purpose driven baptists?

Goodbook · Jun 23, 2012

I have started attending a church that I suspect has bought into the purpose driven movement. Just a question is this happening to all churches or is it only baptists at the moment that are embracing this because I have been reading the baptist newspapers over the past few year and there always seems to be complaints over numbers, how they aren't growing etc.

This church says on it's values brochure most of the things that I've read about in the purpose driven book, that it must always be growing numerically etc I was hoping that I would see scripture on it's statments of belief but its all about how it has so many ministries, that young people are the most important, and other things.

There are things that I like about this church but then there are things that I really feel a check in my spirit when the pastor boasts about how this church is great, that it's growing, that they are relational, when we really shouldn't be boasting of anything but Jesus Christ...

They have been very welcoming to me, and explained about being a member, but I just get the feeling that If I do become a member I will be paying off their building debts as they are always talking about expanding and being bigger, and then complaining how people leave the area and go to other churches.

The 'home group' or bible study I went to was just a video shown about rick warren and his saddleback church daniel plan (which they are doing) and while that is all well and good to be healthy it just seems they are glorifying man even while saying the glory goes to God I am getting confused and just not sure if it's worth sticking with. The daniel plan quoted bits of the bible but I noticed they left out certain verses and had versions that said quite different things from my bible (unashamedly King James Version) especially concerning the teaching that God does things for our purposes when it says no such thing God does things for His pleasure (2 thessalonians 1:11)

their version was this

I constantly pray for you, that our God...by his power may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith.

KJV
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

This was so different that I wonder if I should say anything or if I should just not go to this church, I mentioned it to the ladies, saying hey this is not right..I didn't know we would be watching a video of this man I thought a bible study would be directed by the Holy spirit and we would be reading out bibles not follow the biggest church in america and try and copy that pastor and watch him make jokes about his weight.

MrJim · Jun 23, 2012

Goodbook said:
I have started attending a church that I suspect has bought into the purpose driven movement. Just a question is this happening to all churches or is it only baptists at the moment that are embracing this because I have been reading the baptist newspapers over the past few year and there always seems to be complaints over numbers, how they aren't growing etc.

This church says on it's values brochure most of the things that I've read about in the purpose driven book, that it must always be growing numerically etc I was hoping that I would see scripture on it's statments of belief but its all about how it has so many ministries, that young people are the most important, and other things.

There are things that I like about this church but then there are things that I really feel a check in my spirit when the pastor boasts about how this church is great, that it's growing, that they are relational, when we really shouldn't be boasting of anything but Jesus Christ...

They have been very welcoming to me, and explained about being a member, but I just get the feeling that If I do become a member I will be paying off their building debts as they are always talking about expanding and being bigger, and then complaining how people leave the area and go to other churches.

The 'home group' or bible study I went to was just a video shown about rick warren and his saddleback church daniel plan (which they are doing) and while that is all well and good to be healthy it just seems they are glorifying man even while saying the glory goes to God I am getting confused and just not sure if it's worth sticking with. The daniel plan quoted bits of the bible but I noticed they left out certain verses and had versions that said quite different things from my bible (unashamedly King James Version) especially concerning the teaching that God does things for our purposes when it says no such thing God does things for His pleasure (2 thessalonians 1:11)

their version was this

I constantly pray for you, that our God...by his power may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith.

KJV
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

This was so different that I wonder if I should say anything or if I should just not go to this church, I mentioned it to the ladies, saying hey this is not right..I didn't know we would be watching a video of this man I thought a bible study would be directed by the Holy spirit and we would be reading out bibles not follow the biggest church in america and try and copy that pastor and watch him make jokes about his weight.

I would suggest you skip this one and keep looking for a church home.

Osage Bluestem · Jun 23, 2012

In my view there is always something wrong when a church grows to big. They should plant another church instead of investing in making an amusement park out of their facility.

MrJim · Jun 23, 2012

Osage Bluestem said:
In my view there is always something wrong when a church grows to big. They should plant another church instead of investing in making an amusement park out of their facility.

How could we ever have a church building without a coffee shop? ^_^

desmalia · Jun 23, 2012

MrJim said:
I would suggest you skip this one and keep looking for a church home.

I'll second that.

