Your opinion on drinking

WinBySurrender · Jun 23, 2012

faithabides said:
Just something to think about....why would Jesus transform water into a huge amount of alcoholic wine, which undoubtebly would have brought about wrecked homes, ruined lives, and endless misery.

"Undoutedly??" That's a pretty huge and invalid leap to a conclusion, given the entire village would have been at the wedding and three jars of wine wouldn't last more than a few hours.

faithabides said:
Why would he have provided a drink that could have caused drunkeness to some of the people at the wedding feast??? I don't see how social drinking can be legitimately supported by the Bible. Every drink that is available today, even beer, falls into the category of unmixed or strong drink.

Again, Jesus drank real, alcoholic wine. That seems to me to be a legitimate support. Also, wine was said, in the Old Testament, to have been "mixed." Any idea why? It was combined 2-1 wine to alcohol to kill the germs found to this day in most Mideastern wells. The bugs in water over there will kill you. The alcohol killed the bugs.

faithabides said:
Drinking socially is a wordly activity and in light of the fact that believers are neither to be conformed to the world (Romans 12:2) nor love the world (1 John 2:15) our choice should be clear. We are to SEPARATE from the world (II Corninthians 6:17) and be a LIGHT to the world (Eph.5:8 and Phil. 2:15). How does social drinking glorify God??

Now those last are good points. I was a heavy drinker in the military, self-medicating PTSD. When I finally admitted I had PTSD and got treatment and quite drinking. I didn't drink for another 20 years until one day, at a nice restaurant, I ordered steak and did so for my date, too. She asked if she could have a small glass of merlot, and when it arrived, she remarked how good it tasted. She offered me the glass, and I agreed, it was good.

Since then, I've realized I can enjoy an occasional wine or a couple beers and have no problem. By my own definition professionally, therefore, I was a problem drinker long ago, not an alcoholic. There is nothing deliberately not glorifying to God in my having a drink. There is nothing biblically to say I cannot enjoy an occasional alcoholic beverage, and excuse me, but your statements that it is "worldly" do not really apply.

Many things the world does, we also do. Shall we give up the Internet? It certainly wasn't developed by Christians, was it? Shall we give up cars? Henry Ford was an agnostic. Telephones? Computers? Doctors? Oh, there's a good one. Such extreme thinking as we are venturing into over wine and beer is the same thinking that leads some Christians to forego proper health care on the grounds God will heal them. Yes, He will. Sometimes, most time, He uses your doctor to do so.

No offense, but the arguments are fallacious.

wholigan11 · Jun 23, 2012

Christians shouldn't drink. I don't drink myself. It does a lot of harm to the body. It kills brain cells and it impairs you. Who wants to do something that they'll end up regretting later?

WinBySurrender · Jun 23, 2012

wholigan11 said:
Christians shouldn't drink. I don't drink myself. It does a lot of harm to the body. It kills brain cells and it impairs you. Who wants to do something that they'll end up regretting later?

Tell me where the Bible says "don't drink"? Sorry, but as I've said a couple times already, Jesus drank. The commands concerning alcohol are not to abuse it, not to forego it completely.

As I said, I'm an addictions counselor. Brain cells survive moderation just fine. It is heavy drinking that results in brain cells being killed off. Also, wine and other drinks with a relatively low alcohol content have been shown to be "heart healthy" in that they break down cholesterol and help digest the fatty foods that result in plaque building up in arteries.

Paul endorses wine for Timothy's stomach problems. Clearly the first century world knew of what we've now rediscovered about its digestive properties. Railing against alcohol when the Savior drank it in moderation is silly. Railing against its excessive use is biblical.

faithabides · Jun 23, 2012

wholigan11 said:
Christians shouldn't drink. I don't drink myself. It does a lot of harm to the body. It kills brain cells and it impairs you. Who wants to do something that they'll end up regretting later?

Thank you for your response. It's nice to know that other Christians out there think it's best to stay away from alcohol altogether. I've seen it cause more harm than good in my life and I would think that our Creator would rather us stay away from it than partake of it.

Hammster · Jun 23, 2012

faithabides said:
Thank you for your response. It's nice to know that other Christians out there think it's best to stay away from alcohol altogether. I've seen it cause more harm than good in my life and I would think that our Creator would rather us stay away from it than partake of it.

