Genesis 1 in the Hebrew

nephilimiyr

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I believe the bible is a document that focuses on a history of the earth as well as the human history that has comprised the last 6,000 years.

However I believe that the evidence points to a much older earth. It is possible to see this if one would use the original Hebrew by reading only the first few verses of Genesis. Because of the imprecision and differences in languages between our english and the Hebrew, such translations can lose much of their meaning and allow for some slight misinterpreation. I believe that because of this confusion, the truth of our earth's past has been distorted.

"In the beginning" is alot more complex when reading it in the Hebrew. The Hebrew word translated beginning in english is the compound word bere****h. The noun re****h does mean beginning but the modifier that is used which is "be" points to something alittle different. First of all whenever Hebrew writters wanted to convey an actual beginning of things they most often used the word techillah. Moses didn't use this word for a very good reason, because he didn't want us to think this was the actual beginning of all things but the beginning of a certain point in history. The modifier "be" is to convey that this was a beginning from something previous.

What this tells me is that "In the beginning" in Genesis 1 can be seen to mean not in the beginning of all time and things, but the start of our current history, human history. In other words the Earth was molded and reformed at a specific time.

In the first verses of the bible, the idea of creation is conveyed by the Hebrew verb bara. bara means to create, cut down, or dispatch. The meaning is to give the feel of working with wood. Bara also shows God didn't create the world from nothing but that he crafted an object into a finished form. The ease that is conveyed in the process of this creation is lost in the translation but in the Hebrew it was quite clear.

Hebrews 11:3 tells, Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

This explains that the worlds were framed not from nothing but rather of invisible things. In other words, reformed from some past materials. The Hebrew word translated "made" is asah. This word asah is in use for appointing or designating things. In other parts of the bible the word asah was used for appointing judges or designating cities for refuge. The judges and cities were not made or created but were appointed for a new task.

In other words I can see were it can be said that God wasn't creating the heavens and the earth but rather giving them a new task, a new reason for existence. 

The Hebrews passage gives a hint at what was here before this re-creation. In Genesis 1 it says "was without form, and void" but can also be translated from the Hebrew to read "had become without form, and void". Suggesting that some event had taken place to cause the old creation to become wasted and destroyed.

Many scholars suggest that there was a grand pause in the first verse. So that the first half points to a perfect work of creation and the second half saying later it had become corrupt. So that the opening passage could read in english like this "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.....but eventually the earth was without form, and void".

The Hebrew word translated as "without form" is tohuw. This same word is used elsewhere in the bible and is used for several meanings including formlessness, emptiness, and confusion. It also is associated with wasteland and solitary wilderness. The the choice of this word tohuw hints that wasteland comes from idolatry, pride, and sin which is reinforced with the "void" phrase. 

The Hebrew word "bohuw" is imployed throughout the bible in connextion with the desolation of a city or nation, it hints at a judgement from God. Bohuw is the Hebrew word for void.

I believe that the "without form, and void" is not just physical desolation but spiritual as well. 

 
 

lucaspa

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Originally posted by nephilimiyr
I believe the bible is a document that focuses on a history of the earth as well as the human history that has comprised the last 6,000 years.

However I believe that the evidence points to a much older earth. It is possible to see this if one would use the original Hebrew by reading only the first few verses of Genesis. Because of the imprecision and differences in languages between our english and the Hebrew, such translations can lose much of their meaning and allow for some slight misinterpreation. I believe that because of this confusion, the truth of our earth's past has been distorted. 

This is one of the "gap" theories of exegesis.  IOW, an original creation long ago followed by a long but unspecified gap until the the start of the rest of Genesis 1.

The problems with this exegesis are pretty much the same as those as all the other literalistic exegeses: the timing and sequence of creation events in the rest of Genesis 1 simply doesn't match what we find in the extrabiblical evidence.  Everything we know says that the earth is a relative latecomer to the universe, being a mere 4.5 billion years old, with stars and galaxies being much, much older.  But stars aren't created until the 4th day.

So, no matter how much you try to twist the Hebrew to fit your preconceived notions that Genesis is literal history, it doesn't work.
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by lucaspa
  But stars aren't created until the 4th day.

Genesis 1:14-16
    And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: [15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. [16] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.


Moses is not talking about God making the Sun, Moon & Stars. He is just talking about them appearing in the firmament. Sixteen Billion years of time could have passed before the Bible even begins. But for some reason, God could have decided to destroy everything and start all over again. Only He did not destroy the record of the life that was here, before recorded history began.

This of course would mean that Darwin was totally wrong, in that there would be no connection at all between any prehistoric life and life that began 12,000 years ago. One did not evolve into the other. Rather God destroyed the first and started all over again.

Only of course the man God created this time was quite a bit more advanced than the prehistoric man.
 
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nephilimiyr

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First of a word to the moderators

Just because four letters together spell out a cuss word doesn't mean it should be asterisked out of the middle of a word that has nothing to do with that cuss word. Come on man! It's a Hebrew word!

lucaspa what makes you so sure I'm twisting the original Hebrew? Do you know what the original Hebrew say's? I don't use any preconcieved notions but try to understand what the original Hebrew is trying to convey.

I believe the opening passage in Genesis suggests that the universe could be very, very old. I believe that at some juncture in time that that first creation could've became corrupt where God may have past judgement upon it. God then recreated or reformed the earth on an actual six day time table. I believe the original Hebrew supports this.  

