Need motivation to continue reading Ware's book

There should be an Orthodoxy for Dummies

ArmyMatt said:

yeah, that is prolly the best starter for an
inquirer. he is very straight forward and simple in his writing.

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MariaRegina said:

Have you ever read Becoming Orthodox by Father Peter Gilquist? May his memory be eternal. I think this one reads more interesting than Ware's.

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I've read that one a couple times~also Thirsting For God in a Land of Shallow Wells by Gallatin ~that one was sent to me by either anonykat or kamikat (some TAW posters I don't see around anymore)...but they are more "conversion" stories than history so they are more "sensational" to read I suppose

I feel your pain. I could not get through it at all. Not sure why.

there is a study guide called A Seeker's Manuel by Fr Mark Hodges that you all might wanna check out.

ArmyMatt said:

there is a study guide called A Seeker's Manuel by Fr Mark Hodges that you all might wanna check out.

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Thanks that does sound good. Found it at lulu.com...amazon didn't have it.

MrJim said:

Thanks that does sound good. Found it at lulu.com...amazon didn't have it.

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yeah, I have leafed through it and he has a lot of good stuff in there.

how about that book by Frederica Matthews?

Lady Bug said:

I don't want to start a new book when I have "only" 70 pages left of this one. My focus is on getting this one done.

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Please do not feel that you must complete any book from cover to cover.

I have started books which I did not finish. Sometimes we must trust our instincts if something about the readings bother us or if the leadings of the Holy Spirit prompt us to put it down or discard it. For example, I purchased some books from Regina Orthodox Press that I have discarded as the authors were either boasting about themselves or seemed to have a judgmental attitude, neither of which are conducive to theosis.

Sometimes I wonder if some people are trying too hard when inquiring into Orthodoxy. Perhaps just a decent pocket prayer book that includes the sacraments, feast & fast days, creed, the DL etc. alongside a Bible focusing on the daily lectionary while attending the DL (depending on circumstances of course) is enough. On my own, I had read "Early Christian Writings" (Didache, Ignatian epistles etc.). When I was a catechumen, these were my basic resources while I was verbally instructed during catechesis on the whole church.

I did not start reading books by Bishop Ware, Philokalia, etc. until after chrismation. It is up to the inquirer of course & depth should always be encouraged.

I concur. My priest, Father George, told Kate and I that being an expert isn't the requirement to be Orthodox. He emphasized the fact that we went, almost every Sunday, to DL and really took it seriously. We prayed hard, had the basics, and faithfully worshipped the RIGHT way. He said that is the prime ingredient. According to Father, the finer details will come with time. He said, though, that my knowledge of Orthodoxy was wayyyyyyy beyond the typical catechuman. Now, personally, I think guys like ArmyMatt, Macarius (!!!!), Rus, and many others here are way more knowledgable than me, no doubt, but Father said most people who come to inquire are way behind where I was. My wife wasn't into the theology as deep as what I read, but she listened a lot to what I read when I explained it. I have this annoying habit of reading something and telling everyone around me the basics every day. So she learned second hand what I was learning. She still is learning and reading, growing in it. But honestly, it's about worship.

I found that heartening, that Orthodoxy is so supernatural, spiritual, mystical on top of its tremendous mountain of theological wealth. They don't require you to have a spiritual IQ to get in. The Orthodox ethos with chrismation vs. the Catholic ethos with "confirmation" speaks volumes IMHO. Orthodoxy isn't a "prove-yourself" obstacle course like what I saw in Catholicism round these here parts. Once you're in Orthodoxy, it's amazing how you grow in spirituality. I have been blown away how the Orthodox sacraments are benefitting me spiritually and personally. It's quite startling.

Lukaris said:

Sometimes I wonder if some people are trying too hard when inquiring into Orthodoxy. Perhaps just a decent pocket prayer book that includes the sacraments, feast & fast days, creed, the DL etc. alongside a Bible focusing on the daily lectionary while attending the DL (depending on circumstances of course) is enough. On my own, I had read "Early Christian Writings" (Didache, Ignatian epistles etc.). When I was a catechumen, these were my basic resources while I was verbally instructed during catechesis on the whole church.