I've seen the same thing about food and sex.

WinBySurrender · Jun 23, 2012

Hammster said:
I've seen the same thing about good and sex.

Yep. So what else are we supposed to give up? Computers? Cars? Money? Those can wreck people's lives just as easily.

faithabides · Jun 23, 2012

I am beginning to feel like some are making jokes about my belief that it is wrong for Christians to drink alcohol. That is fine though. I just don't understand how someone could think that Jesus would turn water into an alcoholic wine - wouldn't that be contradicting a multitude of Scriptures?? Many use John 2:3-10 as a reason that it's ok to drink. Verse 10 says that the men of the wedding had already "well drunk". That tells me that they had already drunk a lot of wine up to that point. When the wine ran out, Jesus was asked by his mother to provide more wine. Jesus commands them to fill 6 water pots to the brim. They had already "well drunk" up to this point. Jesus had to make a decision, either contribute to the drunkeness that would surely follow with that much wine, or just say no. After all, the Bible does say that no drunkard shall inherit the Kingdom of God. that would be a contradiction in why Jesus came to earth in the first place, to save all mankind. Read Habakkuk 2:15a. Jesus creating and serving alcoholic wine clearly goes against this scripture. Any logical person who has been to a wedding in which the wine has flowed freely would have to admit that there are some there that will leave drunk. I can't imagine Jesus agreeing to create more wine under the supposed condition of the recipients. With that much alcohol somebody's going to be drunk making Jesus a conspirator in this violation of scripture. Jesus could not have drunk alcoholic wine at the wedding feast, or He would have been disobeying the Bible's commands concerning kings and princes. (Prov.31:4-7) The ulitimate King is Jesus. By Him drinking alcoholic wine, He would have been violating scripture. Proverbs 23:30-31 - This passage says don't even look at wine once it has turned to strong drink. This is God's message to believers even before they attempt to take a drink. Imagine if you were at a work function with a few co-workers and a waitress approached with a tray of wine beverages. You know that this is alcoholic wine. Based on Proverbs 23, and living in obedience to God, do you accept the wine or refuse it?? According to Scripture, you're not even suppose to look at it, let alone drink it. I know there will be many to argue these points, and that's fine. This is just what I believe and how I interpret the Scriptures.

Hammster · Jun 23, 2012

"Woe to you who make your neighbors drink,
Who mix in your venom even to make them drunk
So as to look on their nakedness! (Habakkuk 2:15 NASB)

A little different meaning when taken into context, especially assuming Jesus didn't want to look on their nakedness.

WinBySurrender · Jun 23, 2012

faithabides said:
I am beginning to feel like some are making jokes about my belief that it is wrong for Christians to drink alcohol. That is fine though. I just don't understand how someone could think that Jesus would turn water into an alcoholic wine - wouldn't that be contradicting a multitude of Scriptures?? Many use John 2:3-10 as a reason that it's ok to drink. Verse 10 says that the men of the wedding had already "well drunk".That tells me that they had already drunk a lot of wine up to that point. When the wine ran out, Jesus was asked by his mother to provide more wine. Jesus commands them to fill 6 water pots to the brim. They had already "well drunk" up to this point. Jesus had to make a decision, either contribute to the drunkeness that would surely follow with that much wine, or just say no. After all, the Bible does say that no drunkard shall inherit the Kingdom of God. that would be a contradiction in why Jesus came to earth in the first place, to save all mankind. Read Habakkuk 2:15a. Jesus creating and serving alcoholic wine clearly goes against this scripture. Any logical person who has been to a wedding in which the wine has flowed freely would have to admit that there are some there that will leave drunk. I can't imagine Jesus agreeing to create more wine under the supposed condition of the recipients. With that much alcohol somebody's going to be drunk making Jesus a conspirator in this violation of scripture. Jesus could not have drunk alcoholic wine at the wedding feast, or He would have been disobeying the Bible's commands concerning kings and princes. (Prov.31:4-7) The ulitimate King is Jesus. By Him drinking alcoholic wine, He would have been violating scripture. Proverbs 23:30-31 - This passage says don't even look at wine once it has turned to strong drink. This is God's message to believers even before they attempt to take a drink. Imagine if you were at a work function with a few co-workers and a waitress approached with a tray of wine beverages. You know that this is alcoholic wine. Based on Proverbs 23, and living in obedience to God, do you accept the wine or refuse it?? According to Scripture, you're not even suppose to look at it, let alone drink it. I know there will be many to argue these points, and that's fine. This is just what I believe and how I interpret the Scriptures.

