement. IF the Bible is not 100% historically true, then at what point does God start to tell us the truth? If we cannot trust God's Book when it comes to specific numbers and names when it comes to past history, then how can we be sure He got the other parts right?

It is devastating for the modern version promoter to see where the New Jerusalem Catholic bible lands on these verses. Also notice how the previous Catholic Douay-Rheims read. It was a whole lot closer to the historical truth than are these more modern translations.

The following short list is just a sampling of the divergent and confusing readings found among the contradictory modern bible versions. There are numerous other examples, but these are just a few to make you aware of what is going on here with "the late$t in $cholar$hip Finding$".

Among these “historic details” are whether Jeremiah 27:1 reads Jehoiakim (Hebrew texts, RV, ASV, NKJV, KJB, ISV, Douay-Rheims, St. Joseph New American Bible 1970) or Zedekiah (RSV, NIV, NASB, ESV, NET, Holman, Catholic New Jerusalem 1985)

whether 2 Samuel 21:8 reads Michal (Hebrew texts, KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV, Douay-Rheims) or Merab (RSV, NIV, NASB, ESV, NET, Holman, ISV, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or 70 (NASB, NKJV, RV, ASV, RSV, NRSV, Holman, ISV, KJB) being sent out by the Lord Jesus in Luke 10:1 and 17 or 72 (NIV, ESV, NET, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or in Matthew 18:22 does the Lord say to forgive your brother not “until 7 times, but unto 70 times 7 times” (= 490 times - KJB, RV, ASV, NASB, NKJV, RSV, ESV, ISV, Douay-Rheims, St. Joseph NAB, ALL Greek texts) or 77 times (NRSV, NIV, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or the 7th day in Judges 14:15 (KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV, Douay-Rheims) or the 4th day (RSV, ESV, NASB, NIV, NET, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem) or "the NEXT day" ISV (they just made this up!)

Or Hannah taking young Samuel to the house of the LORD with THREE bullocks in 1 Samuel 1:24 (KJB, Hebrew texts, RV, ASV, JPS 1917, NKJV, Youngs, NET, Douay-Rheims) or “A THREE YEAR OLD BULL: (LXX, Syriac RSV, ESV, NIV, NASB, ISV, Holman, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or God smiting 50,070 men in 1 Samuel 6:19 (KJB, RV, ASV, NASB, NET, ISV, Douay-Rheims) or 70 men slain (RSV, NIV, NRSV, ESV, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem), or “70 men- 50 chief men” (Young’s), or “70 MEN OUT OF 50,000 Holman Standard

or there being 30,000 chariots in 1 Samuel 13:5 (KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV, NASB, RSV, NRSV, ESV, ISV, Douay-Rheims) or only 3000 (NIV, NET, Holman, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or 1 Samuel 13:1 Here we read: “Saul reigned ONE year; and when he had reigned TWO years over Israel, Saul chose him three thousand men of Israel.” reading - ONE/TWO years (NKJV, KJB, Geneva, Judaica Press Tanach), or 40/32 (NASB 1972-77) or 30/42 (NASB 1995, NIV), OR 30 years/ 40 years (NET) or _____years and.______and two years (RSV, NRSV, ESV, St. Joseph New American Bible 1970, Catholic New Jerusalem 1985), or "was 30 years old...ruled for 42 years" ISV, or even “32 years old...reigned for 22 years” in the 1989 Revised English Bible!

2 Samuel 15:7 “forty years” (KJB, Hebrew, Geneva, NKJV, NASB, RV, Douay-Rheims) OR “four years” (NIV, RSV, ESV, NET, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem). The ISV ADDS words to the Hebrew text to make it say what they think it means, saying: "And so it was that forty years after Israel had demanded a king, Absalom asked the king..."

