Differences and Similarities between the OCA and ROCOR

Colleen1 · Jul 12, 2012

Hi, yes, I've decided to stick my foot in the water and start a thread. I do believe it is allowed.

I would like to have a clear understanding regarding the similarities and differences of the OCA and of the ROCOR. Thanks

InnerPhyre · Jul 12, 2012

ROCOR uses the Old Calendar and some or all of their services may be in Slavonic. They sometimes have stricter rules about how often one must go to confession in order to approach the chalice for Communion.

zoebliss · Jul 12, 2012

InnerPhyre said:
ROCOR uses the Old Calendar and some or all of their services may be in Slavonic. They sometimes have stricter rules about how often one must go to confession in order to approach the chalice for Communion.

true. confessions are basically once a week for rocor.

cobweb · Jul 12, 2012

zoebliss said:
true. confessions are basically once a week for rocor.

Yep.

In OCA the guidelines seem to be either once per month or each major fast (4 times per year). I've heard both from different priests.

Colleen1 · Jul 12, 2012

InnerPhyre said:
ROCOR uses the Old Calendar and some or all of their services may be in Slavonic.

This I understand.

InnerPhyre said:
They sometimes have stricter rules about how often one must go to confession in order to approach the chalice for Communion.

This I'd like to learn more about. When I phoned the OCA office here, I was a bit curious and confused as to what the differences in beliefs were or if there were any differences. Someone has already explained the jurisdictional set up so I'm okay with that aspect of things.

Colleen1 · Jul 12, 2012

zoebliss said:
true. confessions are basically once a week for rocor.

I see, thanks.

zoebliss · Jul 12, 2012

Colleen1 said:
I see, thanks.

there's more...

The ROCOR and the OCA have a complicated history of cooperation, rivalry, and sometimes outright hostility. These two jurisdictions, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR) and the Orthodox Church in America (OCA), both have their origins in the Church of Russia (a.k.a. the Moscow Patriarchate or MP), and their histories as clearly distinct and identifiable entities both stem from the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia in the early 20th century.
In examining this history, other names are used for the pre-1970 OCA, the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church in America (its official name) and the Metropolia (its common name). The ROCOR is also referred to as the Karlovtsy Synod (from its seminal formations in Serbia) or simply the Synod, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, or ROCA.

source - ROCOR and OCA - OrthodoxWiki

gzt · Jul 12, 2012

Here are my highly-opinionated remarks.

Everybody in ROCOR wears a high-back phelonion and nobody will ever EVER do a Byzantine/Greek setting of anything. In the OCA, both of those are negotiable. I think ROCOR wins that battle.

OCA is almost uniformly on the New Calendar. ROCOR is almost exclusively on the Old Calendar. Advantage: OCA.

ROCOR has a very small Western Rite. The OCA does not. Advantage: OCA.

I feel like the OCA has more density in America than ROCOR, while ROCOR is international. Advantage: OCA for me, since I'm in America.

ROCOR and the OCA historically had a lot of canonical problems, having been set adrift by the Russian Church and left to fend for themselves for a few decades. It wasn't until 1970 and the Tomos of Autocephaly that the OCA was sort of unambiguously back in communion with the rest of world Orthodoxy, but even then not everybody acknowledged the autocephaly (and they still don't!). ROCOR, on the other hand, didn't "come in from the cold" until 2007 with their reunion to Moscow. To this day, they still sort of look askance at some other jurisdictions.

A lot of the OCA parishes came from Carpatho-Russian Catholics who converted, whereas ROCOR was more Russian Russian Russian - this leads to some differences in "style" that persist to this day. My own OCA parish uses a more Russian style, so I can't comment extensively.

Okay, those are my remarks.

Colleen1 · Jul 12, 2012

zoebliss said:
there's more...

"The ROCOR and the OCA have a complicated history of cooperation, rivalry, and sometimes outright hostility. These two jurisdictions, the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR) and the Orthodox Church in America (OCA), both have their origins in the Church of Russia (a.k.a. the Moscow Patriarchate or MP), and their histories as clearly distinct and identifiable entities both stem from the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia in the early 20th century.

In examining this history, other names are used for the pre-1970 OCA, the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church in America (its official name) and the Metropolia (its common name). The ROCOR is also referred to as the Karlovtsy Synod (from its seminal formations in Serbia) or simply the Synod, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, or ROCA.

source - ROCOR and OCA - OrthodoxWiki"

Thanks, this is helpful. Since I'm not Orthodox, I can't be sure what sources of information would be reliable. I was also wondering about differences in beliefs.

I see the title, "the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church in America". However, I assume they are not Catholic.

Monica child of God 1 · Jul 12, 2012

Women wear head coverings and skirts in ROCOR. There will probably be a box of scarves at the candle counter and they may even have a few wrap skirts to be borrowed.

Headcoverings are more sporadic in the OCA just from my limited observation. Pants are acceptable for women.

Confession before each communion, but if you're taking communion twice in a week (like during lent or holy week) you don't have to confess again.

I've seen women read the epistle in an OCA church. I have not seen that yet in ROCOR. Maybe it happens.

I think some people in ROCOR are under the impression that people in the OCA don't fast as strictly. Not true in my experience. in my observation the fasting is the same.

I feel like the prayer rule (jordanville prayer book) is more set in ROCOR and more variable in the OCA. My observation is limited of course.

