KJV-Onlyism. Why should I believe it?

Hentenza

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you meeting Lucifer one time is probably the one thing you have said that I can believe . just joking but still praying :pray:

Do you deny the fact that Lucifer is not an English translation of the Hebrew בֶּן־שָׁ֑חַר but an oversight while translating from the Latin Vulgate? Here is the verse in Latin from the Vulgate to refresh your memory.

quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
 
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His_disciple3

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You keep blaming just the printing press but that is not so. While there were printing errors the new editions also changed wording not associated with the printing errors.



My mistake. The correct book is 2 Samuel.

I have given you the benefit of the doubt and compared 2 sam 12: 20-31 with the revised KJB of today and the 1611 edition and i didn't find one word changed much as the 41 that you claimed are there, so if bearing false witness against one another is wrong i would say also bearing false witness against the Word of God would be even more wrong. now have you missed quoted the scripture again, that you wanted me to compare or have you just taken someone elses word that all these 41 word changes were there. when in truth there is no change?

this is 2 sam 12:20-31 in the 1611 KJB edition, here is the link 2 SAMUEL CHAPTER 12  (1611 KING JAMES BIBLE)
20 Then Dauid arose from the earth and washed, and anointed himselfe, and changed his apparell, and came into the house of the Lord, and worshipped: then hee came to his owne house, and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eate.
21 Then said his seruants vnto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weepe for the childe, while it was aliue, but when the childe was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.
22 And he said, While the child was yet aliue, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell, whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may liue?
23 But now hee is dead, Wherefore should I fast? Can I bring him backe againe? I shall goe to him, but he shall not returne to me.
24 ¶ And Dauid comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in vnto her, and lay with her: and she bare a sonne, and he called his name Solomon, and the Lord loued him.
25 And hee sent by the hand of Nathan the Prophet, and hee called his name Iedidiah, because of the Lord.
26 ¶ And Ioab fought against Rabbah of the children of Ammon, and tooke the royall citie.
27 And Ioab sent messengers to Dauid, and said, I haue fought against Rabbah, and haue taken the citie of waters.
28 Now therefore, gather the rest of the people together, and encampe against the citie, and take it: lest I take the citie, and it be called after my name.
29 And Dauid gathered all the people together, and went to Rabbah, and fought against it, and tooke it.
30 And he tooke their kings crowne from off his head (the weight whereof was a talent of gold, with the precious stones) and it was set on Dauids head, and he brought forth the spoile of the citie in great abundance.
31And he brought foorth the people that were therein, and put them vnder sawes, and vnder harrowes of yron, and vnder axes of yron, and made them passe through the bricke-kilne: And thus did he vnto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So Dauid and all the people returned vnto Ierusalem.

and here is the revised today's edition of the KJB

2 Samuel 12:20-31
20 Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the Lord, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.
21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.
22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
24 And David comforted Bath-sheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.
25 And he sent by the hand of Nathan the prophet; and he called his name Jedidiah, because of the Lord.
26 And Joab fought against Rabbah of the children of Ammon, and took the royal city.
27 And Joab sent messengers to David, and said, I have fought against Rabbah, and have taken the city of waters.
28 Now therefore gather the rest of the people together, and encamp against the city, and take it: lest I take the city, and it be called after my name.
29 And David gathered all the people together, and went to Rabbah, and fought against it, and took it.
30 And he took their king's crown from off his head, the weight whereof was a talent of gold with the precious stones: and it was set on David's head. And he brought forth the spoil of the city in great abundance.
31 And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brickkiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem.
KJV
 
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Hentenza

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I have given you the benefit of the doubt and compared 2 sam 12: 20-31 with the revised KJB of today and the 1611 edition and i didn't find one word changed much as the 41 that you claimed are there, so if bearing false witness against one another is wrong i would say also bearing false witness against the Word of God would be even more wrong. now have you missed quoted the scripture again, that you wanted me to compare or have you just taken someone elses word that all these 41 word changes were there. when in truth there is no change?

