Drinking Alcohol

In my opinion, it's fine to drink, but not to get to the point where you lose control. 'Feeling an effect' is a bit hard to define, but certainly if you get to the stage of doing or saying anything which you wouldn't do or say when sober, then you have gone to far.

For myself, I like a glass of wine, I can take two, but I don't go on to the third because I know that it will make my head swim. But everyone's limit is different

The Biblical definition of drunkenness is getting absolutely plastered, taking off all your clothing, running through the streets breaking merchants' goods, shouting obscenities, before collapsing out in a field somewhere and having an orgy with your fellow Pagan worshippers of Bacchus, the god of wine. Sound like something you'd be interested in? No? Then I think drinking is a fairly safe activity for you.

Leonfrost said:

The Biblical definition of drunkenness is getting absolutely plastered, taking off all your clothing, running through the streets breaking merchants' goods, shouting obscenities, before collapsing out in a field somewhere and having an orgy with your fellow Pagan worshippers of Bacchus, the god of wine. Sound like something you'd be interested in? No? Then I think drinking is a fairly safe activity for you.

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Sort of like the weekend of an average college student.

I agree, there is a difference between drinking for occasion, getting tipsy and getting wasted. Alcohol consumption has positive psychological, and even physical effects. Wine has flavinoids, which are powerful antioxidants. Beer has natural microorganisms that can aid digestion. Even super strong drink has some moderately positive effects.

Solomon said to "give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts." Temporary, moderate consumption of alcohol can have psychologically rehabilitative affects. Ever see two people who hate each other have a few beers, then all of a sudden they are singing and hugging each other? It creates a positively euphoric effect in some people.

But, it can make some parts of the brain vulnerable to psychological or spiritual attack. Some people get mean, violent, deceitful, lusty, gluttonous, etc., after one drink. Other people can drink, and nothing necessarily offensive will befall them. In general, anything that affects the brain has the potential to be sinful. In the day of the disciples, it is believed that wine had the alcoholic comparable, or weaker than modern beer, so the "buzz" would have been weaker.

The Bible doesn't define drunkenness, it assumes that we know what it means, and we are instructed in it to not get drunk.

I personally am careful with it. A beer or a wedding toast of champagne will not affect me. I have not tested my limits.

Drunkenness in the Bible:
Its Symptoms and Effects.
These are most vividly portrayed: (1) some of its physical symptoms (Job 12:25; Ps 107:27; Prov 23:29; Isa 19:14; 28:8; 29:9; Jer 25:16); (2) its mental effects: exhilaration (Gen 43:34), loss of understanding and balance of judgment (Isa 28:7; Hos 4:11); (3) its effects on man's happiness and prosperity: its immediate effect is to make one oblivious of his misery; but ultimately it "biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder," and leads to woe and sorrow (Prov 23:29-32) and to poverty (Prov 23:21; compare 21:17; Ecclesiasticus 19:1); hence, wine is called a "mocker" deceiving the unwise (Prov 20:1); (4) its moral and spiritual effects: it leads to a maladministration of justice (Prov 31:5; Isa 5:23), provokes anger and a contentious, brawling spirit (Prov 20:1; 23:29; Ecclesiasticus 31:26,29), and conduces to a profligate life (Eph 5:18; "riot," literally, profligacy). It is allied with gambling and licentiousness (Joel 3:3), and indecency (Gen 9:21 f). Above all, it deadens the spiritual sensibilities, produces a callous indifference to religious influences and destroys all serious thought (Isa 5:12).

I enjoy an occasional drink, but not enough to get drunk.
3 beers or 2 cocktails is sufficient for me.

GravyTrain2012 said:

Haha!! Do you have any Scriptural basis for your argument? That would be awesome xD

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Well mine refers mostly to the letters written by Paul, such as Ephesians. Bacchus was a local deity in those areas, in the same sense that Moloch was a local deity of the Leviticus culture. Where Ephesians states that drunkenness leads to debauchery/dissipation/excess (translators can't seem to make up their mind about that word's meaning in English), it is likely an allusion to the Bacchus orgy-worship. Any historian versed in these cultures will tell you that. Around the time this epistle was written, Bacchus worship was in full swing. They worshiped him through debauchery, as they thought by imitating his personality traits, they were showing fealty. Worshipping another god. Idolatry. You know how God feels about that, I'm sure.

BFine said:

Drunkenness in the Bible:
Its Symptoms and Effects.
These are most vividly portrayed: (1) some of its physical symptoms (Job 12:25; Ps 107:27; Prov 23:29; Isa 19:14; 28:8; 29:9; Jer 25:16); (2) its mental effects: exhilaration (Gen 43:34), loss of understanding and balance of judgment (Isa 28:7; Hos 4:11); (3) its effects on man's happiness and prosperity: its immediate effect is to make one oblivious of his misery; but ultimately it "biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder," and leads to woe and sorrow (Prov 23:29-32) and to poverty (Prov 23:21; compare 21:17; Ecclesiasticus 19:1); hence, wine is called a "mocker" deceiving the unwise (Prov 20:1); (4) its moral and spiritual effects: it leads to a maladministration of justice (Prov 31:5; Isa 5:23), provokes anger and a contentious, brawling spirit (Prov 20:1; 23:29; Ecclesiasticus 31:26,29), and conduces to a profligate life (Eph 5:18; "riot," literally, profligacy). It is allied with gambling and licentiousness (Joel 3:3), and indecency (Gen 9:21 f). Above all, it deadens the spiritual sensibilities, produces a callous indifference to religious influences and destroys all serious thought (Isa 5:12).

