Zimmerman's bond revoked

Vylo

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Perhaps this is unrelated to this case but I wonder how "Self defense" rulings work, generally.

If I were to antagonize and antagonize someone to the point where they lash out at me then I use force to stop them, do I bare any responsibility?

But how much did he antogonize? I get the feeling the prosecution has something up their sleeve, or they wouldn't have reached for 2nd degree.

The first thing they would have to do is prove that he behaved irresponsibility, a daunting task based on the evidence we have

He behaved irresponsibly. They will prove that in the first 5 seconds. HOW irresponsibly will be key.
 
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MachZer0

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Actually, he wrote perceived, so you are mistaken.
I know he wrote that. It was highlighted after all. But Zimmerman is presumed innocent, as are all those charged with crimes. :wave:

Either way people are still sending money to somebody who they don't know is innocent, and that is where the ignorance based on ideology enters. Zimmerman must be innocent if the media believes he is guilty!

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For the record, Zimmerman appears innocent based on the facts of the case that we currently know. There isn't one shred of evidence that ponts to him being guilty of any crime.
 
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MachZer0

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Perhaps this is unrelated to this case but I wonder how "Self defense" rulings work, generally.

If I were to antagonize and antagonize someone to the point where they lash out at me then I use force to stop them, do I bare any responsibility?

Under those circumstances, you are still entitled to defend yourself.
 
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SOAD

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I know he wrote that. It was highlighted after all. But Zimmerman is presumed innocent, as are all those charged with crimes. :wave:

For the record, Zimmerman appears innocent based on the facts of the case that we currently know. There isn't one shred of evidence that ponts to him being guilty of any crime.

The facts? We don't know all the facts. Zimmerman may need more cash, so why don't you send him some considering you have already decided that he is innocent.
 
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MachZer0

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The facts? We don't know all the facts.

Let's revisit what I said:

Zimmerman appears innocent based on the facts of the case that we currently know
:wave:

Zimmerman may need more cash, so why don't you send him some considering you have already decided that he is innocent.
Regarding the money issue, if Zimmerman's website solicits money for his defense, it was appropriate for those funds not to included in his financial claims. You can refer to the old Jim Bakker case for reference. If you solicit money for one purpose, and use it for another (especially for your personal benefit) the legal term for that is embezzlement, a crime.
 
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MachZer0

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You can say that all day and it still does not change the fact that people sent money to Zimmerman without all the facts.
I'm not sure why that matters. Zimmerman is entitled to a defense and if people send him money for his defense, we can expect that justice will be served
 
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SOAD

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I'm not sure why that matters. Zimmerman is entitled to a defense and if people send him money for his defense, we can expect that justice will be served
Go ahead and send him cash! You may find you backed the wrong horse. Too bad he is now a liar in the eyes of the court, send him more cash because the judge is most likely a liberal activist judge!
 
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WilliamB

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But how much did he antogonize? I get the feeling the prosecution has something up their sleeve, or they wouldn't have reached for 2nd degree. He behaved irresponsibly. They will prove that in the first 5 seconds. HOW irresponsibly will be key.

It's already been labeled as an "avoidable" shooting. That in its self is a slam dunk manslaughter conviction, which the jury can go with instead of murder 2.

If the prosecution can prove that zman's life was not in danger as he claims, that's murder 2. The prosecution is already suggesting that the evidence does not match zman's claims, that he was having his head bashed into the concrete at the time of the shooting. If they can prove this is false, which two eye witnesses at least already say it is, he's in a lot of trouble. Add the on scene evidence and the timeline, that definatley does not fit zman's story and you have murder 2.

This latest lie to the court goes to the heart of zman's credibility. If he's going to convince any juror this was self-defense, he has to be credible. From what I see, he so far has a reputation for lying and for disregarding orders to do what he wants to do. He was told on two seperate occasions not to carry a firearm or pursue anyone as neighborhood watch. Once by law enforcement, once by the HOA and again in the clearly stated NW policies. He then disregarded an order from dispatch to not pursue Trayvon.

He says he did stop persuing and was returning to his vehicle but that don't match the time line. So either way, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 
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mpok1519

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Under those circumstances, you are still entitled to defend yourself.

Not at all.

In my state if one assaults someone else who then retrieves a baseball bat to defend their person by using it, the initial aggressor cannot pull a gun, shoot them, and claim self defense.
 