or whether both 2 Samuel 23:18 and 1 Chronicles 11:20 read “chief of the THREE” (KJB, Hebrew texts, RV, ASV, NKJV, NRSV, Holman, NIV, NET, Holman, NET, Douay-Rheims) or THIRTY from the Syriac (NASB, RSV, ESV, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem) The ISV completely omits any number and just makes up their own text saying: "in charge of the platoons"

or 2 Samuel 24:13 reading SEVEN years (KJB, Hebrew, ASV, NASB, NKJV, NET, ISV, Douay-Rheims) or THREE years (LXX, NIV, RSV, NRSV, ESV, Holman, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or whether 1 Kings 4:26 reads 40,000 stalls of horses (Hebrew, KJB, RV, ASV, NASB, ESV, NKJV, ISV, Douay-Rheims) or 4,000 stalls (NIV, NET, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or whether 1 Kings 5:11 reads 20 measures of pure oil (Hebrew texts, Geneva, KJB, ASV, RV, NASB, NRSV, ISV, Douay-Rheims) or 20,000 (RSV, NIV, ESV, NET, LXX and Syriac, St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or in 2 Chronicles 31:16 we read "males from THREE years old" (Hebrew texts, KJB, Geneva Bible, Wycliffe, LXX, Syriac, RV, ASV, RSV, NRSV, ESV, NIV, NKJV, Holman, NET, Douay-Rheims) or "males from THIRTY years old" (NASB - ft. Hebrew “three”, ISV -"every male 30 years old and older", St. Joseph NAB, Catholic New Jerusalem)

or where 2 Chronicles 36:9 reads that Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign (Hebrew texts, KJB, NASB, NKJV, RV, ASV, KJB, RSV, NRSV, ESV 2001 edition, ISV, Douay-Rheims) or he was 18 years old (NIV, Holman, NET, ESV 2007 edition!!! and once again the Catholic St. Joseph NAB and the New Jerusalem)

or that when God raised the Lord Jesus from the dead it is stated in Acts 13:33 “this day have I begotten thee” (KJB, NASB, NKJV, RV, RSV, NRSV, ESV, Douay-Rheims, St. Joseph NAB) or “today I have become your Father” (NIV, Holman, NET, ISV, Catholic New Jerusalem).

If you go back and read through this list of just some of the numerous very real differences that exist among these Bible of the Month Club versions, ask yourself which (if any) are the 100% historically true words of God. IF "the Bible" is not 100% historically true in the events it narrates, then when does God start to tell us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

God bless,

Ebedmelech posts: "Here's what's going on:

Newer translations are based on other manuscripts that have bee discovered since the KJV was written. Some of those manuscripts are missing different verses...like those the OP *says* are omitted...BUT IN THESE TRANSLATIONS THEY AREN'T MISSING AT ALL!!!"

Ebedmelech, your information here is completely false. There have not been any new readings found since the KJB came out. They have found a few manuscripts, but no new readings. Name one new reading that your ESV, NIV, NASB, RSV, or whatever has put into its version that was not known about before 1611. Got one?

Secondly, all one has to do is simply look up these verses in versions like the NIV, ESV, RSV, NRSV, or the modern Catholic versions like the St. Joseph NAB or New Jerusalem and see if they are IN THE TEXT or not. Real simple stuff. Are these verses IN THE TEXT or not?

By the way, I DO mention the brackets in the ever changing NASBs and there ARE some of these verses that they omit in some nasbs and then later add them [in brackets]. There are some examples I didn't even mention in Luke 24 and here is one I did mention. This information is true. I have the NASBs in print right here in my study. Look it up if you can.

Luke 9:54-56 present an interesting case. In the King James Bible we read: "And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, EVEN AS ELIAS? But he turned, and rebuked them, AND SAID, YE KNOW NOT WHAT MANNER OF SPIRIT YE ARE OF. FOR THE SON OF MAN IS NOT COME TO DESTROY MEN'S LIVES, BUT TO SAVE THEM. And they went to another village." All the words I have capitalized in these three verses are found in the Majority of all Greek texts, and are found in many ancient versions like the Syriac Peshitta, Curetonian, Palestinian, Harkelian, Georgian, Gothic, Coptic Sahidic and Boharic, Ethiopian and the Old Latin. They are also in the Modern Greek and the Modern Hebrew bibles as well as Wycliffe 1395, Tyndale 1525, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549, the Bishops' Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1587, the King James Bible, the French Martin 1744, French Ostervald 1996, Italian Diodati 1649 and New Diodati 1991, Luther's German Bible 1545 and 1951 German Schlachter, the Spanish Sagradas Escrituras 1569 and the Reina Valera 1909, 1995 and even the older Catholic bibles like the Douay-Rheims of 1582 and 1899 and the Douay of 1950. You can see the 1582 Catholic Rheims Bible, as well as Wycliffe, Tyndale, Cranmer and Geneva bibles for yourself here -

