the old and new covenants....

visionary said:

Let me ask you this... Why did God have food laws in the first place?

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The laws regarding clean and unclean food were part of the ceremonial laws, as were the laws regarding the uncleanness of childbirth, sexual intercourse, all bodily discharges, etc., and the purifications of uncleanness.

Their purpose was to show/teach/illustrate, through patterns and symbols (Heb 10:1), the meaning of spiritual uncleanness (sin) and spiritual cleanness (holiness, set apart from sin).

They were neither moral regulations nor health regulations.
They were ceremonial holiness regulations, ceremonies which symbolically showed the meaning of sin (spiritual uncleanness), remittance of sin (purification ceremonies), and holiness (set apart from spiritual uncleanness).

That all ended with the availability of Christ's cleansing blood which washes away our sin and purifies us through faith in him, of which they were a type, pattern or shadow (Heb 10:1).

Clare73 said:

The laws regarding clean and unclean food were part of the ceremonial laws, as were the laws regarding the uncleanness of childbirth, sexual intercourse, all bodily discharges, etc., and the purifications of uncleanness.

Their purpose was to show/teach/illustrate, through patterns and symbols, the meaning of spiritual uncleanness (sin) and spiritual cleanness (holiness, set apart from sin).

They were neither moral regulations nor health regulations.
They were ceremonial holiness regulations, ceremonies which symbolically showed the meaning of sin (spiritual uncleanness), purification from sin (purification ceremonies), and holiness (set apart from spiritual uncleanness).

That all ended with the availability of Christ's cleansing blood which washes away our sin and purifies us through faith in him, of which they were a type or pattern.

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If you were to ceremonially washing your hand would you do it with air or water?

visionary said:

If you were to ceremonially washing your hand would you do it with air or water?

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Is there a prescription in the Mosaic Law for "ceremonially" washing the hand? If so, that's what I would "ceremonially" do.

Clare73 said:

The laws regarding clean and unclean food were part of the ceremonial laws, as were the laws regarding the uncleanness of childbirth, sexual intercourse, all bodily discharges, etc., and the purifications of uncleanness.

Their purpose was to show/teach/illustrate, through patterns and symbols, the meaning of spiritual uncleanness (sin) and spiritual cleanness (holiness, set apart from sin).

They were neither moral regulations nor health regulations.
They were ceremonial holiness regulations, ceremonies which symbolically showed the meaning of sin (spiritual uncleanness), purification from sin (purification ceremonies), and holiness (set apart from spiritual uncleanness).

That all ended with the availability of Christ's cleansing blood which washes away our sin and purifies us through faith in him, of which they were a type or pattern.

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You haven't yet watched the video have you. Its clear that you do not want to look at anything that would prove your opinion wrong. Fine. Then answer this.

Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

No ceremonial laws were given at this point, but yet there were clean and unclean animals.

visionary said:

Let's say this in plain english... it is not what a person eats that makes them unclean, it is what comes out of their mouth that makes them unclean... But that has nothing to do with the food laws.

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In context, Jesus was discussing the Law. His statement is in reference to the laws on unclean food making them unclean.

Who gets to declare what is clean or unclean.. God... and God in the flesh is the same God who declared certain foods unclean.

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The Word of God gets to declare what is clean and unclean, and it gives a new order in Heb 9:9-10; Ro 14:14, 17, 20;
1Co 8:8, 10:25, 1Tim 4:3-5; Col 2:16-19.

Let me reword this.... Let no one tell you the regulations regarding eating what God declared food for man or on how the appointed days are to be kept.. because it is about the body of Christ.

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Christians take their regulations from the Son's revelation in the NT Word of God.

PROPHECYKID said:

You haven't yet watched the video have you. Its clear that you do not want to look at anything that would prove your opinion wrong. Fine. Then answer this.

Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

No ceremonial laws were given at this point, but yet there were clean and unclean animals.

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You think my answer is not in agreement with the video?

I'm not giving you my opinion. I'm giving you what the NT Word of God states.
I prefer to get my knowledge from the Word of God.

Though not recorded, there were regulations for sacrifices (and other matters) which were offered since the time of Adam. Clean and unclean in Gen refers to sacrificial purposes, not eating purposes.

visionary said:

All food that God declared is food for man.. is healthy... not that which God declared is not food for man....

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The Word of God declares all food is for man, both before the Mosaic law (Ge 1:29-30, 9:3) and after the Mosiac law (Heb 9:9-10; Ro 14:14, 17: 20; 1Co 8:8, 10:25; 1Tim 4:3-5; Col 2:16-19).

The letter to the Christian Hebrews reveals that the Mosaic law was temporary. It was set aside (Heb 7:18-19) when the Levitical priesthood in the order of Aaron, on which the Law was based, was replaced with the priesthood in the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:11), and Aaron's priesthood was replaced with Christ as its eternal high priest (Heb 7:17, 20), in fulfillment of the prophecy in Ps 110:4.

