Organ in Church Services

Anglicanism

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Do you like the use of the Pipe Organ in services of the Church of England?

I for one think it's marvellous (although I am subject to biased since I play) and creates an atmosphere for majesty and magnificence to exalt the King of King's and the Lord of Lord's.

Do you not agree?

I find it so annoying that in our church we also have a grand piano in the chancel and the lady who comes to our village to play for the Morning Prayer and Holy Communion services uses the piano and not the organ and I don't feel that same sense of reverence - anyone else have a similar experience?

"Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord."
Ephesians 5:19
 

Obzocky

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I do not think I have regularly attended a church that lacked a pipe organ, the use of a piano instead would remind me of singing morning hymns in school assembly. The pipe organ (in my uneducated opinion) creates a wonderful atmosphere, serving as a reminder of why we have come together and the nature of our worship.
 
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MichaelNZ

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I'm young and I love organ music. I wouldn't regularly attend a church that had a "praise band" because I prefer an organ (and preferably a choir as well, but then I suppose I'm biased in this regard because I used to sing in my church choir up in Wellington).
 
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I'm young and I love organ music. I wouldn't regularly attend a church that had a "praise band" because I prefer an organ (and preferably a choir as well, but then I suppose I'm biased in this regard because I used to sing in my church choir up in Wellington).

Yeah, I can definitely appreciate how that there are people, young and not so young, who love the organ. It's good to have different styles.

(P.S. I'm originally from Dunedin)
 
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mark46

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I'm not C of E, but I prefer keyboard and guitar.

In the end, IMHO, church style should be about bringing in seekers. Churches that have styles that appeal to the average or older parishioners will in the end become smaller and smaller. We have all seen this many times.

Yes, there are some young folk who love pipe organs on a regular basis. I just don't know any.

We need services where all our parishioners are fed. IMHO, this must include at least one service with music that appeals to teens and other young people. If that is our only service, so be it. A church that does not pass the faith to its children dies in a generation. Surely, those in Europe see this. Our rector just returned from Northern Ireland where the average weekly attendance in the 29 church of the diocese he visited was 34. Yes, I believe that music makes a difference.
 
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Timothy

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Speaking as someone who is a professional pianist and organist, good piano beats crap organ (both in the instruments themselves and in the playing quality) and is much more versatile. Pipe organ maintenance is extremely expensive, plus useless with other instruments as it goes sharp when they go flat and vice versa. Organ is only useful for certain hymns as well, many just don't suit.

Tim
 
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MKJ

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Yes, I'm fond of the pipe organ. We have a very nice one in our church. It occasionally gets used for professional concerts as well as Sunday Eucharists and Evensongs.

I'm not old either by the way, we have a lot of young people in our parish. At least one of them is learning to play.
 
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Albion

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I wouldn't trade a pipe organ for anything else, but I find that it's the selection of hymns that is the most important thing. BTW, and thinking of Timothy's comments, the reason the pianist in the OP doesn't use the organ may be that she simply is unable to do justice to it. A lot of people think that if you can play one, you can play the other, but not so if we're talking old pipe organs.
 
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mark46

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THIS IS SOMEWHAT OFF-TOPIC

What is the average age of your congregations? What is your average Sunday attendance? Are your churches growing? IMHO, deciding whether pianos are preferred to organs will not draw very many into the church, and may keep many out. Of course, many young folk love the organ, and the violin too no doubt.

IMHO, we will not reach the unchurched without having services that appeal to the unchurched, and especially the young. And I am not talking about a youth prayer meeting. We need to be a place where the lost and the unchurched can come comfortably.

We have no need to water down doctrine. We do have a need to the purpose of church is not to have the kind of music that pleases us most, or have the musci that church has always had. We need to remember that the many of the hymns of the 16th century were set to popular tavern tunes, using tavern instruments like the piano.
 
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cobweb

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THIS IS SOMEWHAT OFF-TOPIC

What is the average age of your congregations? What is your average Sunday attendance? Are your churches growing? IMHO, deciding whether pianos are preferred to organs will not draw very many into the church, and may keep many out. Of course, many young folk love the organ, and the violin too no doubt.

IMHO, we will not reach the unchurched without having services that appeal to the unchurched, and especially the young. And I am not talking about a youth prayer meeting. We need to be a place where the lost and the unchurched can come comfortably.

We have no need to water down doctrine. We do have a need to the purpose of church is not to have the kind of music that pleases us most, or have the musci that church has always had. We need to remember that the many of the hymns of the 16th century were set to popular tavern tunes, using tavern instruments like the piano.

(Not going to debate... I swear. I just want to understand this perspective)

Can you explain why? I really am curious why the music would need to be changed to attract new people.

I don't have a horse in this race as we traditionally do not use any instruments during services. We do have several elderly in our parish, but most are 20-30 somethings with lots of children.
 
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Albion

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Let's remember that the OP only asked which instrument we prefer. There was no suggestion that we should include practical considerations such as which is the most appealing to non-members, which helps our evangelism the most, which costs the most, which takes up the most space, or anything else like that.

The question was simply--

Do you like the use of the Pipe Organ in services of the Church of England?
 
