Ice Breaker: Committed

tannicv2

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There was a day when we vowed to stay together for better or worse, til death do us part.

Is this even showed in marriage these days?

Where some divorce in a matter of months over issues that can be solved between each other. When one is looking out for "number one" and leave their spouse because things are not looking good. IS this really commitment?
 

makeitwork

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no it's not a commitment..i read that 50% of marriages end in divorce...how sad.

marriage isn't sacred anymore... in some states same sex marriages is legalized.

i know two marriages that could have been saved...but both parties were too prideful and refused to seek a marriage counselor. one ended after 32 years of marriage and the other after 25 years of marriage.

i believe that marriage is a two way street, you can't blame one person and not the other...don't get me wrong... if the spouse is abusive or is endangering the family than it's time to let go of the marriage...but look at the 2 marriages i just mentioned above... not just prideful but no communication, no emotional support, no intimacy, and lost themselves into their work.

all of this could have been easily resolved if they would just examine themselves instead of blaming the other person.

faith needs to step in...CHRIST needs to be the foundation of marriages...not money, education, job title, or material things.
 
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WolfGate

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There was a day when we vowed to stay together for better or worse, til death do us part.

Most people do vow that on their wedding day.

Is this even showed in marriage these days?

In some marriages, yes. Not enough, IMHO. While recognizing there are biblical grounds for divorce and that in some cases those grounds should be used, I do sense that too many people go into marriage with at least a back of the mind thought that if things don't work out, well...

At the same time, you can find examples of people who worked through the issues, stayed committed, and are now happy in marriage.

Where some divorce in a matter of months over issues that can be solved between each other. When one is looking out for "number one" and leave their spouse because things are not looking good. IS this really commitment?

Of course it isn't.
 
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Cjwinnit

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i know two marriages that could have been saved...but both parties were too prideful and refused to seek a marriage counselor. one ended after 32 years of marriage and the other after 25 years of marriage.

I remember something Mark Gungor said about marriage and I hope it will stick with me for life.

Marriage isn't about 50/50 - it's about 100/100.
 
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tannicv2

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Is there any divorce that isn't caused by one or both parties not following the instructions of Ephesians 5?

I believe so but not following the first instruction I believe is the problem. Is not committing to God first and foremost could be the reason why there are so many divorces? In my opinion yes.


Note to everyone: let's keep the two most controversial scriptures out and let's talk commitment and commitment to God. Since its the first instruction.
 
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tannicv2

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when i use to work outside the home...there was a coworker that decided she wanted to divorce her husband because she fell out of love for him.

IMO I believe when two fall out of love. That usually takes a LONG time without both parties working on the marriage.
 
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WolfGate

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when i use to work outside the home...there was a coworker that decided she wanted to divorce her husband because she fell out of love for him.

Poor reason to divorce. Not at all biblical grounds. And she owns that. The old cliche "love is a verb" really does apply. The feelings may ebb and flow, but love does not if both are (as someone said earlier) treating marriage as 100/100. I know in my sample of one that when my feeling for DW had decreased, deciding to focus on loving her (as a verb) resulted in feelings eventually returning.

(Assuming of course no hypotheticals about his improper or unbiblical actions causing her feelings to fade)
 
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tannicv2

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Poor reason to divorce. Not at all biblical grounds. And she owns that. The old cliche "love is a verb" really does apply. The feelings may ebb and flow, but love does not if both are (as someone said earlier) treating marriage as 100/100. I know in my sample of one that when my feeling for DW had decreased, deciding to focus on loving her (as a verb) resulted in feelings eventually returning.

(Assuming of course no hypotheticals about his improper or unbiblical actions causing her feelings to fade)

I agree with the 100/100. However do you believe problems can occur when the that ratio is not 1. Example 95/100.
 
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WolfGate

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I agree with the 100/100. However do you believe problems can occur when the that ratio is not 1. Example 95/100.

Sure! And no marriage is perfectly 100/100. We all are imperfect and all fail to meet that standard at times. But striving to be that 100/100 should correct and overcome the times when it will get out of balance.

Succesful marriage is not about achieving perfection. It is about the desire to be as perfect in loving our spouse as we can.
 
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LinkH

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The idea in our culture is that love is something you have no control over, and that we are just blown around like a balloon being blown around by the wind.

The Bible says "Love thy neighbor" and "Husbands, love your wives" and that older women are to teach younger women to love their husbands.

If a husband and wife find that they don't love each other any more, they don't need a divorce. They need to repent and start loving.
 
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SearchingStudent

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A few years back, I had biblical grounds to divorce. We CHOSE to work things out and stay together. I chose to forgive and he chose to change certain things.

So...it's a choice...to stay even when every fiber of your being says GO. To work on the marriage when you can barely tolerate the sight of your spouse. To work things out even when it seems that things will never work out.

HOWEVER...in the case of abuse, I do believe that separating is the BEST thing that can be done, and taking steps to protect one's self physically, emotionally and financially...what the couple chooses to do after that is their decision.
 
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JRSut1000

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Commitment means just that - to be committed. But it doesnt carry the same solemn meaning today that it seemed to 'back then'. In Bible times, commitment was part of covenant and those werent meant to be taken lightly! My husband and I just did a study tonight on Malachi 2 and I was pleasantly surprised that the Bible spoke of the wife as the man's companion, but he dealt 'treacherously' with the 'wife of his youth' and put her away. The LORD heard HER tears, not HIS sacrifices. Serious stuff to think about!