Because the priesthood on which it was based was changed (Heb 7:11), the Law had to be changed (Heb 7:12) from the law of Moses to the law of Christ (Heb 9:10; Jas 2:8; Gal 6:2; 1Co 9:21; Ro 13:8-10).

The law of Moses has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and is replaced with the law of Christ (1Co 9:20-21).
The food laws are part of the law of Moses, and that is why they no longer apply.

Clare73 said:

Is there a prescription in the Mosaic Law for "ceremonially" washing the hand? If so, that's what I would "ceremonially" do.

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That is what the disciples were nailed for.. not washing their hands in the air... that is why our Lord had to answer the accusation with "it is not what goes in the mouth"... it helps to know the setting... and no there is no mosaic law for washing the hands other than the priest's and they use real water..

visionary said:

That is what the disciples were nailed for.. not washing their hands in the air... that is why our Lord had to answer the accusation with "it is not what goes in the mouth"... it helps to know the setting... and no there is no mosaic law for washing the hands other than the priest's and they use real water..

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So you are saying the food was made unclean by their "unwashed" hands and not as a result of the food laws?
Okay, that would be consistent with the text.

But we still have the Word of God in Heb 9:9-10; Ro 14:14, 17, 20; 1Co 8:8, 10:25, 1Tim 4:3-5; Col 2:16-17 that all food is clean, as it was before the Mosaic law (Ge 9:3, 1:29-30).

That would be in accordance with the setting aside of the Mosaic law because the Levitical priesthood in the order of Aaron, on which the Law was based, was replaced by the priesthood in the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:11), with Christ as its eternal high priest (Heb 7:17, 20), in fulfillment of Ps 110:4.

And since the Aaronic priesthood was changed, on which the Mosaic law was based (Heb 7:11), there had to be a change in the Mosaic law based on it, to the law based on Christ, the new and eternal high priest, which is the law of Christ (Heb 9:10; Jas 2:8; Gal 6:2; 1Co 9:20-21; Ro 13:8-10).

The Word of God reveals that God's people are no longer under the law of Moses (including the food laws) which has been set aside with the Levitical priesthood, they are now under the law of Christ.

Clare73 said:

So you are saying the food was made unclean by their "unwashed" hands and not as a result of the food laws?
Okay, that would be consistent with the text.

But we still have the Word of God in Heb 9:9-10; Ro 14:14, 17, 20; 1Co 8:8, 10:25, 1Tim 4:3-5; Col 2:16-17 that all food is clean, as it was before the Mosaic law (Ge 9:3, 1:29-30).

That would be in accordance with the setting aside of the Mosaic law because the Levitical priesthood in the order of Aaron, on which the Law was based, was replaced by the priesthood in the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:11), with Christ as its eternal high priest (Heb 7:17, 20).

And since the Aaronic priesthood was changed, on which the Mosaic law was based (Heb 7:11), there had to be a change from the Mosaic law based on it to the law based on Christ, which is the law of Christ (Heb 9:10; Jas 2:8; Gal 6:2; 1Co 9:20-21; Ro 13:8-10).

The Word of God reveals that God's people are no longer under the law of Moses (including the food laws) which has been set aside with the Levitical priesthood, they are now under the law of Christ.

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One at a time... Think.... when they were talking about food, it was within Mosaic guidelines... then a lot of the verses will make more sense.. most of the text are dealing with the oral traditional aspect and not about the food itself. Just like I have shown you in the first example.

visionary said:

One at a time... Think.... when they were talking about food, it was within Mosaic guidelines... then a lot of the verses will make more sense.. most of the text are dealing with the oral traditional aspect and not about the food itself. Just like I have shown you in the first example.

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The Mosaic laws weren't guidelines, they were commandments, whose transgression brought a curse (Dt 27:26).

The texts I am dealing with in the NT are not about the food laws.
They are about the Mosaic law, which includes the food laws, being set aside, per Heb 7:18-19.

Because the Mosaic law is set aside (Heb 7:18-19), the food laws in it are necessarily set aside, and that is corroborated throughout the NT Word of God (Heb 9:9-10; Ro 14:14,17, 20; 1Co 8:8, 10:25; 1Tim 4:3-5; Col 2:16-19).

Clare73 said:

The Mosaic laws weren't guidelines, they were commandments, whose transgression brought a curse (Dt 27:26).

The texts I am dealing with in the NT are not about the food laws.
They are about the Mosaic law, which includes the food laws, being set aside, per Heb 7:18-19.

Because the Mosaic law is set aside (Heb 7:18-19), the food laws in it are necessarily set aside, and that is corroborated throughout the NT Word of God (Heb 9:9-10; Ro 14:14,17, 20; 1Co 8:8, 10:25; 1Tim 4:3-5; Col 2:16-19).