English Hexapla 1841. Greek New Testament according to Scholtz with 6 ancient English translations: Wiclif 1380, Tyndale 1534, Cranmer 1539, Geneva 1557, Rheims 1582, Authorised 1611

The NASBs reveal their fickle nature in that when it first came out in 1963 they completely omitted all these words from the text, and they did so again in the 1972 and 1973 editions. I have these NASBs right here in my study and all these words are omitted from their texts. Then in 1977 and again in 1995 they put them back in [but in brackets] indicating doubt as to their authenticity. What is happening here is that Vaticanus and Sinaiticus omit all these words, as do the Westcott-Hort and UBS Greek texts and so all these words are now omitted by such versions as the NIV, RSV, ESV, Holman Standard, the J.W. New World Translation, Daniel Wallace's NET version AND (you guessed it) the Catholic St. Joseph NAB 1970 and the New Jerusalem bible of 1985. As a result, these Catholic Connection versions read like the ESV - "...Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them? But he turned and rebuked them. And they went on to another village."

Ebedmelech. Maybe you didn't actually READ the links I provided that prove these versions are the Vatican Versions based on the UBS Nestle-Aland critical text put out with direct Vatican involvement. Check it our for yourself.



New Testament Portions of Verses Omitted by the new "Catholic" versions - NIV, NASB, ESV, Holman Standard and the Catholic New Jerusalem Bible

Matthew
5:27 by them of old time - (ALL omit)
5:44 bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you (all omit)
5:44 despitefully use you, and (All omit)
6:13 For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. (All omit) Holman Standard [brackets]
15:8 draweth nigh unto Me with their mouth, and (All omit)
19:9 and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery (All omit)
19:20 from my youth (All omit)
20:7 and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive (All omit)
20:16 for many be called, but few chosen (All omit)
20:22 and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with (All omit)
20:23 and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with (All omit)
22:13 and take him away (All omit)
23:4 and grievous to be borne (All omit)
25:13 wherein the Son of man cometh (All omit)
26:3 and the scribes (All omit)
26:60 yet found they none (All omit)
27:35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted My garments among them, and upon MY vesture did they cast lots (All omit)
28:2 from the door (All omit)
28:9 as they went to tell His disciples (All omit)

Mark
1:14 Of the kingdom (All omit)
1:42 as soon as He had spoken (All omit)
3:5 whole as the other (All omit)
3:15 to heal sicknesses, and (All omit)
6:11 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city (All omit)
6:33 and came together unto Him (All omit)
6:36 for they have nothing to eat (All omit)
7:2 they found fault (All omit)
7:8 as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do (All omit)
8:9 they that had eaten (All omit)
8:26 nor tell it to any in the town (All omit)
9:38 and he followeth not us (All omit)
9:45 into the fire that never shall be quenched (All omit)
9:49 and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt (All omit)
10:7 and cleave to his wife (All omit)
10:21 take up the cross (All omit)
10:24 them that trust in riches (All omit)
11:8 and strawed them in the way (All omit)
11:10 in the name of the Lord (All omit)
11:23 whatsoever he saith (All omit)
12:29 of all the commandments (All omit)
12:30 this is the first commandment (All omit)
12:33 and with all the soul (All omit)
13:11 neither do ye premeditate (All omit)
13:14 spoken of by Daniel the prophet (All omit)
14:19 and another said, Is it I? (All omit)
14:27 because of Me this night (All omit)
14:70 and thy speech agreeth thereto (All omit)
15:3 but He answered nothing (All omit)

