Fauxcahontas - Trail of Elizabeth Warren's Tears

variant said:

You'll have to explain why buying and selling houses is wrong to win that argument edwin.

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Meh, I don't think so. I think the argument is sound as constructed.

EdwinWillers said:

Meh, I don't think so. I think the argument is sound as constructed.

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You have to show that what she did was on par with what she was angry about the banks doing for the charge of hypocricy to work.

variant said:

You have to show that what she did was on par with what she was angry about the banks doing for the charge of hypocricy to work.

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Again, I think the argument was sound as constructed.

variant said:

You have to show that what she did was on par with what she was angry about the banks doing for the charge of hypocricy to work.

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Lets say you are a bank, now I am angry with you for forclosing on houses when you didn't have to.

I get on tv and make noise about the evils of banks forclosing on homes.

While i'm doing that I'm busy buying homes that were forclosed on and selling them for profit.

She's profiting from the misery of forclosed home owners just as much as the banks are.

rambot said:

Don't know what's going on with all these claims but frankly I don't care.

Every time I've heard her speak she is freakin' BRILLIANT. She has a position of power which she, as best as I can tell, seems to be earned on a career and work ethic that has been above reproach. She is intelligent smart and well spoken. She stands up for the American people.

What better reason to NOT elect her in the modern American politick!


I couldn't read the link (didn't work) but are you REALLY implicating her in the housing crisis because she flipped a few houses? I hope not because she flipped those houses IN THE 1990s?!
As smears go, that's pretty lame.

Did she do it naked or while trying to marry a lesbian lover?

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So, let me get this straight: you don't care if she lied to get what she wanted because you like what she's telling you now?

Makes sense to me.

TerranceL said:

Lets say you are a bank, now I am angry with you for forclosing on houses when you didn't have to.

I get on tv and make noise about the evils of banks forclosing on homes.

While i'm doing that I'm busy buying homes that were forclosed on and selling them for profit.

She's profiting from the misery of forclosed home owners just as much as the banks are.

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I think you are miscaracterizeing Warrens stance to streach a hypocricy charge.

Did she say that all forclosures are wrong? Or, was she critisizeing specific harsh actions by banks in the post houseing crash economy?

As I remember the issue she is generally against forclosure abuses.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/15/elizabeth-warren-foreclosure-investigation_n_899659.html

If I was a bank that was illegally cutting corners in forclosure red tape in order to save myself some money and warren bought that house knowingly and sold it for a profit, then you might have a case.

But the mere fact that someone buys a forclosre dosen't make them a hypocrit if they want to later protect people from illegal forclosures by banks after a mass crash of the houseing market.

EdwinWillers said:

Again, I think the argument was sound as constructed.

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The argument was unsound and the comparison was unrelated. How do you feel about people who buy repo'd cars at auctions and sell them at a profit? Are they car market predators?

EdwinWillers said:

Sure Griz, she decries "heartless foreclosures" but turns right around and makes a killing off flipping foreclosed homes.

Or, am I missing something?

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I'd be the last to defend Warren but houses that get flipped are not necessarily foreclosed properties. In fact in the 90's when foreclosures were relatively rare, most flipped housed probably weren't foreclosed.

Rion said:

So, let me get this straight: you don't care if she lied to get what she wanted because you like what she's telling you now?

Makes sense to me.

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What did she "get" by ticking off that box?

chaz345 said:

I'd be the last to defend Warren but houses that get flipped are not necessarily foreclosed properties. In fact in the 90's when foreclosures were relatively rare, most flipped housed probably weren't foreclosed.

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Even if they were foreclosed properties, we are talking the 90's, and willers presented no evidence that the foreclosures were due to "predatory" banks or simply homeowners who could no longer pay their mortgages.

Rion said:

So, let me get this straight: you don't care if she lied to get what she wanted because you like what she's telling you now?

Makes sense to me.

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I have some really troubling news to let you in on Rion. EVERYBODY lies and these people (everybody) tend to lie to get what they want.

I have some even MORE shocking news to tell you: politicians are exceptionally impressive and prolific liars. Is this news?

It's both quaint and disappointing when people are shocked that politicians lie and use that to create massive character tableaus about how useless all their opinions become. I mean, if people ACTUALLY didn't vote for liars, we would have NO government at all.