You rant and rant and rant without stopping to look at what the verses you cite actually say. None of these forbid drinking, but all of them do forbid drinking to excess.

You rant and rant and rant that Jesus wouldn't create alcoholic wine, but you have yet to deal with what was pointed out to you, that the word oinos in Greek is fermented wine, and if you doubt that, it has also been pointed out to you that the word oinosflugia is translated "too much wine." So your arguments, while heartfelt I'm sure, are baseless.

His_disciple3 · Jun 23, 2012

well the Bible says if you go back under the law you, fall from grace, it also says that if keep one part of the law you are indebted to keep the whole law, or if we break one commandment we break them all. So America, if we are to preach against drinking then we must preach against eating, or should I say if we are going to preach against over drinking ( which is the Law ) than we have to preach against over eating ( which was the Law also)

Deuteronomy 21:19-21
19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
KJV
Proverbs 23:20-21
20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
KJV

webster 1828
GLUT''TON, n. glut''n. [Low L. gluto.] One who indulges to excess in eating.

that might put a stop to "ALL" who want to point a finger at the winedrinkers, over eating is just as bad as over drinking so if you want others to be sin free than you must also be sinfree, ye who is without sin cast the first stone, if your sin is neither over eating or over drinking, Examine your own heart and see what sin doth so easily besets you before you cast the stone at any.

faithabides · Jun 23, 2012

WinBySurrender said:
You rant and rant and rant without stopping to look at what the verses you cite actually say. None of these forbid drinking, but all of them do forbid drinking to excess.

You rant and rant and rant that Jesus wouldn't create alcoholic wine, but you have yet to deal with what was pointed out to you, that the word oinos in Greek is fermented wine, and if you doubt that, it has also been pointed out to you that the word oinosflugia is translated "too much wine." So your arguments, while heartfelt I'm sure, are baseless.

Wow, it's a nice feeling to have a fellow Christian describe my beliefs about drinking alcohol as baseless and that all I do is rant and rant. Out of about 100 comments regarding my original post, I have only posted 5 or so times regarding this, so I don't think I have been ranting. In fact, I have been reading everyone else's thoughts and not posting back rude comments. I could say that all you do is rant and rant about how Christ says it's ok to drink just as long as you don't get drunk, but I won't. You tell me I don't look at what the verses actually mean that I cite, umm, yes I do. Tell me what YOU think about Jesus turning water into alcoholic wine and providing it to people that had already drunk plenty of it. Would he have wanted to contribute to people getting drunk?? Tell me your thoughts on that. If you think Jesus drank alcoholic wine, tell me your thoughts on what Proverbs 31:4-7 mean. Jesus is the ultimate King. How could he have drank alcoholic wine without violating this scripture?? This is just what I believe. If you believe differently, that is fine. I only wanted people to express their feelings on this subject, and to tell why it is that they feel this way (such as using scripture to back up their beliefs.) I could never tell someone that what they interpret certain verses to mean as baseless. Even if I disagree with it, I wouldn't be that rude.

01tj · Jun 23, 2012

Again IMO it's not always a sin to drink alcohol. In some cultures it is necessary because it kills contaminants in water. Then again alcohol is a diuretic which means it dehydrates you so drinking alcohol so that you can drink water may be counter productive.

Again though my question is whats the point. If you are not drinking to get drunk why drink at all when there are other alternatives and I think we can all agree that being drunk is a sin.

Remember back in biblical days they couldn't stop at the local gas station and pick up a green tea or a bottle of disani. They couldn't go to the kitchen and pour a glass of cool water out of the tap. They couldn't brew a cup of coffee in the comfort of their kitchen.

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Your opinion on drinking

WinBySurrender

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wholigan11

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faithabides

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Hammster

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WinBySurrender

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WinBySurrender

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