Luke
1:28 blessed art thou among women (All omit)
1:29 when she saw him (All omit)
2:42 up to Jerusalem (All omit)
4:4 but by every word of God (All omit)
4:8 Get thee behind Me, Satan (All omit)
4.18 to heal the brokenhearted (All omit)
5:38 and both are preserved (All omit)
7:31 And the Lord said (All omit)
8:43 had spent all her living upon physicians (All omit)
8:45 and they that were with Him (All omit)
8:45 and sayest thou, Who touched -Me? (All omit)
8:48 be of good comfort (All omit)
8:54 put them all out, and (All omit)
9:10 a desert place (All omit)
9:54 even as Elias did? (All omit)
9:55 and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of (All omit)
9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them (All omit)
11:2 Which art in heaven (All omit)
11:2 Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth (All omit)
11:4 but deliver us from evil (All omit)
11:11 bread of any of you ... will he give him a stone ? -- or if he ask (All omit)
11:44 scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites (All omit)
11:54 that they might accuse Him (All omit)
12:39 he would have watched, and (All omit)
17:9 him? I trow not (All omit)
18:24 that he was very sorrowful (All omit)
19:45 therein, and them that bought (All omit)
20:13 when they see him (All omit)
20:23 Why tempt ye Me? (All omit)
20:30 took her to wife, and he died childless (All omit)
22:31 And the Lord said (All omit)
22:64 they struck Him on the face (All omit)
22:68 Me, nor let Me go (All omit)
23:23 and of the chief priests (All omit)
23:38 written . . . in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew (All omit)
24:1 and certain others with them (All omit)
24:42 and of an honeycomb (All omit)
24:46 and thus it behoved (All omit)

John
1:27 is preferred before me (All omit)
3:1 Which is in heaven (All omit)
3:15 should not perish, but (All omit)
5:3 waiting for the moving of the water (All omit)
5:16 and sought to slay Him (All omit)
6:11 to the disciples, and the disciples (All omit)
6:22 that one whereinto. His disciples were entered (All omit)
6:47 on Me (All omit)
8:9 being convicted by their own conscience (All omit)
8:9 even unto the last (All omit)
8:10 and saw none but the woman (All omit)
8:10 those thine accusers? (All omit)
8:59 going through the midst of them, and so passed by (All omit)
10:26 as I said unto you (All omit)
11:41 where the dead was laid (All omit)
12:1 which had been dead (All omit)
16:16 because I go to the Father (All omit)
17:12 in the world (All omit)
19:16 and led Him away (All omit)

Acts
1:14 “and supplication” (All omit)
2:30 according to the flesh, He would raise up Christ (All omit)
3:6 "rise up and" (All omit)
3:11 the lame man which was healed (All omit)
3:22 "unto the fathers" (All omit)
4:24 "thou art God" (All omit)
6:3 "Holy" (All omit)
7:30 "of the Lord" (All omit)
7:32 "of God" two of the four times (All omit)
7:37 "the Lord your" and "Him shall ye hear" (All omit)
8:18 "Holy" (All omit)
9:5 "the Lord said" (All omit)
9:5 it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks (All omit)
9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt Thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him (All omit)
10:6 he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do (All omit)
10:11- knit (All omit)
10:12 and wild beasts (All omit)
10:21 which were sent unto him froth Cornelius (All omit)
10:30 omit - fasting (All omit)
10:32 who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee, (All omit)
15:18 unto God are all His, works (All omit)
15:24 saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law (All omit)
17:5 "which believed not" (All omit)
17:26 "blood" (All omit)
18:21 1 must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem (All omit)
20:24 "with joy" (All omit)
20:25 "of God" (All omit)
21:8 that were of Paul's company (All omit)
21:22 the multitude must needs come together (All omit)
21:25 that they observe no such thing, save only (All omit)
22:9 and were afraid (All omit)
22:26 "Take heed" (All omit)
23:9 let us not fight against God (All omit)
23:15 "tomorrow" (All omit)
23:30 "the Jews" (All omit)
23:30 "Farewell" (All omit)
24:15 "of the dead" (All omit)
24:22 "when (Felix) heard these things" (all omit)
24: 23 "or come" (all omit)
24:26 that he might loose him (All omit)
25:6 change "ten days" to "8 or 10 days" (ESV, NIV, NASB, New Jerusalem bible ALL agree)
26:30 And when he had thus spoken (All omit)
28:1 change "they knew" to "we knew" (All change it)
28:16 the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard (All omit)

Romans
1:16 of Christ (All omit)
8:1 who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (All omit)
9:28 in righteousness. because a short work (All omit)
10:15 preach the gospel of peace (All omit)
11:6 But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work (All omit)
13:9 Thou shalt not bear false witness (All omit)
14:6 he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it (All omit)
14:21 or is offended, or is made weak (All omit)
15:24 1 will come to you (All omit)
15:29 of the gospel (All omit)