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Find me any scripture that states that you must make a sacrifice for eating what is forbidden in the mosaic food guidelines.... It is not a sin... the closest you are going to come, is where it is called an abomination....

Leviticus 11:10
And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

Leviticus 11:11
They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

Leviticus 11:12
Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Leviticus 11:13
And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

Leviticus 11:20
All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

Leviticus 11:23
But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

visionary said:

Find me any scripture that states that you must make a sacrifice for eating what is forbidden in the mosaic food guidelines.... It is not a sin... the closest you are going to come, it where it is called an abomination....

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How did sin and sacrifices get in the discussion?

Clare73 said:

How did sin and sacrifices get in the discussion?

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Yeshua went to the cross as a sacrifice... for sin

visionary said:

Yeshua went to the cross as a sacrifice... for sin

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Agreed.

???

Clare73 said:

Agreed.

???

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God's food list in not on the same listing as sacrifice for sins list.

visionary said:

God's food list in not on the same listing as sacrifice for sins list.

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As I've said, the ceremonail laws regarding clean and unclean anything, including food, were about holiness, not morality or health.

What was declared clean and unclean in the Mosaic law was simply to show in types, patterns, pictures, shadows (Heb 10:1; Col 2:16-17) the nature of sin (spiritual uncleanness), the nature of remittance of sin (cleansings) and nature of holiness (spiritual cleanness). But the ceremonial regulations themselves were not the reality of sin or holiness, either one (Heb 10:1), they were only types, pictures of them.

Although required of transgression of other laws, transgression of the food laws did not require sacrifice to remove the uncleanness. Only time was required, but during that time, they were not allowed to participate in the holy things, because they were "unholy," in pattern or shadow only (Heb 10:1).

But as part of the Mosaic law which has been replaced with the law of Christ, the food laws no longer apply.

Clare73 said:

As I've said, the ceremonail laws regarding clean and unclean anything, including food, were about holiness, not morality or health.

What was declared clean and unclean in the Mosaic law was simply to show in types, patterns, pictures, shadows (Heb 10:1; Col 2:16-17) the nature of sin (spiritual uncleanness), the nature of remittance of sin (cleansings) and nature of holiness (spiritual cleanness). But the ceremonial regulations themselves were not the reality of sin or holiness, either one (Heb 10:1), they were only types, pictures of them.

Although required of transgression of other laws, transgression of the food laws did not require sacrifice to remove the uncleanness. Only time was required, but during that time, they were not allowed to participate in the holy things, because they were "unholy," in pattern or shadow only (Heb 10:1).

But as part of the Mosaic law which has been replaced with the law of Christ, the food laws no longer apply.

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You are making it out that the Son and the Father were not one and the same, and they disagreed.... that is not consistent... The fault was with the people.. so the law was moved to the heart.. not that the law was at fault and thus had to be changed... we are the temple now to participate in holy things.. so are you going to put an abomination in His Holy Temple?

visionary said:

You are making it out that the Son and the Father were not one and the same, and they disagreed.... that is not consistent... The fault was with the people.. so the law was moved to the heart.. not that the law was at fault and thus had to be changed... we are the temple now to participate in holy things.. so are you going to put an abomination in His Holy Temple?

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The Word of God reveals that it is about the change of the priesthood from the order of Aaron to the order of Melchizedek, that the Mosiac law was based on the Aaronic priesthood (Heb 7:11), and therefore a change of the priesthood required a change of the law based on it (Heb 7:12), in fullfillment of the prophecy is Ps 110:4.

The law of Moses is changed to the law of Christ because of the change in the priesthood, on which they are based (Heb 7:11-12).

The Word of God also reveals that the Mosaic law was weak and useless (Heb 7:19) to make us favorable to God, so it was replaced with a better hope, Jesus Christ, who through grace by faith in him now, himself, makes us acceptable to God. We don't do it ourselves because we can't.

The Word of God also reveals that favor with God was never about obeying the Law, it was always about faith in the Promise (Jesus Christ)--Gen 15:6.

The Word of God reveals that we cannot acquire favor with God according to the Law, because it has to be kept perfectly to do so, and no one can do that. Therefore, all who rely on the Mosaic law for favor with God are under a curse for their transgressions of it.

Favor with God is only by faith in Jesus Christ, where we obey the law of Christ (love).
That is the new order (Heb 9:10).

Clare73 said:

The Word of God reveals that it is about the change of the priesthood from the order of Aaron to the order of Melchizedek, that the Mosiac law was based on the Aaronic priesthood (Heb 7:11), and therefore a change of the priesthood required a change of the law based on it (Heb 7:12), in fullfillment of the prophecy is Ps 110:4.

The law of Moses is changed to the law of Christ because of the change in the priesthood, on which they are based (Heb 7:11-12).

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And that is all...