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- Thread starter ThatRobGuy
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athenken
Barbary pirates? Or are they?
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Their original purpose was good, however, since then they have become, arguably as or more corrupt than our own government. With the labor laws we now have in place, and the litigical environment we now live in there really is no purpose for them, especially for government employees.
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I agree, back in the time when we had 12 year olds working in the saw mill and chopping their fingers off for pennies per hour, they might have made sense....since then, however, I think greed has taken over (especially in cases like the UAW) and they've shot themselves in the foot and inflated certain consumer costs in the process.
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If everyone in the states was union there would be no concern forwould have insurance healthcare coverage because everyone would have insurance
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That's the plus side to unions, my question is, do the downsides (over compensation & under producing leading to increased product costs) overshine the good parts?
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D
dies-l
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There are good unions that help their members to have a fighting chance of fair treatment. There are not so good unions that take their members' money, obtain minimal benefit for their members, and/or price their employers out of competitiveness (or inflate consumer prices). If we got rid of the unions, we would very likely return to some (but not all) of the abuses of the past. However, in many ways unions make US made goods too expensive to compete in the global market.
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That's why it's kind of a double edged sword.
However, considering that we do have some state & federal labor laws in place that would prevent us from going back to the complete other extreme (OSHA, minimum working age), I'm not sure how much value the unions are adding at this point.
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If someone isn't productive they will be if they're union or not. Often the price of a union produced product is comparable to that of a non union. Otherwise unions would not be able to survive in a free market or right to work states. Its all a matter of who's checking account it goes in. Money talks, do you want the voice of many heard or only the voices of the elite? If a union does its job it will ensure a qualified and productive work force. Too much power can corrupt any entity. The solution isn't eliminatte that entity.
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Yes, the difference is, it's much harder to give someone who's union their walking papers if they aren't producing.
I think the auto plant closures are living proof of this very thing. When you pay someone double what the going rate would be just because they've been there for 10 years, it drives the price up to the point where they can't produce an affordable product.
I guess the UAW wasn't doing its job then (at least in some cases)
My uncle worked at a Ford plant that closed for 13 years. He, along with his supervisor and two others were in charge of keeping 4 machines running. They would play pinochle and take turns checking the machines between hands. On the rare occasions there was something that needed to be addressed, if the problem wasn't obvious they would typically shut the machine off and call in a tech from the machine manufacturer to fix it.
Not sure how much his Sup & co-workers made, but I know he made $24/hour to do this (plus time & half for anything over 40 hours a week and he would typically stick around for 2 to 3 hours of OT a couple times a week)
So essentially, paying someone $60k a year to look at a machine every 15 minutes and say "yeah, it's still running".
...And then people wonder why they can't compete with Japanese cars.
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The problem with government oversight is that it is not connected to the people it affects. The government has many ineffeciencies. If a worker had their rights violated it could takedays for a first response from the government and months for a resolution while union rep could have the problem fixed in a day. As far as unions adding something I believe an oun ce. Of prevention is bettter than a pound of cure
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As I said too much power in one entity can and will be a problem. As far as your uncle's experience sounds like a managerial problem. I doubt a machine breaking down is a daily occurance. Those machines in manufacturing facilities often replace dozens if not hundreds of workers so paying one man to sit and wait for a tech is chump change.
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cobweb
Cranky octogenarian at heart
I work retail. I have been a loyal employee at the same store for nearly 7 years. I work hard and I go out of my way to serve the customers properly. I am a team trainer and am the most experienced person in my department. My bosses have in the past been verbally abusive and have thrown things at us. (Although they have been kinder in the past few years after we got together and complained.)
Every review I have received has been "excellent" or "outstanding" and I am still making less than $1 above federal minimum wage. I also receive no health insurance benefits as they make sure to keep my average hours per week slightly below full time.
I wonder sometimes if a union would help. I don't think any of us are willing to risk losing our jobs to find out. Most of us are there for the scheduling flexibility and it is hard to find that in most other lines of work.
Every review I have received has been "excellent" or "outstanding" and I am still making less than $1 above federal minimum wage. I also receive no health insurance benefits as they make sure to keep my average hours per week slightly below full time.
I wonder sometimes if a union would help. I don't think any of us are willing to risk losing our jobs to find out. Most of us are there for the scheduling flexibility and it is hard to find that in most other lines of work.
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dies-l
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cobweb said:
You would do marginally better with a union (until your dues come our of your paycheck), but you would jeopardize your employment if you didn't fully support the union come contract negotiation time. My ex wife was a union member in a retail store (UFCW), and the union hurt the employees much more than it helped.
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WHAT!!! Abusive trainers no benefits and less than minimum wage! You need to find a good lawyer and own that company. Do it for the sake of you and your co workers. You need to think a little more highly of yourself than that (GOD DOES). How much is your time worth? Your paycheck is them buying your life from you. You want flexibility? Maybe look at working at a church or a church ministry (daycare). They have entry level positions (part-time as well), usually pay fair and actually care about people they employ (they are a church) and alot provide insurance.
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That's very true. Me & my buddy back in high school both worked in grocery stores part-time (25 hours a week). The one I was at was non-union, his was union (he worked for a grocery store called "Tops" if anyone else remembers that place). He made $0.75 more an hour I did (I was at $5.75, he was at $6.50), by the time they took the $25 union dues out of each paycheck (on a 25 hour week), it equated to him losing a buck an hour and he actually made less than I did.
The worst part is, it wasn't optional, you had to pay union dues if you worked there (part of the store's contract with the union).
The union he was in only guarenteed benefits for full time employees who were 18 or older. So, essentially, they were just ripping off 15-17 year olds & part time employees who worked there. All they got was a pat on the back and a "you're contributing to a good cause"
But as the old saying goes, there's only an 18 inch difference between a pat on the back and a kick in the....well, you know
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Paying one guy to sit might be chump change, but how many other places in the plant was this occuring? ...and in how many other plants?
Not sure if there are any Canadians on this forum willing to commment, but a friend of the family who keeps an eye on our cabin up there used to be a member of the CAW and worked for a GM plant up there. He said about 4 years ago, they plugged a lot of these types of money leaks and it appeared to drop the vehicle prices quite a bit within 2 years.
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