I Corinthians
6:20 and in your spirit, which are God's (All omit)
10:28 for the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof (All omit)
11:24 Take, eat (All omit)

Galatians
3:1 that ye should not obey the truth (All omit)

Ephesians
3:9 by Jesus Christ (All omit)
3:14 of our Lord Jesus Christ (All omit)
5:30 of His flesh, and of His bones (All omit)

Philippians
3:16 by the same rule, let us mind the same thing (All omit)

Colossians
1:2 and the Lord Jesus Christ (All omit)
1:14 through His blood (All omit)
2:2 and of the Father and of (in previous Douay-Rheims, Douay, but now omitted by ESV, NIV, NASB, Holman, St. Joseph NAB and New Jerusalem.
3:6 on the children of disobedience (In previous Douay-Rheims, Douay, but now omitted by Jerusalem bible 1968, St. Joseph NAB 1970, ESV and NIV, but still in NASB, Holman and NET. Now the latest Catholic bibles like the New Jerusalem 1985 and the 2009 Catholic Public Domain Version have put these words back in their texts! The new versions are consistently inconsistent.

(more to come)

I Thessalonians
1:1 from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ (All omit) This verse is interesting and quite revealing about what is going on in today's modern Bible Babble Buffet versions like the ESV, NIV and NASB. The words capitalized words in the phrase: "Grace be unto you, and peace, FROM GOD OUR FATHER, AND THE LORD JESUS CHRIST." are found not only in the Majority of all Greek mss. and A (Alexandrinus) but ALSO in Sinaiticus! However once again it is VATICANUS that omits these God inspired words. It is the "Evangelical" bibles that have changed; not the Catholic!

The Catholic Rheims bible of 1582 omitted them as do such modern UBS based modern versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB and the Catholic bible versions like the St. Joseph NAB and the New Jerusalem bibles.

However, the words were found and included in this verse in John Calvin's Latin translation, Luther's German Bible 1545, the Spanish Reina of 1569, the Italian Diodati of 1649 and the French Martin of 1744. This was the reading found in the Reformation Bibles in many different languages. They are STILL in the Spanish Reina Valera of 1995, the French Ostervald of 1996 and in the New Diodati of 1991. They are also in the Greek N.T. used in the Orthodox Greek churches all over the world.

Yet in the face of such overwhelming textual evidence for these inspired words being in God's Book, Bible agnostics like James White (who himself does not believe that any inerrant Bible exists now or ever existed) refers to such phrases as "expansions of piety" that were later "added" to the Bible! But then he reveals his utter hypocrisy by what his "Catholic" bible versions do in Jude v. 25. Why is this "an expansion of piety" in 1 Thessalonians 1:1 but not one in Jude 25? Hey, he's a bible agnostic; he doesn't need to have a reason. It's just his personal opinion and we're supposed to accept his "scholarly" opinion. (See Jude 25 further on in this study)


I Timothy
3:3 not greedy of filthy lucre (All omit)
6:5 from such withdraw thyself (All omit)
6:7 it is certain (All omit)

Hebrews
2:7 and didst set him over the works of Thy hands (All omit)
3:6 firm unto the end (All omit)
7:21 after the order of Melchisedec (All omit)
8:12 and their iniquities (All omit)
10:30 saith the Lord (All omit)
10:34 in heaven (All omit)
11:11 was delivered of a child (All omit)
11:13 and were persuaded of them (All omit)
12:20 or thrust through with a dart (All omit)

I Peter
1:22 through the Spirit (All omit)
4:14 on their part He is evil spoken of, but on your part He is glorified (All omit)

2 Peter
1:21 omit "holy" from "holy men of God" (All agree)
2:17 "for ever" omitted from "mist of darkness is reserved for ever" (All agree)
3:10 in the night (All omit)

I John
4:3 Christ is come in the flesh (All omit)
5:13 and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God (All omit)

Revelation

1:8 the Beginning and the Ending (All omit)
1:11 I am Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last (All omit)
1:11 which are in Asia (All omit)
5:14 Him that liveth for ever and ever (All omit)
11:1 and the angel stood (All omit)
11: 17 and art to come (All omit)
14:5 before the throne of God (All omit)
15:2 over his mark (All omit)
21:24 of them which are saved (All omit)