I did not start reading books by Bishop Ware, Philokalia, etc. until after chrismation. It is up to the inquirer of course & depth should always be encouraged.

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Well stated.

As I posted in another thread:

Sometimes, we need to put our intellects on hold, especially when we are attending the Holy Services of the Orthodox Church.

Be a participant ... put aside all earthly cares ... and join with the heavenly worship as much as you are able. Even though you cannot receive Holy Communion, you can do what I did as an inquirer and then catechumen ...
notice the love, respect, and awe as people approach the Holy Mystery. Realize that Christ is truly present all around you at the moment when Holy Communion is distributed. Then you will be crying tears of sorrow as you repent of your sins and disbelief, and then tears of joy as you embrace Christ in your Orthodox brothers and sisters.

Then compare the Novus Ordo of the Catholics. This sanctified Lutheran Liturgy is so shallow. Why did the Vatican force this pitiful liturgy on its people? Then ask yourself, why did over 25 million Catholics in the USA leave Roman Catholicism from 1965 to 1990 according to the Catholic World Report? Why have countless former Roman Catholics converted to Orthodoxy or left Catholicism for Protestantism?

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Again, let your heart (nous) guide and guard you with the promptings of the Holy Spirit. And the only way is to pray daily throughout the day from a good Orthodox Prayerbook until you can pray those prayers by heart, and then those prayers become a part of you.

gurneyhalleck1 said:

I concur. My priest, Father George, told Kate and I that being an expert isn't the requirement to be Orthodox. He emphasized the fact that we went, almost every Sunday, to DL and really took it seriously. We prayed hard, had the basics, and faithfully worshipped the RIGHT way. He said that is the prime ingredient. According to Father, the finer details will come with time. He said, though, that my knowledge of Orthodoxy was wayyyyyyy beyond the typical catechuman. Now, personally, I think guys like ArmyMatt, Macarius (!!!!), Rus, and many others here are way more knowledgable than me, no doubt, but Father said most people who come to inquire are way behind where I was. My wife wasn't into the theology as deep as what I read, but she listened a lot to what I read when I explained it. I have this annoying habit of reading something and telling everyone around me the basics every day. So she learned second hand what I was learning. She still is learning and reading, growing in it. But honestly, it's about worship.

I found that heartening, that Orthodoxy is so supernatural, spiritual, mystical on top of its tremendous mountain of theological wealth. They don't require you to have a spiritual IQ to get in. The Orthodox ethos with chrismation vs. the Catholic ethos with "confirmation" speaks volumes IMHO. Orthodoxy isn't a "prove-yourself" obstacle course like what I saw in Catholicism round these here parts. Once you're in Orthodoxy, it's amazing how you grow in spirituality. I have been blown away how the Orthodox sacraments are benefitting me spiritually and personally. It's quite startling.

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Lady Bug said:

I don't want to start a new book when I have "only" 70 pages left of this one. My focus is on getting this one done.

Click to expand...

MariaRegina said:

Please do not feel that you must complete any book from cover to cover.

I have started books which I did not finish. Sometimes we must trust our instincts if something about the readings bother us or if the leadings of the Holy Spirit prompt us to put it down or discard it. For example, I purchased some books from Regina Orthodox Press that I have discarded as the authors were either boasting about themselves or seemed to have a judgmental attitude, neither of which are conducive to theosis.

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What MR says. Sometimes WE are not ready for a book and need to come back to it in five or ten years. If it's torture, don't torture yourself.

rusmeister said:

What MR says. Sometimes WE are not ready for a book and need to come back to it in five or ten years. If it's torture, don't torture yourself.

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Yeah I remember a story Fr Hopko told about in his early years he loved St Silouan but thought Elder Sophrony didn't make any sense no matter how hard he tried to understand...and that it was only years later that he finally "got it".