this is 2 sam 12:20-31 in the 1611 KJB edition, here is the link 2 SAMUEL CHAPTER 12 [bless and do not curse](1611 KING JAMES BIBLE)
20 Then Dauid arose from the earth and washed, and anointed himselfe, and changed his apparell, and came into the house of the Lord, and worshipped: then hee came to his owne house, and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eate.
21 Then said his seruants vnto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weepe for the childe, while it was aliue, but when the childe was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.
22 And he said, While the child was yet aliue, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell, whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may liue?
23 But now hee is dead, Wherefore should I fast? Can I bring him backe againe? I shall goe to him, but he shall not returne to me.
24 ¶ And Dauid comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in vnto her, and lay with her: and she bare a sonne, and he called his name Solomon, and the Lord loued him.
25 And hee sent by the hand of Nathan the Prophet, and hee called his name Iedidiah, because of the Lord.
26 ¶ And Ioab fought against Rabbah of the children of Ammon, and tooke the royall citie.
27 And Ioab sent messengers to Dauid, and said, I haue fought against Rabbah, and haue taken the citie of waters.
28 Now therefore, gather the rest of the people together, and encampe against the citie, and take it: lest I take the citie, and it be called after my name.
29 And Dauid gathered all the people together, and went to Rabbah, and fought against it, and tooke it.
30 And he tooke their kings crowne from off his head (the weight whereof was a talent of gold, with the precious stones) and it was set on Dauids head, and he brought forth the spoile of the citie in great abundance.
31And he brought foorth the people that were therein, and put them vnder sawes, and vnder harrowes of yron, and vnder axes of yron, and made them passe through the bricke-kilne: And thus did he vnto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So Dauid and all the people returned vnto Ierusalem.

and here is the revised today's edition of the KJB

2 Samuel 12:20-31
20 Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the Lord, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.
21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.
22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
24 And David comforted Bath-sheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.
25 And he sent by the hand of Nathan the prophet; and he called his name Jedidiah, because of the Lord.
26 And Joab fought against Rabbah of the children of Ammon, and took the royal city.
27 And Joab sent messengers to David, and said, I have fought against Rabbah, and have taken the city of waters.
28 Now therefore gather the rest of the people together, and encamp against the city, and take it: lest I take the city, and it be called after my name.
29 And David gathered all the people together, and went to Rabbah, and fought against it, and took it.
30 And he took their king's crown from off his head, the weight whereof was a talent of gold with the precious stones: and it was set on David's head. And he brought forth the spoil of the city in great abundance.
31 And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brickkiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem.
KJV

I highlighted them for you (bold) in the KJV 1611 text. Printer mistakes are random not consistent.

And lets not forget the wicked KJV of 1631 and murderers KJV of 1801.:doh:
 
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His_disciple3

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Do you deny the fact that Lucifer is not an English translation of the Hebrew בֶּן־שָׁ֑חַר but an oversight while translating from the Latin Vulgate? Here is the verse in Latin from the Vulgate to refresh your memory.

quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
you know I haven't deny anything or accepted anything concerning this lucifer thing you are talking about, but I would ask if you can give a scriptural reference book chapter and verse so I can look in to it.
 
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His_disciple3

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I highlighted them for you (bold) in the KJV 1611 text. Printer mistakes are random not consistent.

And lets not forget the wicked KJV of 1631 and murderers KJV of 1801.:doh:
dude THis is pitiful, I said there was typos, many of these words have not changed just the way the words are spelled ,I also said the printing presses were not the best to work with, the i and j were mixed up as well as the u and the v, you said 41 words were changed Mee changed to me is not changing the word it is the same word, Good night I am really still praying for you and your attacks against the 400 year old ENGLISH Word of God
 
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Hentenza

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Do you deny the fact that Lucifer is not an English translation of the Hebrew בֶּן־שָׁ֑חַר but an oversight while translating from the Latin Vulgate? Here is the verse in Latin from the Vulgate to refresh your memory.

quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes

you know I haven't deny anything or accepted anything concerning this lucifer thing you are talking about, but I would ask if you can give a scriptural reference book chapter and verse so I can look in to it.

I did. The above quote is from Isaiah 14:12.

Here is the Hebrew:

אֵ֛יךְ נָפַ֥לְתָּ מִשָּׁמַ֖יִם הֵילֵ֣ל בֶּן־שָׁ֑חַר נִגְדַּ֣עְתָּ לָאָ֔רֶץ חֹולֵ֖שׁ עַל־גֹּויִֽם׃

Here is the Vulgate:

quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes

Her is the KJV:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

The Hebrew is divided into two words:

בֶּן־ means son

שָׁ֑חַר means "of the dawn"

The word lucifer used in the KJV is Jerome's Vulgate LATIN translation of the Hebrew not the English translation. The KJV writers failed to translate it to English and, consequently, invented a new "English" word. No one had met "lucifer" until the 17th century.
 
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Hentenza

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dude THis is pitiful, I said there was typos, many of these words have not changed just the way the words are spelled ,I also said the printing presses were not the best to work with, the i and j were mixed up as well as the u and the v, you said 41 words were changed Mee changed to me is not changing the word it is the same word, Good night I am really still praying for you and your attacks against the 400 year old ENGLISH Word of God

You keep blaming the printing press.:doh:

Ok, did the printing press messed up Ruth 3:15?

KJV 1611
15 Also he said, Bring the vaile that thou hast vpon thee, and holde it. And when she helde it, he measured sixe measures of barley, and laide it on her: and he went into the citie.