You are quite right to be concerned about the Scripture twisting Warren does. He's famous for it. The seeker-sensitive movement is deadly in the church and it sounds like this one has been well saturated by it. Not that there isn't hope. The Lord will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and sometimes that means even churches that have gone astray for a time.

But if there is a Bible focused church you can join instead, I recommend that. Not all Baptist churches have gone seeker sensitive, though it can be hard sometimes to find one that hasn't.

His_disciple3 · Jun 23, 2012

one time a man was stranded on a deserted island, for a long time. Finally one day after spending years on this Island. A ship came by and spotted the man and rescued Him, as they were about to set sail for Home. the captain and the man was standing on the big ship looking over the Island. The captian spotted a huge building and ask the man what is that building right there, the man replied that this was His House, he said he had been there a while and needed a place to live so he built that building, well the captian noticed thewre was A smaller building built to the left of the House, and ask the Man well what is that building there to the left of your House, the man replied that this was his Church, stating the he was a God fearing man, and needed somewhere to woship God at, then the captian saw another building to the right of the House and said well what building is that to the right of your house, and the man replied oh that is the Church I used to go to!!

actionsub · Jun 23, 2012

Osage Bluestem said:
In my view there is always something wrong when a church grows to big. They should plant another church instead of investing in making an amusement park out of their facility.

This is fine, but the prevailing wisdom now is to start a "satellite campus" and beam in video of the pastor's sermons from the main church.

And to the OP, it's not just a Baptist thing. In the area where I live, I can point to a United Methodist church, a couple of Assembly of God churches, one Church of God, and a host of non-denominational churches.

Goodbook · Dec 30, 2016

I come back to this thread cos a friend of mine goes to this church and heard that the pastor was leaving, think there was a big drama and he got voted out or something.

I didn't go to this church but attended the other baptist for a while, but then I found years before I attended they also bought into rick warrens teachings, because one of the elders said everyone was forced to read 'the purpose driven life', and do studies on it, thats why so many copies were in the library.

I don't know what to think now so I kinda not want to go back to the baptist church :-(. I'm noticing things that aren't according to the spirit with the 'leaders' and I'm tired of fighting it.

I don't know if its a baptist thing or not, was rick warren originally baptist? What about Bill Hybels thats another name, they had lots of books by him 'How to be a contagious christian'. Does that mean all the baptist churches are infected???

Swan7 · Dec 30, 2016

All churches are "infected" because we live in a sinful world, so corruption is not new. We, as Christians, are in a constant battle between the flesh and the spirit.

Goodbook · Dec 30, 2016

But..aren't we to keep ourselves from being corrupted, why bring this corruption INTO the church?

Goodbook · Dec 30, 2016

I don't think the presy's have gone that far, so sometimes its refreshing to go there for a change.

They didn't have any of rick warrens books in their library.

Swan7 · Dec 31, 2016

Goodbook said:
But..aren't we to keep ourselves from being corrupted, why bring this corruption INTO the church?

Oh I highly agree with you. It's why I left the church I grew up in as a remnant alongside with my dad. We both saw, in different stages, something that wasn't salvageable within the church. My dad, being on the board, tried to fix the problem but nobody seemed to listen or care.

Goodbook · Dec 31, 2016

Swan7 said:
Oh I highly agree with you. It's why I left the church I grew up in as a remnant alongside with my dad. We both saw, in different stages, something that wasn't salvageable within the church. My dad, being on the board, tried to fix the problem but nobody seemed to listen or care.

Sorry to hear swan. Are you still part of the baptists?

They also changed their magazine, its totally different from what it used to be, people could write in and share scripture and views, but now its a glossy and nobody is allowed to write in only 'leaders'

Just heaps of subtle things happening that are not according to how God does things.

The baptist church i mentioned first, i didnt end up going because they had actually got a gambling outift donate money to build their complex (cant really call it a church) and had put its logo on the outside. They do charge people to have lunch there. Although they had three services in one day, the pastor would preach on someone elses book, not the bible. I remember one i went to he was going on about John Bevere.

I mean sure, hes supposedly a christian author but I dont want to go to church to hear a book review on something thats not the bible.

Swan7 · Dec 31, 2016

Goodbook said:
Sorry to hear swan. Are you still part of the baptists?