Us seekers reading so much; in my case I have no contact apart from cyberspace with Orthodox believers so books fill in the gap, and yeah you guys are right when you say about giving the intellect a break but because (in my case and I expect others) we often need to be able to answer questions from family and friends and baptists why we're going in that direction...which in one sense is crazy because I make a poor Orthodox apologist but I at least need some study to be able to pick up a bible and history and point to "why" when asked...don't think I'm doing too awful bad though

gurneyhalleck1 said:

I concur. My priest, Father George, told Kate and I that being an expert isn't the requirement to be Orthodox. He emphasized the fact that we went, almost every Sunday, to DL and really took it seriously. We prayed hard, had the basics, and faithfully worshipped the RIGHT way. He said that is the prime ingredient. According to Father, the finer details will come with time. He said, though, that my knowledge of Orthodoxy was wayyyyyyy beyond the typical catechuman. Now, personally, I think guys like ArmyMatt, Macarius (!!!!), Rus, and many others here are way more knowledgable than me, no doubt, but Father said most people who come to inquire are way behind where I was. My wife wasn't into the theology as deep as what I read, but she listened a lot to what I read when I explained it. I have this annoying habit of reading something and telling everyone around me the basics every day. So she learned second hand what I was learning. She still is learning and reading, growing in it. But honestly, it's about worship.

I found that heartening, that Orthodoxy is so supernatural, spiritual, mystical on top of its tremendous mountain of theological wealth. They don't require you to have a spiritual IQ to get in. The Orthodox ethos with chrismation vs. the Catholic ethos with "confirmation" speaks volumes IMHO. Orthodoxy isn't a "prove-yourself" obstacle course like what I saw in Catholicism round these here parts. Once you're in Orthodoxy, it's amazing how you grow in spirituality. I have been blown away how the Orthodox sacraments are benefitting me spiritually and personally. It's quite startling.

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I think this post is spot on (aside from lumping me with a guy like Macarius or Rus). the true theologian is the one who prays, and waits for God to illumine him. God knows how and when to tell us things. this is prolly why some of Orthodoxy's most profound statements, are also the most simple.

Yeah, Matt, you're right. What was I thinking? Using the word "prolly" makes you sound like a small-town sheriff like JW Pepper. Can't put you up there with Maximos the confessor quite yet. Sorry LOL

Actually I think it's a cool way to type it.

I like "muhself" muhself

btw, I had a guy today at coffee hour say he thinks Frasier is genius and Seinfeld sucks. I was wanting to have the guy excommunicated LOL...we need to get back to Kramerisms!

ArmyMatt said:

I think this post is spot on (aside from lumping me with a guy like Macarius or Rus). the true theologian is the one who prays, and waits for God to illumine him. God knows how and when to tell us things. this is prolly why some of Orthodoxy's most profound statements, are also the most simple.

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gurneyhalleck1 said:

Yeah, Matt, you're right. What was I thinking? Using the word "prolly" makes you sound like a small-town sheriff like JW Pepper. Can't put you up there with Maximos the confessor quite yet. Sorry LOL

Actually I think it's a cool way to type it.

I like "muhself" muhself

btw, I had a guy today at coffee hour say he thinks Frasier is genius and Seinfeld sucks. I was wanting to have the guy excommunicated LOL...we need to get back to Kramerisms!

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Frasier... in Cheers... was genius. Along with the rest of Cheers, that is.

His own show though, was booooooooooooooring.

i kind of liked Frasier...

I'm a purist from the King of Queens and Seinfeld academies!

I like how I've been humbled by God the past 2-3 weeks, and His revealing to me how much I really DON'T know, and what's nice is I don't feel the pressure or need to KNOW everything theologically anymore. I am ok with just taking it easy and reading what I am feeling interested in reading spiritually, but not going overboard, which I've got the tendency to do on many things. My mom used to use this saying on me when I'd get interested in something from my childhood years and up, "She's got a bee in her bonnet."

So, it's kinda nice to just chill and not care and not feel ashamed if I don't know the answer to something.