Now I'm not bashing men here by quoting Malachi, it takes 2 to make a committed marriage healthy and flourishing. But what I am saying is that if we're not treating our spouse with love that comes from commitment (and we married our spouse cuz we loved em right??), then we'd better be careful lest our prayers and spirituality fall on deaf ears with the Lord.
 
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Thing is Jr, He put her away and did not divorce her, or keep her. These men left the women in a legal loophole that afforded her and their children absolutely NO protection (legally or spiritually).

During the massive repentance that went on with the restoration of the Temple services, people had already been married and seeing that the Torah did not afford them to marry "strangers" and "idolaters", they put the women and the children away, wondering should they divorce them or not, and take new wives. This is what the Prophet was discussing with them. It was not a good situation at all.

This is the status of the Agunah. And it happens even today in pockets all around the world. Men who put away their wives for frivolous things, and these women have no legal reprocussions in the Beit Din. They have to plea with the judges and rabbis to punish the husband and have him either take her back or give her a bill of divorce. It is a very stressful and hard position to be placed in. Without a Get, she cannot go anywhere. Without her Ketubah, she can't remain married with her DH.
If the husband cannot be found (and trust me, oft times they can be found, even after years and years) the beit din has to rule that the husband is possibly dead, finally unchaining the poor woman.

Circumstances leading to a woman being declared an agunah are:

  • The disappearance of the husband without any witnesses declaring that he is dead;
  • The husband succumbing to a physical or mental disease that leaves him in a coma or insane and unable to actively grant a divorce;
  • The husband refusing to grant his wife a get when she is deemed entitled to one under Jewish law. A woman denied a get by her husband is technically called a mesorevet get, although the term agunah is more commonly used.
A woman who is denied a divorce from her husband is not considered an agunah until her husband refuses an order by a rabbinic court to give her a get.
What constitutes a legitimate request for a divorce is based on halakhic considerations and the particular case of the couple. See Mesorevet get below.
Agunah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
See also http://www.mucjs.org/MELILAH/2005/1.pdf
and Emotional Abuse and Your Faith: Agunah is to stay chained

If you go to news.google.com and type in "Agunah" or "Chained wife" you'll get results talking about this condition. It's not about a light divorce. Putting away is a legal middle ground to basically blackmail someone and leave them neither married, nor divorced - and subject to your whims, and in a complicated tax, religious and personal situation.

Here is but one example of what you will find: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/04/us/04divorce.html?_r=2&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha23

The status of the Agunah would be similar to the status any "Joe schmo" would have happen if their husband or wife just walking out and disappearing without a trace, or if they were MIA in the military. No ability to do anything until they are declared legally dead, or they are found.

If she remarries, her children are considered mamzer and unable to marry within the Jewish community. Her genetic line is cut off from her people. (not a good thing at all!) She is considered an adulterous woman. An honorable man of society would not simply 'put away' his wife, unless he was hard-hearted. A man that wasn't honorable enough to do so is at times threatened with excommunication. The husband profaned the Torah by abandoning his family, and then came to the temple to worship. However, given a get - she is free to remarry. Even Y'shua discussed this point in a passage everyone uses to prove it is forbidding divorce within Christianity. However, he was discussing a point about the status of the agunah and that of divorce within a rabbinic context, with other rabbis who were testing him.

If you recall, there was a time where Moses put away Tzipporah and their two sons. They stayed with his father in law until such time that his father in law brought them back to him, after the crossing of the sea of reeds.

Exodus 18
1 Moses’ father-in-law, Jethro, the priest of Midian, heard about everything God had done for Moses and his people, the Israelites. He heard especially about how the LORD had rescued them from Egypt.
2 Earlier, Moses had sent his wife, Zipporah, and his two sons back to Jethro, who had taken them in.
It certainly wasn't a high moment for Moses.

Then Miriam and Aaron get in on the blame game. (Numbers 12)


I can't speak to marriages outside of the religious paradigm, but I can say that I will not blame anyone who has a divorce. We are not in their marriage, we do not know what happened behind those closed doors, or even how those people are in their private lives. We can only make that call on our own marriages, in our own back yard, unless we are professionals helping that individual couple.
 
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Puptart

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There's a difference between "lack of commitment" and "recognizing you married the wrong person". I divorced my first husband not because I wasn't committed to the marriage, but because after a couple of years I realized he was not the right person. Should we have gotten married in the first place? Probably not... but that is not a reason for me to suck it up for the rest of my life and just treat it like a mistake I couldn't change. I could change it, I did change it, and I'm happily remarried to a great guy.

IMO people (especially Christians... not just that, but especially Christians who have never been divorced and insist on passing judgment and giving advice about divorce despite having absolutely NO first-hand experience on the subject whatsoever) are quick to decide that a divorce means there was a lack of commitment to "making it work," but the funny thing about life is that sometimes we just make outright mistakes that we need to correct. You don't need to wallow in your mistakes for life; you need to suck it up and admit you messed up and then fix it -- not necessarily by "fixing" the relationship, but by fixing your life which may entail removing things and people from your life that just don't work and replacing them with things and people that do.

Sometimes people ask me if I had it to do over again, would I have avoided my ex-husband like the plague, and I say no.. because I'm a better person for having gone through a divorce. I learned a lot about myself, about life, about people, society, religion, judgment, God, mistakes, forgiveness, evolution (not in the traditional physical-sciences sense, I use this word metaphorically here), friends, family, and probably a dozen other things I can't even think of off the top of my head.

I was never "not committed". I just messed up. I've fixed my mistakes.. end of story.
 
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