What makes the USA a Christian nation?

pennmark · Jun 1, 2012

tulc said:
No it didn't, and the Declaration was illegal until we won the Revolution.

The Constitution says the USA became independent in 1776.

pennmark · Jun 1, 2012

tulc said:
...backed up by the loud end end of the gun of course.

The guns enforced the law, they did not make the law.

TerranceL · Jun 1, 2012

pennmark said:
Genesis 11:1-8.

A myth about a magical tower to heaven... really?

TerranceL · Jun 1, 2012

pennmark said:
The Constitution says the USA became independent in 1776.

And if we had lost the war it really wouldn't have mattered what year it said.

pennmark · Jun 1, 2012

TerranceL said:
And if we had lost the war it really wouldn't have mattered what year it said.

The guns enforced the law, they did not make the law.

TerranceL · Jun 1, 2012

pennmark said:
The guns enforced the law, they did not make the law.

Unless there are some sentient guns out there did you really have a point?

Grizzly · Jun 1, 2012

pennmark said:
The Constitution says the USA became independent in 1776.

Here's the constitution, Penn. Please show us where it says the USA became independent in 1776.

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

Grizzly · Jun 1, 2012

pennmark said:
The guns enforced the law, they did not make the law.

Guns allowed us to create our own laws. Guns first. Laws second.

pennmark · Jun 1, 2012

Grizzly said:
Here's the constitution, Penn. Please show us where it says the USA became independent in 1776.

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

The final line. It was signed in the year of the "Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth..."

Paulos23 · Jun 1, 2012

pennmark said:
The final line. It was signed in the year of the "Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth..."

Err...look at that sentence again. The Twelfth is the 12 colonies. The line above it says it was signed in 1787. You are getting deperate quote mining the Constatution.

TLK Valentine · Jun 1, 2012

pennmark said:
The Constitution says the USA became independent in 1776.

Took some firepower to make that statement mean anything.

Belk · Jun 1, 2012

pennmark said:
The D of I was an act of Congress, signed into law by the President. It made the USA legally independent on July 4, 1776.

No, it was just a formal explanation of Lee Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maren · Jun 1, 2012

pennmark said:
The final line. It was signed in the year of the "Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth..."

So the US actually became Independent in 1775 (1787-12= 1775)? So the DoI isn't a founding document at all (since it was a year too late) by your logic?

pennsylmark · Jun 4, 2012

Maren said:
So the US actually became Independent in 1775 (1787-12= 1775)? So the DoI isn't a founding document at all (since it was a year too late) by your logic?

Quit being silly. The Constitution was signed in the twelfth year of America's independence, 1776 being the first year.

pennsylmark · Jun 4, 2012

Belk said:
No, it was just a formal explanation of Lee Resolution.

The Lee Resolution does not cite the legal authority for declaring independence -- The D of I does.

pennsylmark · Jun 4, 2012

TLK Valentine said:
Took some firepower to make that statement mean anything.

In order for a country to be ruled by law, its government must believe that the country was born legally. Because if the country was born illegally, and if the government respected the rule of law, then the lawful thing for that government to do would be to abdicate its power to the country's legitimate soveriegn.

Because handing America back over to Great Britain would be unacceptable, it must be true that the USA was born of legal action. Since the legal authority cited were the "laws of Nature and of Nature's God", those laws must be legal to the US government.

America's firepower enforced this law, it did not make the law.

tulc · Jun 4, 2012

pennsylmark said:
In order for a country to be ruled by law, its government must believe that the country was born legally. Because if the country was born illegally, and if the government respected the rule of law, then the lawful thing for that government to do would be to abdicate its power to the country's legitimate soveriegn.

wow...you post just like someone else I know. He made that same argument and was also wrong. :wave:

Because handing America back over to Great Britain would be unacceptable,

Great Britain was no more the "legitimate sovereign" then we were.

it must be true that the USA was born of legal action. Since the legal authority cited were the "laws of Nature and of Nature's God", those laws must be legal to the US government.

No more true now than when that other guy posted it. According to the Bible the Revolutionary War was a sin:

1Samuel 15: 23 said:
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

or here:

Romans 13:1-7 said:
1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Dress it up how you will, cover it with however many platitudes or claiming to follow the "laws of Nature and of Nature's God" it still was rebelling and the Bible's not going to support it. :wave:

America's firepower enforced this law, it did not make the law.

having fire power sure helps when you make a law you want obeyed.

tulc(makes lots of laws but not having any firepower no one obeys them) :sigh:

Grizzly · Jun 4, 2012

pennsylmark said:
In order for a country to be ruled by law, its government must believe that the country was born legally.

Are you posting here on CF legally? Or did you decide to create a sock account just for fun?

TLK Valentine · Jun 4, 2012

pennsylmark said:
In order for a country to be ruled by law, its government must believe that the country was born legally. Because if the country was born illegally, and if the government respected the rule of law, then the lawful thing for that government to do would be to abdicate its power to the country's legitimate soveriegn.

What a load of tripe -- governments respect their own law; why should they care if something is "legal" by anyone's standards but their own?

Because handing America back over to Great Britain would be unacceptable, it must be true that the USA was born of legal action.

Why would it be unacceptable? Because people don't want it?

Since the legal authority cited were the "laws of Nature and of Nature's God", those laws must be legal to the US government.

But not to the British government -- it took the Kentucky long rifle to get the Brits to sit down at the table.

America's firepower enforced this law, it did not make the law.

And had that firepower failed, the law would've been forgotten and worthless. Laws are only as meaningful as the ability to enforce them -- otherwise, they're empty words.

Trogool · Jun 4, 2012

pennsylmark said:
Since the legal authority cited were the "laws of Nature and of Nature's God", those laws must be legal to the US government.

So, Ahura Mazda?

Ahura Mazda spake unto Spitama Zarathushtra, saying:

I have made every land dear (to its people), even though it had no charms whatever in it: had I not made every land dear (to its people), even though it had no charms whatever in it, then the whole living world would have invaded the Airyana Vaeja.

The first of the good lands and countries which I, Ahura Mazda, created, was the Airyana Vaeja, by the Vanguhi Daitya.
Thereupon came Angra Mainyu, who is all death, and he counter-created the serpent in the river and Winter, a work of the Daevas.

What makes the USA a Christian nation?

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