They also changed their magazine, its totally different from what it used to be, people could write in and share scripture and views, but now its a glossy and nobody is allowed to write in only 'leaders'

Just heaps of subtle things happening that are not according to how God does things.

The baptist church i mentioned first, i didnt end up going because they had actually got a gambling outift donate money to build their complex (cant really call it a church) and had put its logo on the outside. They do charge people to have lunch there. Although they had three services in one day, the pastor would preach on someone elses book, not the bible. I remember one i went to he was going on about John Bevere.

I mean sure, hes supposedly a christian author but I dont want to go to church to hear a book review on something thats not the bible.

I still consider myself a Baptist, yes, as that is the denomination I identify with it being the closest to the Bible.

Ahh, I see they are conforming to the way of the world instead of what God intended. God wants us to share our testimonies because it glorifies Him, and Him being Holy, He wants us to be Holy as well.

Yep, subtle details are certainly things I notice first as well. Once the flags start showing their colours, I take those concerns to God for guidance and I let Him either take me out of it or do something.

Oh wow! That would highly concern me as well! Church is supposed to be about God and learning about Him, helping us remember what we might forget in this fast paced world... not preaching about another human being whom God created... That sounds like a book club to me than a church.

Goodbook · Jan 5, 2017

It was only one sermon that he did that but he repeated it often enough to make me think oh I should be reading this guy instead of the bible.

Anyway after 14 years it seems what happened was this pastor got voted out...because numbers were declining? Or something. I dont know the full story. He is moving on to another church.

Just because people arent going to a certain church doesnt necssarily mean the church isnt growing. People have a lot more mobility these days and with new churches popping up many people would rather join and fellowship somewhere new and fresh than a church thats full of oldies i would think. I dont know that numbers are much of an indication of anything.... usually if a church grows too big..it will split off into smaller more manageable groups.

Dave-W · Jan 6, 2017

actionsub said:
This is fine, but the prevailing wisdom now is to start a "satellite campus" and beam in video of the pastor's sermons from the main church.

I would take that as a serious misunderstanding of the pastoral role. A pastor is supposed to know each member personally and be commited to their care and well-being. He cannot do that with a congregation that numbers in the thousands; and he certainly cannot do that via a telecom link.

This contemporary "prevailing wisdom" is certainly not from God.

Dave-W · Jan 6, 2017

Goodbook said:
I dont want to go to church to hear a book review on something thats not the bible.

Good for you GoodBook.

An occasional mention or quote from a book is fine as part of a broader biblical commentary; but not when the book itself is the main subject.

Goodbook · Mar 28, 2017

Friend invited me to this church and seems like God is really shaking it up as they looking for a new pastor and she told me there were some on the staff that were blaspheming God and even saying they were catholic. (Catholics seem to believe being catholic means they are entitled or something) I was shocked because i hadnt heard of unbelievers being on the staff in a baptist church. Seems like a lot of people are moving away. Shes considering it too.

The friend has stepped down from sunday school and could never actually hear the sermon cos it was going on at the same time. So she missed a lot of whatever the previous pastor was preaching about. If she had attended i think maybe she wouldnt have stayed.

actionsub · Mar 28, 2017

DaveW-Ohev said:
I would take that as a serious misunderstanding of the pastoral role. A pastor is supposed to know each member personally and be commited to their care and well-being. He cannot do that with a congregation that numbers in the thousands; and he certainly cannot do that via a telecom link.

This contemporary "prevailing wisdom" is certainly not from God.

Generally in such multisite churches, the satellite location will have what is called a "campus pastor" who handles the pastoral care and well-being of the congregants there, leaving the "lead pastor" free to write sermons and be the public "face" of the church.

Goodbook · Mar 29, 2017

actionsub said:
Generally in such multisite churches, the satellite location will have what is called a "campus pastor" who handles the pastoral care and well-being of the congregants there, leaving the "lead pastor" free to write sermons and be the public "face" of the church.

Hmm most baptist churches operate locally in my area at least they dont open other branches. They are autonomous, but all belong to the baptist family. Its more the apostolic or pentecostal type churches that do the multisite thing.

I dont know if its a good or bad thing..but with the multisite churches it just reminds me of mcdonald franchises where everything is the same, theres no real individuality or unique local expression to them.

purpose driven baptists?

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