Revised KJV
15 Also he said, Bring the vail that thou hast upon thee, and hold it. And when she held it, he measured six measures of barley, and laid it on her: and she went into the city.


SHE went into the city not HE. Is that a printer's error also?


There has been changes made in the KJV in the following years: 1613, 1616, 1617, 1618, 1629, 1630, 1633, 1634, 1637, 1638, 1640, 1642, 1653, 1659, 1675, 1679, 1833, 1896, 1904. God gets things right the first time. No revisions or changes needed.
 
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His_disciple3

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I did. The above quote is from Isaiah 14:12.

Here is the Hebrew:

אֵ֛יךְ נָפַ֥לְתָּ מִשָּׁמַ֖יִם הֵילֵ֣ל בֶּן־שָׁ֑חַר נִגְדַּ֣עְתָּ לָאָ֔רֶץ חֹולֵ֖שׁ עַל־גֹּויִֽם׃

Here is the Vulgate:

quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes

Her is the KJV:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

The Hebrew is divided into two words:

בֶּן־ means son

שָׁ֑חַר means "of the dawn"

The word lucifer used in the KJV is Jerome's Vulgate LATIN translation of the Hebrew not the English translation. The KJV writers failed to translate it to English and, consequently, invented a new "English" word. No one had met "lucifer" until the 17th century.


I not going to cover something that has already within this thread, keep looking back you will find it, I will say this though you can't campare the KJB with just any manuscripts, you have to compare it with the manuscripts used by the KJB translators, before you can say there is an error made by the translators. I will also say this you say no one met lucifer until the 17 century goes against all other that fight against the KJB, "ALL" others I have heard on the subject, says that Lucifer was some king way back in the old testament days, how old would have that made him before you met him in the 17 century?
 
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His_disciple3

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You keep blaming the printing press.:doh:

Ok, did the printing press messed up Ruth 3:15?

KJV 1611
15 Also he said, Bring the vaile that thou hast vpon thee, and holde it. And when she helde it, he measured sixe measures of barley, and laide it on her: and he went into the citie.


Revised KJV
15 Also he said, Bring the vail that thou hast upon thee, and hold it. And when she held it, he measured six measures of barley, and laid it on her: and she went into the city.


SHE went into the city not HE. Is that a printer's error also?


There has been changes made in the KJV in the following years: 1613, 1616, 1617, 1618, 1629, 1630, 1633, 1634, 1637, 1638, 1640, 1642, 1653, 1659, 1675, 1679, 1833, 1896, 1904. God gets things right the first time. No revisions or changes needed.

why would a missing s in ruth not be a printers error? yes God can make pure silver but man has to melt it down 7 times, and it is still not 100% pure. again I say this is pitiful, all these changes you are pointing out, does nothing to change the Bibical doctrines or the Gospel
 
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His_disciple3

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Her is the KJV:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

.

hello, Hentenza ye who are without sin, the one that has been casting stones at people in 1600's for their printing errors, ye must be without sin for "ALL" the stones ye are casting, but look at your post in quotes " HER IS THE KJV, I will remind you Him who is without error cast the first stone, you even have spell checlk available, and you cast stones "ALL" the way back to the 1600"s :priest:
 
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Hentenza

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I not going to cover something that has already within this thread, keep looking back you will find it, I will say this though you can't campare the KJB with just any manuscripts, you have to compare it with the manuscripts used by the KJB translators, before you can say there is an error made by the translators. I will also say this you say no one met lucifer until the 17 century goes against all other that fight against the KJB, "ALL" others I have heard on the subject, says that Lucifer was some king way back in the old testament days, how old would have that made him before you met him in the 17 century?

Brother, now you are rejecting objective proof to attempt to salvage your mistaken belief. NONE of the extant mss contain the word lucifer. None. The word is a Latin word NOT a Hebrew word. ALL extant mss of Isaiah 14:12 are in Hebrew. NONE are in Latin. This is a CLEAR error by the KJV writers which also reveals their extensive use of the Latin Vulgate as a foundation for their translation.

Furthermore, the Latin Vulgate has translation errors that the KJV writers perpetuated. For example, in Genesis 1 the original language Hebrew word
רָקִ֫יעַ is translated as firmament. This word has NEVER meant something solid and it means an expanse or extended surface. The error was first made by the LXX writers by translating the Hebrew word as the Greek στερέωμα, Jerome then translated it into Latin as "firmamentum", and then the KJV writers translated it from the Latin Vulgate into the English "firmament". The expanse is not and has never been solid as in a solid dome as many mistakenly believed early on because of this error.
 