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MachZer0

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Go ahead and send him cash! You may find you backed the wrong horse. Too bad he is now a liar in the eyes of the court, send him more cash because the judge is most likely a liberal activist judge!
The court hasn't determined him to be a liar. It just wants to revisit the situation. As I understand it, his wife is the one who testified about their finances.
 
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MachZer0

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Not at all.

In my state if one assaults someone else who then retrieves a baseball bat to defend their person by using it, the initial aggressor cannot pull a gun, shoot them, and claim self defense.
That doesn't relate to the question that was put forth. Especially since what you're describing is revenge, not self defense.
 
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MachZer0

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It's already been labeled as an "avoidable" shooting. That in its self is a slam dunk manslaughter conviction, which the jury can go with instead of murder 2.
Every shooting is avoidable so that is quite irrelevant.

If the prosecution can prove that zman's life was not in danger as he claims, that's murder 2. The prosecution is already suggesting that the evidence does not match zman's claims, that he was having his head bashed into the concrete at the time of the shooting. If they can prove this is false, which two eye witnesses at least already say it is, he's in a lot of trouble. Add the on scene evidence and the timeline, that definatley does not fit zman's story and you have murder 2.

This latest lie to the court goes to the heart of zman's credibility. If he's going to convince any juror this was self-defense, he has to be credible. From what I see, he so far has a reputation for lying and for disregarding orders to do what he wants to do. He was told on two seperate occasions not to carry a firearm or pursue anyone as neighborhood watch. Once by law enforcement, once by the HOA and again in the clearly stated NW policies. He then disregarded an order from dispatch to not pursue Trayvon.

He says he did stop persuing and was returning to his vehicle but that don't match the time line. So either way, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place.
That isn't the way the law reads. Zimmerman's life did not have to be in danger. Zimmerman only needed to reasonbly believe that his life was in danger or that he was in danger of great bodily harm.
 
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Vylo

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Every shooting is avoidable so that is quite irrelevant.

That isn't the way the law reads. Zimmerman's life did not have to be in danger. Zimmerman only needed to reasonbly believe that his life was in danger or that he was in danger of great bodily harm.

But then you can flip that around and say Martin felt his life was in danger, and then Zimmerman is the aggressor.
 
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SOAD

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The court hasn't determined him to be a liar. It just wants to revisit the situation. As I understand it, his wife is the one who testified about their finances.
When should we expect to see the lying wife put behind bars? Send them cash!
 
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SOAD

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But then you can flip that around and say Martin felt his life was in danger, and then Zimmerman is the aggressor.

Okay. These <redacted> they always get away.

Zimmerman made sure this one did not get away.
 
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mpok1519

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That doesn't relate to the question that was put forth. Especially since what you're describing is revenge, not self defense.

Which is why an initial aggressor or antagonizer cannot claim defense. And from what we can tell, Zimmerman antagonized the situation by tracking Martin which is evident from Martin's girlfriend on the phone stating Martin stated he was being followed by a stranger.
 
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mpok1519

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Every shooting is avoidable so that is quite irrelevant.

That isn't the way the law reads. Zimmerman's life did not have to be in danger. Zimmerman only needed to reasonbly believe that his life was in danger or that he was in danger of great bodily harm.


Forensics will determine that. If the ballistics show Zimmerman was distanced from Martin, that indicates his life was not in danger. Blood spatter would also help determine whether or not Zimmerman was under Martin while sustaining injury, thus another indication of a reasonable perception of danger or not.
 
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DaisyDay

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He is entitled to a pretrial hearing where his claim of self defense is decided by a judge based on a preponderance of the evidence. A ruling of self defense by the judge grants Zimmerman immunity from prosecution and from civil action
Do you have anything to back up your contention that self-defense precludes a civil suit? I've never heard that.
 
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WilliamB

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But then you can flip that around and say Martin felt his life was in danger, and then Zimmerman is the aggressor.

That's the reality right there. There can only be one person defending themself. Under Florida law, Martin was the only one who had the benefit of SYG protection thus, could respond with deadly force to ward off an armed attacker. Zimmerman can not be the persuer and have a legitamate self-defense claim, UNLESS, a crime had been commited. If no crime has been commited, one does not have the legal right to pursue someone, then kill them and walk free on self-defense. No way, no how. That's Florida at least.
 
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