Difference that Affect the Meaning

Matthew
1:25 Omit: her firstborn (ESV, NIV, NASB, NET, Holman Standard, St. Joseph New American bible 1970, Catholic New Jerusalem bible ALL AGREE)

The word "firstborn" is found in the Majority of all Greek manuscripts including C, D, at least 19 other uncial copies, the Old Latin, Syriac Peshitta, Harkelian, Palestinian, the Armenian, Slavonic, Ethiopian, the Diatessaron. It is in Wycliffe 1395, Tyndale, Bishops' Bible, the Geneva Bible, and it was even in the older Catholic versions like the Douay-Rheims of 1582 and the Douay of 1950. It is in Luther's German bible 1545, the Spanish Reina Valera, Italian Diodati, French Martin and Ostervald 1996, the Portuguese Almeida and in all Reformation bibles.

Even the older Douay-Rheims of 1582 read: "And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

But then they include this mind boggling, illogical and nonsensical "explanation" in their footnotes saying: [25] Till she brought forth her firstborn son: From these words Helvidius and other heretics most impiously inferred that the blessed Virgin Mary had other children besides Christ; but St. Jerome shews, by divers examples, that this expression of the Evangelist was a manner of speaking usual among the Hebrews, to denote by the word until, only what is done, without any regard to the future. Thus it is said, Genesis 8. 6 and 7, that Noe sent forth a raven, which went forth, and did not return till the waters were dried up on the earth. That is, did not return any more. Also Isaias 46. 4, God says: I am till you grow old. Who dare infer that God should then cease to be: Also in the first book of Machabees 5. 54, And they went up to mount Sion with joy and gladness, and offered holocausts, because not one of them was slain till they had returned in peace. That is, not one was slain before or after they had returned. God saith to his divine Son: Sit on my right hand till I make thy enemies thy footstool. Shall he sit no longer after his enemies are subdued? Yea and for all eternity. St. Jerome also proves by Scripture examples, that an only begotten son, was also called firstborn, or first begotten: because according to the law, the firstborn males were to be consecrated to God; Sanctify unto me, saith the Lord, every firstborn that openeth the womb among the children of Israel, etc. Ex. 13. 2."

How utterly ridiculous. This type of argumentation whereby the Scriptures don't really mean what they clearly say is called Jesuit sophistry. The passage in Exodus calls the firstborn child the firstborn and clearly implies that others would be born afterward. Anyway, these are the new Vatican Versions.

5:22 Omit: without a cause (All agree)
6:1 righteousness, in place of, alms (All agree)
6:4 Omit: openly
6:6 Omit: openly
6:18 Omit: openly
16:3 Omit: 0 ye hypocrites (All agree)
17:4 change "let us build" (Tyndale, Geneva, NKJV, KJB, Douay-Rheims) to "I will build" (NIV, ESV, NASB, St. Joseph, New Jerusalem bible)
17:20 little faith (Tyndale, Geneva, Douay-Rheims, Douay, NKJV, KJB), in place of, unbelief (All agree - NIV, ESV, NASB, St. Joseph NAB, New Jerusalem bible)
19:16 Omit: Good (All agree
19:17 Why askest thou Me concerning the good? One is good, in place of, Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but one, that is, God - (All agree)
23:19 Omit: fools and (All omit)
24:7 Omit: and pestilences; (All omit)
24:36 Add: neither the Son (All ADD)
24:48 Omit: his coming (All omit)
25:31 Omit: holy (All omit)
26:28 Omit: new (All omit)
26:59 Omit: and elders (All omit)
27:34 wine, in place Of, vinegar (All agree)
27:42 Omit: If (All omit)
27:64 Omit: by night (All omit)
(more to come)

Mark
1:2 Isaiah the prophet, in place of' the prophets. (All agree)
2:17 Omit: to repentance (All omit)
3:29 sin, in place of, damnation (All agree)
4:11 Omit: to know (All omit)
9:29 Omit: and fasting (All omit)
12.4 Omit: they cast stones (All omit)
12:4 Omit: sent him away (All omit)
13:8 Omit: and troubles (All omit)
13:33 Omit: and pray (All omit)
14:22 Omit: eat (this is my body) (All omit “eat”)
14:24 Omit: new (new testament) (All omit “new”)
14:51 Omit: the young men (All omit)