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mark46

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I recognized and noted that I was off-topic.

Let's remember that the OP only asked which instrument we prefer. There was no suggestion that we should include practical considerations such as which is the most appealing to non-members, which helps our evangelism the most, which costs the most, which takes up the most space, or anything else like that.

The question was simply--
 
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MKJ

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I wouldn't trade a pipe organ for anything else, but I find that it's the selection of hymns that is the most important thing. BTW, and thinking of Timothy's comments, the reason the pianist in the OP doesn't use the organ may be that she simply is unable to do justice to it. A lot of people think that if you can play one, you can play the other, but not so if we're talking old pipe organs.

Yes, this is true. Even with a new pipe organ it is not the same, it is very easy to deafen the whole congregation of leave them with a buzzing headache.

THIS IS SOMEWHAT OFF-TOPIC

What is the average age of your congregations? What is your average Sunday attendance? Are your churches growing? IMHO, deciding whether pianos are preferred to organs will not draw very many into the church, and may keep many out. Of course, many young folk love the organ, and the violin too no doubt.

IMHO, we will not reach the unchurched without having services that appeal to the unchurched, and especially the young. And I am not talking about a youth prayer meeting. We need to be a place where the lost and the unchurched can come comfortably.

We have no need to water down doctrine. We do have a need to the purpose of church is not to have the kind of music that pleases us most, or have the musci that church has always had. We need to remember that the many of the hymns of the 16th century were set to popular tavern tunes, using tavern instruments like the piano.

Our parish, I believe, has about 100 families. THat is how many I counted on our parish prayer list in any case. I am not sure of weekly attendance. It is less this time of year, in part because of vacations and in part because a significan number of the parishoners are university students attending locally.

The congregation has a fairly wide age distribution for an Anglican parish. There are as I noted lots of students, but also lots of young families with small children. There seems to be a bit of a dip between the those groups and the seniors.

Growth has been quite high in recent years, which is where many of the young families came from. Our nursery had to be moved to a larger space and may have to move again - the Sunday school is about to take up the new population as well.

What has attracted people to the parish has NOT been an effort to appeal to the unchurched (and many of the students were before coming to us.) It is an integrity of worship that became a focus a number of years ago that led to an emphasis on really substantial, well done liturgy as the expression of and heart of the communal life of the parish. That means, for example, the daily offices being offered in the parish. That has also born fruit in attention to the music program which is a major attraction for many newcomers, though that is not why it was developed. It was developed as an appropriate response to God. It started fairly small (before my time) and has grown over the years.

As for what the music looks like - Our parish sings the weekly mass settings, usually in polyphony. They may be older ones or modern. Psalms are sung responsivly in plainchant by the cantor and congregation. Hymns are largely traditional though not always, with organ accompanyment. The choir usually sings a post-communion motet which is often, but not always, fairly contemporary (but not pop-ish or folksy.) We also have in the past year started a music program for children. There is usually an organ postlude.

And just in case anyone thinks this is all style and no substance, our communal prayer and worship life has also produced a pretty significant mission program in the local, depressed, neighbourhood.
 
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MKJ

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(Not going to debate... I swear. I just want to understand this perspective)

Can you explain why? I really am curious why the music would need to be changed to attract new people.

I don't have a horse in this race as we traditionally do not use any instruments during services. We do have several elderly in our parish, but most are 20-30 somethings with lots of children.

The idea is that if you have music that appeals to a particular demographic group, they are more likely to attend. Usually people think that more "pop" style music appeals to younger people, so offering that will draw them in. While "serious" or classical music is going to drive them away.

Apparently pianos and guitars are attractive to young people, while organs aren't. I think Orthodox liturgical music would also be in the "not attractive to youth" category, FWIW.
 
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elahmine

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I perfer a good old pipe organ myself, and I am young. I don't mind guitars and keyboard so much, but I dislike praise bands especially loud ones. I want to feel like I'm going to church not rock concert. I don't think churches should change to appeal to one age group over the other. The point of the hymns is to praise and worship God. It doesn't matter whether it is a pipe organ or a guitar. If you find a good church, but you're just not fond of the musical instruments go buy a CD that has the music you like and use it for personal praise and worship on your own time.
 
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Maid Marie

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Do you like the use of the Pipe Organ in services of the Church of England?

...I find it so annoying that in our church we also have a grand piano in the chancel and the lady who comes to our village to play for the Morning Prayer and Holy Communion services uses the piano and not the organ and I don't feel that same sense of reverence - anyone else have a similar experience?

I perfer a good old pipe organ myself, and I am young. I don't mind guitars and keyboard so much, but I dislike praise bands especially loud ones. I want to feel like I'm going to church not rock concert.

I would love to have even a grand piano for my church services. My Nazarene church only has a rock band. It is so loud that I have to wear noise dampening headphones to the first part of church. Talk about killing reverence.

So, I go to the Episcopal church next door for worship. Rarely when I can make it to the 10 AM service I hear the beautiful organ. But usually only the 8 AM service is what I can make it to. It has no music :( but at least my ears do not hurt. I love the reverence of the silence.

For the Wed service that I go to at another Episcopal church, I play the flute for the communion time.
 
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