Do I care that she lied in general? Yes (assuming it's proven to be a lie).
But it doesn't really seem like either side has a really air tight handle on evidence. Also is being misinformed by parents the same as knowingly and/or maliciously telling false truths?.
Is this issue important enough for me to cry and wail about what an awful human being she is OR what an inappropriate politician she would be? Pfffft. Hardly. Voting for candidate because you think "they are honest upstanding people who don't lie" is SOOOOOOO 1940s.

Also, it's not that I "like" what she's telling me now. It's that I think she is telling some very, very important truths that, back when the crisis was unfolding, you probably would have agreed with whole heartedly.

But I'm curious, in regards to her message and the work that she's done for your government so far, how would you rate it? I like using 200 year old stories as a reason to justify voting for someone else, but what about what she has done in her current roles?

Two, what possible relevance exists in the fact that she "only" did it in the '90's? What were the '90's, some sort of "exempt decade" from hypocrisy, that whatever one did in that decade is immaterial or somehow deserving of automatic forgiveness? I *know* you don't want to assert THAT.

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Prove that she rallies against any and ALL types of foreclosures and not just "unnecessary" or "predatory" ones (without quote mining pleaaaaase) OR mortgages that were set up by banks with aforeknowledge of an inability of the signatory to pay.

Three, I gave you an 'out' by pondering the possibility she may have somehow "evolved" in the last 15 years (as Obama is wont to do whenever the situation warrants), but you didn't take it. Why? Is the "evolution" from inconvenient truths not possible with her?

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Because I believe the circumstances of the housing and mortgage market, laws and environment evolved and that she responded to it by stopping house flipping (back in the 90s). Given her current message, this seems like a reasonable thing to deduce; that she doesn't have a problem with banks foreclosing on houses (cause sometimes, even you have to accept, that must happen), just with certain kinds of foreclosures, and the environment that breeds them.
Do you believe the housing market and laws governing mortgages was the same in the early 1990s as during the 2000s?

Four, you're making more of an issue with this than I am - which I also find curious.

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You made a claim. I took exception to it. I fail to see how I'M making a bigger issue of this than you are. I'd argue we are equally making it the same amount of issue.

I had ABSOLUTELY no idea that the conservative wing of American politics had such a hate on for house flipping.... weird. I know very, very very, few flippers personally (maybe only a couple) but they both were STAUNCHLY conservative in their political views.

rambot said:

I had ABSOLUTELY no idea that the conservative wing of American politics had such a hate on for house flipping.... weird. I know very, very very, few flippers personally (maybe only a couple) but they both were STAUNCHLY conservative in their political views.

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I don't think the conservative wing has a problem with house flipping, it appears to just be those who will go to any lengths to damage Warren's reputation.

SOAD said:

I don't think the conservative wing has a problem with house flipping, it appears to just be those who will go to any lengths to damage Warren's reputation.

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Noted and agreed!

NightHawkeye said:

It doesn't matter whether conservatives have any problem with house-flipping. What matters is whether house-flipping is inconsistent with her own professed ideology and whether her potential supporters have a problem with her pattern of lying, cheating and stealing to achieve her personal goals at the expense of some of those in society who have the least to give.

That's her now well-documented pattern of behavior. Shouldn't that be known among her potential supporters?

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As has been argued, her comments about "predatory" banks have nothing to do with her house flipping in the 90's. Sorry you do not see the difference. I would only support her against false witness against her and do not care if she wins or loses.

chaz345 said:

I'd be the last to defend Warren but houses that get flipped are not necessarily foreclosed properties. In fact in the 90's when foreclosures were relatively rare, most flipped housed probably weren't foreclosed.

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I agree, though the article noted they were.

It's not an egregious thing in my mind, but it is a piece of the picture and worth noting on that account.

It seems to this point voters in Massachusetts are not up in arms over Elizabeth Warren's claim to be part indian/minority. The election race remains close. Had a laugh over Doug Power's comment. If voters in Mass. found out Warren was 1/32 Republican, it would be a different story.

"Massachusetts Senate race update: Scott Brown in dead heat with Fauxcahontas"

Michelle Malkin » Massachusetts Senate race update: Scott Brown in dead heat with Fauxcahontas

EdwinWillers said:

I agree, though the article noted they were.

It's not an egregious thing in my mind, but it is a piece of the picture and worth noting on that account.

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Good point. There's also the tendency among people who are up at arms about predatory banks to view pretty much any and all foreclosures as the result of a big bad mean evil greedy bank bending the rules and the homeowner's own bad choices never contribute at all.