Luke
2:22 their or them, in stead of, her (purification) (All agree)
6:48 because it was well built, in place of, for it was
founded upon a rock (All agree)
7:28 Omit: prophet (All omit)
9:35 chosen, in place of, beloved (Son) (All agree)
11:53 went out thence, in place of, said these things unto them (All agree)
14:5 son, in place of, ass (All agree)
17:3 Omit: against thee (All omit)
21:36 “may have strength”, in place of, “may be accounted worthy” (All agree)
23:15 “he sent Him back to us”, in stead of, “I sent you to him” (All agree)
23:45 failed (or eclipsed) in place of, “the sun was darkened” (All agree)

John
1:51 Omit: Hereafter (All omit)
6:65 Omit: My (Father) (All omit)
6:69 “the Holy One of God”, in place of, “that Christ, the Son
of the living God” (All agree)
8:28 Omit: My (Father) (All omit)
9:4 We, in place of, I (All agree)
12:47 keep, in place of, believe (All agree)
14:28 Omit: My (Father) (All agree)
16: 10 Omit: my (Father) (All agree)
17:17 Omit: Thy (truth) (All agree)
20:17 Omit: My (Father) (All agree_

Acts
3:20 foreordained or predestined, in stead of, “before was preached” (All agree)
6:8 ”full of grace”, in stead of “full of faith” (All agree)
10:30 Omit: fasting (All omit)
15:23 Omit: after this manner (All omit)
15:24 omit “saying, ye must be circumcised, and keep the law” (All omit)
17:5 Omit: which believed not (All omit)
17:26 Omit: blood (All omit)
18:5 ”was occupied with the word” in place of, “was pressed in the spirit” (All agree)
18:17 Omit: the Greeks (All omit)
18:21 omit “I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but” (All omit)
23:15 Omit: to morrow (All omit)
25:16 Omit: to die. (All omit)

Romans
9:32 Omit: (works) of the law (All omit)

1 Corinthians
7 :5 Omit: fasting (All omit)
7:39 Omit: by the law (All omit)
11:24 Omit: (body which is) broken (All omit)
11:29 Omit: unworthily (All omit)
14:38 he is ignored, in place of, let him be ignorant (All agree)

2 Corinthians
5:17 Omit: all things (are become new) (All agree)
12:19 Long ago, in place of, Again (All agree)

Galatians
5:19 Omit: Adultery (All agree)
5:21 Omit: murders (All agree)

Ephesians
3:9 administration, in place of, fellowship (All agree)
4:9 Omit: first (All agree)
5:9 light, in place of, Spirit (All agree)

Philippians
4:23 your spirit, in place of, you all (All agree)

Colossians
2:18 Omit: not (All agree; totally changes the meaning)

1 Thessalonians
2:15 Omit: their own (prophets) (All agree)
3:2 Omit: fellow labourer (All agree)

I Timothy
1:17 Omit: wise (God) (All agree)
3:3 omits “not greedy of filthy lucre” (All agree)
4:10 strive, in place of, suffer reproach (All agree)
4:12 omits “spirit” (All agree)
5:4 Omit: good (All agree)
5:16 Omit: “man or” (woman) (All agree)
6:19 “life that is”, in place of, “eternal life” (All agree)

2 Timothy
1:11 Omit: of the Gentiles (All agree)

Titus
1:4 Omit: mercy (All omit)

Philemon
v. 2 sister, in place of, beloved (All agree)


Hebrews
10:34 “with prisoners” in place of, “of me in my bonds” (All agree_

James
1:19 Ye know or Remember, in place of, Wherefore (All agree)
2:20 idle or useless, in place of, dead (All agree)

4:4 Omit: “adulterers and” (All agree)
4:14 “You are”, in place of, “It is” (All agree)
5:16 “confess your sins”, in place of, “faults” (All agree)

