The Apostles' Creed

StogusMaximus · Feb 26, 2002

What are your thoughts on the Apostles' Creed?
Do you say in church?
Do you question any of it?

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I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.

StogusMaximus · Feb 26, 2002

When I first heard it, I was a little confused with the line, "I believe in the.....holy catholic church"

I was raised a Baptist and I am now a Methodist, so the first thing I thought was, "Why are we saying we believe in the Catholic church?" (Catholics, please don't take offense to this. It would be the same thing if you said I believe in the Holy Baptist Church.)

So I felt really uneasy, so much so that I decided to look for another church. I did not want my Methodist preacher teaching me Catholic aspects.

It was just recently that I was taught line by line the meaning of the Apostles' Creed and I really take it to heart now. I also learned that my lack of understanding of the term catholic church. I was told to think if it with the little "c" not the big "C". The word "catholic" refers not to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ

InspectorVol · Feb 26, 2002

Who descended into hell Jesus? I did a simple search and didn't find that. Where is it?

filosofer · Feb 26, 2002

Several passages hint at it, but most likely based on 1 Peter 3:19-20 ("preaching victory to the spirits in prison").

StogusMaximus · Feb 26, 2002

Page where I pulled the creed:
http://www.reformed.org/documents/apostles_creed.html

John Calvin's Explanation:
http://www.reformed.org/documents/Christ_in_hell/index.html

I have heard it both with and without that line. In a recent sermon my pastor discussed that line as pointing to Jesus preaching to the quick and the dead after his crucifixion. He was saying that Jesus was crucified, died, and buried, He descended into hell...preached to the dead..., The third day he rose and ascended into heaven.

What are your thoughts on it? Should that line be removed or kept in?

ZiSunka · Feb 26, 2002

We recited it at my baptism, just before the dunking. It was a fine service, containing a tesitmony, singing, much scripture reading and finally, communion. I really loved it because it was more than a dip in a pool!

You know that "catholic" means, "universal" or "unified," right? In the version we read at the baptism, we said, "one holy Church" which means the same thing as "the holy catholic church," without the confusion with the Catholic Church organization.

Optimus_P · Feb 26, 2002

Altho it was not written by an Apostle I do believe the NASB says he decended into hades (a waiting room for the dead if you will not hell not heaven) and as far as mention of the catholic church. Take it as a universal meaning of any church in Christ. The creed is supposed to embody the core components of your beliefs.

The History of the Apostles Creed
What is a Creed?
A creed is simply a statement of faith. When asked by Jesus Christ, "Who do you say that I am?" Peters response was his creed: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God." (Matt. 16:15-16 NASB) The English word "creed" comes from "credo" which means "I believe."

The following points will summarize the background of creeds in general:

Creeds vary according to form.
Creeds vary according to content.
Creeds contain the statements of belief that the authors believed were necessary for salvation or to the well-being of the true church.
Most creeds arose out of a need to address with the truth a particular heresy circulating at the time. Thus each creed tends to place an emphasis on the principle of faith under attack at that time.
Creeds are always subordinate to the Bible.
The value of a creed is dependant upon its measure of agreement with Scripture.

The Value of Creeds
I grew up in a denomination which does not use the historical creeds. My understanding is that there was a concern that the creeds would supplant the Scriptures. After a careful study of the creeds I have come to value them as an aid in sharing the fundamentals of the Christian faith with non-believers. They are also valuable for distinguishing the true church from her imposters. I particularly regard the Apostles Creed as beneficial for these purposes. Martin Luther said "Christian truth could not possibly be put into a shorter and clearer statement" than that which is contained in the Apostles Creed.

The Apostles Creed
The Apostles Creed was not written by the Apostles, but is in full agreement with the teaching of the Apostles as contained in the New Testament. The earliest trace of the Apostles Creed goes back to Ignatius who lived in the late 1st and early 2nd century AD. In his writings he states that Christ was truly born "of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified and died and was raised from the dead." As a whole, the complete text of the Apostles Creed cannot be traced beyond the end of the 5th century AD.

For Further Study
The Creeds of Christendom, edited by Philip Schaff, revised by David S. Schaff. Reprinted by Baker Books, Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1993. Volume I: The History of Creeds; Volume II: The Greek and Latin Creeds; Volume III: The Evangelical Protestant Creeds.

Blackhawk · Feb 26, 2002

I like it. I am baptist so the Bible is our creed. That is what has been taught I think mainly because of the problems in many churches with denominational rules vs. the Bible. Hwever if we look at the apostle's (nicene also) they line up with scripture so I think that they are great.

good post Optimus_P. you said already a lot of what I would say.

blackhaw6

kimanne · Feb 26, 2002

We say the Apostles Creed in my church too, and I have always had problems with the decending into hell part. My family and I refused to say that line. The Pastor explained to me that Jesus decended into hades, or the land of the dead. It is to signify that Jesus died a real, human death. I understand now, but we still refuse to say it because that is not what the line actually says and we will not compromise our beliefs.

AngelAmidala · Feb 26, 2002

Originally posted by StogusMaximus
When I first heard it, I was a little confused with the line, "I believe in the.....holy catholic church"

I was raised a Baptist and I am now a Methodist, so the first thing I thought was, "Why are we saying we believe in the Catholic church?" (Catholics, please don't take offense to this. It would be the same thing if you said I believe in the Holy Baptist Church.)

That was me too...except for the raised Baptist part. I went to a Presbyterian church for the first 10 years of my life before going to the Methodist church I do now.

But anyway, when I first started to go the Methodist church, the Apostle's Creed was part of all our services. It was said after the sermon was finished and before we gave the offering. But then after a few pastoral changes, we stopped doing it. And at first my reaction was, "I'm not Catholic, so why are we saying this creed about the Catholic church???" So I refused to say the word. When we got to that word I would just not say it, or I'd replace it with what I thought was an "alternate" word used by people who thought like me...universal. After later study I came to realize that catholic in this sense did mean universal...so I really was saying universal...just with a different word.

Since we don't say it as often in my church services, I love it when we do get that chance. For some reason it means a lot more to me then a "response hymn" which is what we mostly have now after the sermon.

ZooMom · Feb 26, 2002

We say the Nicene Creed at every Mass. I much prefer it because it is a corporate creed and not a singular one. 'We' instead of 'I'. It is awesome to stand with 300+ other people and hear the church reverberate with it.

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
creator of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Nothing in that about Christ descending into hell, which I have never understood anyway. Even when I was Methodist.

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The Apostles' Creed

StogusMaximus

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StogusMaximus

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InspectorVol

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filosofer

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StogusMaximus

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ZiSunka

It means 'yellow dog'

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Optimus_P

Super Umpa Lumpa

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Blackhawk

Monkey Boy

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kimanne

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AngelAmidala

Legend

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ZooMom

Thanks for the memories...

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