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Hentenza

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hello, Hentenza ye who are without sin, the one that has been casting stones at people in 1600's for their printing errors, ye must be without sin for "ALL" the stones ye are casting, but look at your post in quotes " HER IS THE KJV, I will remind you Him who is without error cast the first stone, you even have spell checlk available, and you cast stones "ALL" the way back to the 1600"s :priest:

God is without error.
 
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Brother, now you are rejecting objective proof to attempt to salvage your mistaken belief. NONE of the extant mss contain the word lucifer. None. The word is a Latin word NOT a Hebrew word. ALL extant mss of Isaiah 14:12 are in Hebrew. NONE are in Latin. This is a CLEAR error by the KJV writers which also reveals their extensive use of the Latin Vulgate as a foundation for their translation.

Furthermore, the Latin Vulgate has translation errors that the KJV writers perpetuated. For example, in Genesis 1 the original language Hebrew word
רָקִ֫יעַ is translated as firmament. This word has NEVER meant something solid and it means an expanse or extended surface. The error was first made by the LXX writers by translating the Hebrew word as the Greek στερέωμα, Jerome then translated it into Latin as "firmamentum", and then the KJV writers translated it from the Latin Vulgate into the English "firmament". The expanse is not and has never been solid as in a solid dome as many mistakenly believed early on because of this error.

I ain't rejecting nothing, Isaiah 14:12 has already been covered, look back and learn. "ALL" others scholars says that Lucifer was a king in the old testament time when Isaiah was wrote, you say he didn't appear 1700, so you are right and everyone else is wrong, is that what you have been waiting for me to say well quess what, I say you are wrong.

based on your logic here with the lucifer thing, then we wouldn't have a english bible ever, for ENGLISH is made up of alot other languages including latin, so your so called proof don't prove nothing, just another cheap shot at the 400 YEAR OLD ENGLISH AUTHORIZED KING JAMES BIBLE. again ye cast stones at other people's typos and you make them too, and now you cast stones at people who uses words orginated in other languages and you speak a language that is made up of alot of different languages yourself, here is another thing you say that the King James Bible was broke for the language was out dated, and it needed to be fixed with words that people now adays know. and you crucify the KJB translators for putting a modern word( for their times) Lucifer in their translation, :pray: still praying
 
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Hentenza

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I ain't rejecting nothing, Isaiah 14:12 has already been covered, look back and learn. "ALL" others scholars says that Lucifer was a king in the old testament time when Isaiah was wrote, you say he didn't appear 1700, so you are right and everyone else is wrong, is that what you have been waiting for me to say well quess what, I say you are wrong.

I say that you are covering for the redifinitions typical of the KJVO movement cultish practices. Again, NONE of the extant mss contain the Latin word lucifer. None. Nada. Nil. ALL extant mss of Isaiah 14:12 are in Hebrew. None are in Latin. The word lucifer IS a Latin word and it was not an English word until Erasmus forgot to translate it.



based on your logic here with the lucifer thing, then we wouldn't have a english bible ever, for ENGLISH is made up of alot other languages including latin, so your so called proof don't prove nothing, <snip the emotive fallacy>

The facts speak for themselves.
 
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His_disciple3

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I say that you are covering for the redifinitions typical of the KJVO movement cultish practices. Again, NONE of the extant mss contain the Latin word lucifer. None. Nada. Nil. ALL extant mss of Isaiah 14:12 are in Hebrew. None are in Latin. The word lucifer IS a Latin word and it was not an English word until Erasmus forgot to translate it.





The facts speak for themselves.

here is another thing you say that the King James Bible was broke for the language was out dated, and it needed to be fixed with words that people now adays know. and you crucify the KJB translators for putting a modern word( for their times) Lucifer in their translation


yeah the facts speak for themselves you are a hypocritical person, you justify one translation and crucify another for the same thing!
 
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Hentenza

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yeah the facts speak for themselves you are a hypocritical person, you justify one translation and crucify another for the same thing!

Step two of the defense of the KJVO cultish belief, ad hominen attacks. Do you not realize that one looses all credibility by insulting the opponent? This is the typical argument fallacy designed to shift ones inability to defend their premise by drawing attention away from themselves and unto the opponent's character. Pitiful.

I justify the originals as being the inspired word of God. I do not justify, nor is there any evidence to justify, a translation separated by over 1500 years from the originals as being the "English" inerrant word of God. Paul tells us that ALL scripture is profitable not just the KJV.

here is another thing you say that the King James Bible was broke for the language was out dated, and it needed to be fixed with words that people now adays know. and you crucify the KJB translators for putting a modern word( for their times) Lucifer in their translation

The Latin word Lucifer is not a modern word but one used by Jerome while translating the Vulgate during the 4th century, almost 1200 years prior to the KJV.
 
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