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I don't really know how to respond to this, BFine. All I can tell you is this: On the few occasions I've gotten a bit drunk with my friends, NONE of these things have taken place. In fact, drunken discussions of scripture are surprisingly enjoyable! You can be totally serious and maintain perfect spiritual sensibilities while intoxicated. You just feel a little woozy while you're being totally serious!

Leonfrost if none of those things occurred then you weren't drunk,
your state would be described as tipsy.

BFine said:

Leonfrost if none of those things occurred then you weren't drunk,
your state would be described as tipsy.

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I don't know...that seems kinda weird. Admittedly I don't know a lot about drinking, but I'm pretty sure I was legitimately drunk. Maybe. I don't know. I hit a point where any additional alcohol I drank didn't make me feel any more affected by it, so whatever state I was in was my limit. What's weird was, I also didn't feel hung over the next morning.

people are destroyed from lack of knowledge

What is your take on it?

I drink semi-frequently.

Do you think we should abstain from it?

No, and/or only if you want to.

If not then how much can we drink?

However much that it does not impact your day to day life. I drink what most would consider "a fair amount" I'd say, but I still wake up every morning and go to work sober and do my duties to society. Then I go home and I enjoy myself. Sometimes that involves alcohol, sometimes not, but that's my choice and no one's business as long as it does not impact them in any way.

I guess a better question would be what is the biblical definition of drunkenness?

God gave me a brain, I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself what is good and bad, right and wrong for my life. I do not need a compilation of texts written 2,000 years ago to decide what is good for my unique life. I'm not saying the Bible is important or unimportant, but rather indicating that I believe nearly everything in our lives is entirely "up to us" and that our relationship with God and with scripture is also just as unique. Blanket-statements/judgments are the works of the Devil if there were any.

GravyTrain2012 said:

What is your take on it?

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It's a blessing that some make an idol of.

Same as food, sex, money, family, whatever.

GravyTrain2012 said:

Do you think we should abstain from it?

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Not necessarily, depends on the individual.

GravyTrain2012 said:

If not then how much can we drink? Enough to feel some sort of effect? Stop before you feel an effect?

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As much as your conscience will allow.

Alcohol is one of those things that the Bible has not gone into full description of what is drunk for all intents and purposes.

Other resources people have provided have been fine... But I just do not feel that there is a uniform answer we can come to.

It is also important to understand that alcohol affects everyone very differently.

I have had some moments in my life in which I have been very alcoholic.

I can tell you this: you shouldn't drink alcohol if you use it as an excuse for poor behavior, or heck, you shouldn't even do it if it leads to any poor behavior.

I allow myself to drink about once every week or two. I also only do it on a happy occasion and I generally only do it with very close friends and not with people I do not know.

There are just too many things that could negatively happen.

Plus... Sometimes the problem has nothing to do with you even though you are drinking, but the act of drinking too much and being a party to other people's excessive drinking results in being an agent facilitating their own issues.

We may not think ourselves guilty for the poor decisions other people make when they are drunk but there is a certain amount of guilt in not intervening to stop people from foolish behavior.

It is alcohol's potential for taking away ones self control that makes it most dangerous and it is very deceiving.I used to get drunk when I was fighting a losing battle with my depression and bitterness due to decades of bullying.It made things so much worse and my poor wife was very worried about me and felt so helpless.It causes so much misery.I have a very occasional drink now and usually just the one.
I don't know where the idea that one can 'drink to forget' comes from.It had the exact opposite effect on me and usually the memories would be bad ones and bitterness took hold, strengthened by the drink.
Now a glass of wine is an occasional treat and it's been quite a while since my wife and I had a glass but since it is our 17th anniversary this week ,we will be having such a treat.
Thanks be to our wonderful Lord who has brought my wife and I together and has taken away my bitterness and anguish.He has washed away my sins and given me a new nature and the peace that the world cannot give.
I'd much rather be filled with the spirit than drink to excess.

alive2Christ said:

It is alcohol's potential for taking away ones self control that makes it most dangerous and it is very deceiving.I used to get drunk when I was fighting a losing battle with my depression and bitterness due to decades of bullying.It made things so much worse and my poor wife was very worried about me and felt so helpless.It causes so much misery.I have a very occasional drink now and usually just the one.
I don't know where the idea that one can 'drink to forget' comes from.It had the exact opposite effect on me and usually the memories would be bad ones and bitterness took hold, strengthened by the drink.
Now a glass of wine is an occasional treat and it's been quite a while since my wife and I had a glass but since it is our 17th anniversary this week ,we will be having such a treat.
Thanks be to our wonderful Lord who has brought my wife and I together and has taken away my bitterness and anguish.He has washed away my sins and given me a new nature and the peace that the world cannot give.
I'd much rather be filled with the spirit than drink to excess.

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Amen to the bolded part. God is good. Sins have no hold over those who believe in the power of God!