1 Peter
2:2 Add: “unto salvation” (All agree)
3:8 humble minded or “self effacing”, in stead of, “courteous” (All agree)
3:13 zealous or determined, in place of, “followers” (All agree)
3:16 Omit: as of evildoers (All agree)
4:1 Omit: (suffered) for us (All agree)
5:5 Omit: be subject (All agree)
5:11 Omit: glory and (All agree)

2 Peter
1:21 men from God, in place of, holy men of God (All agree)
2:17 Omit: for ever (All agree)
3:2 “of your (apostles)” in stead if “us the (apostles)”

I John
2:20 “You all know”, in place of, “ye know all things” (All agree)

2 John
v. 9 “whosoever goes before”, in place of, “whosoever transgresseth” (All agree)

Jude
v. 1 beloved, or dear, in stead of “them that are sanctified” (All agree)
v. 19 Omit: themselves (All agree)
v. 25 Omit: wise (All agree)
v. 25 Add: “before the whole age” or “before all ages” (All agree)
v. 25 ADD "through Jesus Christ our Lord" (All agree) The addition of the words "through Jesus Christ our Lord" to the Westcott-Hort, UBS, Catholic texts typifies what has been going on with our "Protestant, Evangelical" bibles. These extra words are NOT found in the Majority of all Greek texts at all. However they are in both Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, though even these two differ between themselves by several words in the whole verse. The extra words were in the Catholic Rheims N.T. of 1582 and every other Catholic bible since including the Douay-Rheims, St. Joseph and the New Jerusalem bible 1985. They were NOT included in the Reformation Bibles of Calvin's Latin translation, Luther's German Bible, the Italian Diodati, the French Martin, or the Spanish Reina Valera. Nor are they in Tyndale, Coverdale, Great Bible, Matthew's Bible, Bishops' Bible nor the Geneva Bible. They still are not included in the New Diodati 1991, the French Ostervald 1996 nor the Spanish Reina Valera of 1995, nor are they found in the Modern Greek text used by the Greek Orthodox churches all over the world today. It is the modern "Evangelical" versions that have become "Catholic", not the other way around. Remember - In 1987 a formal agreement was made between the Roman Catholic Church and the United Bible Societies that the critical Greek New Testament will be used for all future translations, both Catholic and Protestant (Guidelines for International Cooperation in Translating the Bible, Rome, 1987, p. 5). Most of the translations produced by the United Bible Societies are “interconfessional,” meaning they have Roman Catholic participation and backing.

Revelation
1:6 a kingdom, in place of, kings and (All agree)
2:9 Omit: “thy works and” (All agree)
2:13 Omit: “thy works and” (All omit)
2:15 “in like manner” or “and among you too”, in place of, “which thing I hate” (All agree)
2:20 Omit: a few things (All omit)
5:10 them, in place of, us (All agree)
5:16 a kingdom, in place of, kings (All agree)
5:10 they shall reign, in place of, we shall reign (All agree)
8:13 eagle, in place of, angel (All agree)
12:12 Omit: the inhabiters (All omit)
13:10 Omit: leadeth (All omit)
13:10 is to be killed, in place of, killeth (All agree)
15:3 nations, in place of, saints - (All agree)
16:17 Omit: of heaven (All omit)
19:1 Omit: and honour (All omit)
19:17 the great supper of God, in place of, the supper of the great God (All agree)
21:3 the throne, in place of, heaven (All agree)
22:14 wash their robes, in stead of, do His commandments (All agree)
22:19 tree, in place of, book (of life) (All agree)

Anybody who says versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB are not “Catholic” bibles is either blind, willingly ignorant or stupid.
There is a lot of truth to the old saying "All roads lead back to Rome" or better yet, as the prophet Isaiah says: "For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed." Isaiah 9:16

"Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters...and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication...Babylon the Great, the Mother of harlots and abominations of the earth...And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Revelation 17 & 18.

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 11:15

Return to Articles - articles - Another King James Bible Believer

Will Kinney

Ebedmelech. Look up Acts 8:37 in your 1963 nasb. Is it in the text? No. It says [see marginal note]. Then look up Acts 8:37 in your nasb 1972. Is it in the text? Again, No. Now, look up Acts 8:37 in your nasb 1995. Is in NOW in the text? Yes, but [in brackets]. This is how the nasbs keep changing their texts. Sometimes a verse is out, and then it is in, but in brackets.