M.

zoebliss · Jul 12, 2012

true. we arent allowed to wear pants in rocor. head coverings vary from parish to parish but for sure you cannot recieve communion without a head scarf.

cobweb · Jul 12, 2012

zoebliss said:
true. we arent allowed to wear pants in rocor. head coverings vary from parish to parish but for sure you cannot recieve communion without a head scarf.

Unfortunately as many OCA parishes are multi-ethnic this could cause a problem. I know a few cradle Orthodox from countries under Turkish/Muslim yoke who would not be comfortable at all covering their hair. They don't have a problem with those of us who do wear scarves, but it could be an issue if it were mandatory.

snowpumpkin · Jul 12, 2012

zoebliss said:
true. we arent allowed to wear pants in rocor. head coverings vary from parish to parish but for sure you cannot recieve communion without a head scarf.

Our American convert Presyvtera in my Greek church is about the only woman in our church to wear a head covering. And she actually pulls it down off of her hair when receiving communion and then pulls it back up as she's walking away.

Monica child of God 1 · Jul 12, 2012

cobweb said:
Unfortunately as many OCA parishes are multi-ethnic this could cause a problem. I know a few cradle Orthodox from countries under Turkish/Muslim yoke who would not be comfortable at all covering their hair. They don't have a problem with those of us who do wear scarves, but it could be an issue if it were mandatory.

I don't FEEL it to be mandatory. Maybe it is, but it doesn't feel heavy handed or anything. ROCOR priests do extend economia when it is warranted pastorally.

M.

Colleen1 · Jul 12, 2012

gzt said:
Here are my highly-opinionated remarks.

Everybody in ROCOR wears a high-back phelonion and nobody will ever EVER do a Byzantine/Greek setting of anything. In the OCA, both of those are negotiable. I think ROCOR wins that battle.

Can you expound on your reasoning? You mean Byzantine / Greek in just style or belief? Thanks.

gzt said:
ROCOR and the OCA historically had a lot of canonical problems, having been set adrift by the Russian Church and left to fend for themselves for a few decades.

This I gathered.

What's the actual name of the Russian Church?

This I can't remember. Is there a flow chart of this organizational structure from a historical perspective? ...or where would I find such information?

gzt said:
It wasn't until 1970 and the Tomos of Autocephaly that the OCA was sort of unambiguously back in communion with the rest of world Orthodoxy, but even then not everybody acknowledged the autocephaly (and they still don't!). ROCOR, on the other hand, didn't "come in from the cold" until 2007 with their reunion to Moscow. To this day, they still sort of look askance at some other jurisdictions.

Thanks, this is helpful. So OCA is basically considered part of the original church (Russian Church) now while ROCOR still is adrift a fair bit?

gzt said:
A lot of the OCA parishes came from Carpatho-Russian Catholics who converted, whereas ROCOR was more Russian Russian Russian - this leads to some differences in "style" that persist to this day. My own OCA parish uses a more Russian style, so I can't comment extensively.

Thanks, this is helpful. So there is just a difference in style of service etc. or in beliefs as well?

So considering all of this, where would a Canadian Greek Orthodox Church and a Canadian Russo Orthodox church fit in to all of this? ...and would they both be part of the OAC or what other information would determine this?

Colleen1 · Jul 12, 2012

cobweb said:
Yep.

In OCA the guidelines seem to be either once per month or each major fast (4 times per year). I've heard both from different priests.

Thanks, this is helpful.

Colleen1 · Jul 12, 2012

Monica said:
Women wear head coverings and skirts in ROCOR. There will probably be a box of scarves at the candle counter and they may even have a few wrap skirts to be borrowed.

Headcoverings are more sporadic in the OCA just from my limited observation. Pants are acceptable for women.

Confession before each communion, but if you're taking communion twice in a week (like during lent or holy week) you don't have to confess again.

I've seen women read the epistle in an OCA church. I have not seen that yet in ROCOR. Maybe it happens.

I think some people in ROCOR are under the impression that people in the OCA don't fast as strictly. Not true in my experience. in my observation the fasting is the same.

I feel like the prayer rule (jordanville prayer book) is more set in ROCOR and more variable in the OCA. My observation is limited of course.

M.

Thanks for your post. It helps clarify certain issues I was wondering about.

Dare I ask if what is termed 'White Russian' is a spin off of the ROCOR or is it the same?

Colleen1 · Jul 12, 2012

zoebliss said:
true. we arent allowed to wear pants in rocor. head coverings vary from parish to parish but for sure you cannot recieve communion without a head scarf.

You cannot receive communion without a head scarf in either OCA and ROCOR or just in ROCOR?

Colleen1 · Jul 12, 2012

cobweb said:
Unfortunately as many OCA parishes are multi-ethnic this could cause a problem. I know a few cradle Orthodox from countries under Turkish/Muslim yoke who would not be comfortable at all covering their hair. They don't have a problem with those of us who do wear scarves, but it could be an issue if it were mandatory.

Interesting. Thanks.

Can you refresh my memory and explain the term 'cradle Orthodox'?

Colleen1 · Jul 12, 2012

snowpumpkin said:
Our American convert Presyvtera in my Greek church is about the only woman in our church to wear a head covering. And she actually pulls it down off of her hair when receiving communion and then pulls it back up as she's walking away.

Interesting. Thanks

Differences and Similarities between the OCA and ROCOR

Legend

Well-Known Member

noob

Cranky octogenarian at heart

Legend

Legend

noob

The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years

Legend

strives to live eschatologically

noob

Cranky octogenarian at heart

Newbie

strives to live eschatologically

Legend

Legend

Legend

Legend

Legend

Legend

Similar threads