The "Let there be light" phrase does not appear to be a creative act when read from the original Hebrew. In the Hebrew all this say's is that the light was made to appear or made visible.

I believe JohnR7 does a good job explaining what I believe except I would say that if a humaniod creature was on the earth before Adam he did not only lack the intelligence of Adam but he lacked the image of God which I believe refers to our mastery of the spiritual and physical demensions of our maker. God did this so that we will be able to gain control and rule his new creation.

Genesis 1:26 say's, And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea etc. etc.

 Genesis 1:28 say's, And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and REPLENISH the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. If we had not the image of God we would not be able to do this but God gave us his image so that we would be in effect rulers over his new creation. 

lucaspa if this all wasn't a recreation of something that was here before why would God command us to replenish it? After all the meaning of replenish is to make full and complete again, to supply again.

 
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by nephilimiyr
I believe JohnR7 does a good job explaining what I believe except I would say that if a humaniod creature was on the earth before Adam he did not only lack the intelligence of Adam but he lacked the image of God which I believe refers to our mastery of the spiritual and physical demensions of our maker. 

My pastor teaches the gap theory. I just asked him about it in light of the recent work that has been done in the area of DNA, esp. in the last 10 years. As far as I know, he is going to stay with the gap theory. That Adam was the first man to actually have a soul and be made in the image of God. Any bones they find, if they are monkey or human like, did not have the soul of a man, but were little more then the animals.

Actually, the first Adam pretty much had everything that the Second Adam had. He was made in perfection. He had the tree of life and would live forever. He was taught by God. Jesus came to restore everything that Adam had lost.

We have just compleated the third sermon on a series of the spirit of man. So we are going to be learning a lot about what the first Adam had, and what we now can have again, though Jesus.
 
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nephilimiyr

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Do me a favour JohnR7, tell your pastor about what I'm talking about and ask him what he thinks because I would be interested to know. Your talk about the first and second Adam is a bit confusing. Also read your thread to see more of what I say about this "gap theory", you will in no doubt find it interesting.
 
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chickenman

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This of course would mean that Darwin was totally wrong, in that there would be no connection at all between any prehistoric life and life that began 12,000 years ago. One did not evolve into the other. Rather God destroyed the first and started all over again.

not just darwin, all those paleontologists and geologists would have to be wrong too

you only have to completely ignore three fields of science to accept the gap theory
 
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Micaiah

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Originally posted by nephilimiyr
First of a word to the moderators

Just because four letters together spell out a cuss word doesn't mean it should be asterisked out of the middle of a word that has nothing to do with that cuss word. Come on man! It's a Hebrew word!

lucaspa what makes you so sure I'm twisting the original Hebrew? Do you know what the original Hebrew say's? I don't use any preconcieved notions but try to understand what the original Hebrew is trying to convey.

I believe the opening passage in Genesis suggests that the universe could be very, very old. I believe that at some juncture in time that that first creation could've became corrupt where God may have past judgement upon it. God then recreated or reformed the earth on an actual six day time table. I believe the original Hebrew supports this.  

The "Let there be light" phrase does not appear to be a creative act when read from the original Hebrew. In the Hebrew all this say's is that the light was made to appear or made visible.

I believe JohnR7 does a good job explaining what I believe except I would say that if a humaniod creature was on the earth before Adam he did not only lack the intelligence of Adam but he lacked the image of God which I believe refers to our mastery of the spiritual and physical demensions of our maker. God did this so that we will be able to gain control and rule his new creation.

Genesis 1:26 say's, And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea etc. etc.

 Genesis 1:28 say's, And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and REPLENISH the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. If we had not the image of God we would not be able to do this but God gave us his image so that we would be in effect rulers over his new creation. 

lucaspa if this all wasn't a recreation of something that was here before why would God command us to replenish it? After all the meaning of replenish is to make full and complete again, to supply again.

 

Consider the following verses from Hebrews 11.

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

How do we explain how the universe sprang into existence at the word of God? According to Scripture, our understanding of this is based on faith.

Your interpretation is based on speculation. The views promoted are not supported by the plain teaching of these verses. The Hebrews passage reinforces the teaching that our universe was created spontaneously as a result of God's word. God did not form it from a previous creation.

The Hebrew word for beginning used in Genesis 1:1 is 'reshish' according to Strong's concordance. This word is also used to denote beginning in 17 other places:

Gen 10:10; 49:3
Deut 11:12; 21:17
Job 8:7; 42:12
Ps 111:10
Prov1:7; 8:22; 17;14
Eccl 7:8
Isa 46:10
Jer 26:1; 27:1; 28:1; 49:34
Mic 1:13

Study these verses. The meaning is clearly beginning in each.

In another thread I have given other reasons why this view doesn't match the clear teaching of Scripture. I'll give you the link if you're interested.
 
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Micaiah

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Originally posted by JohnR7
My pastor teaches the gap theory. I just asked him about it in light of the recent work that has been done in the area of DNA, esp. in the last 10 years. As far as I know, he is going to stay with the gap theory. That Adam was the first man to actually have a soul and be made in the image of God. Any bones they find, if they are monkey or human like, did not have the soul of a man, but were little more then the animals.

Actually, the first Adam pretty much had everything that the Second Adam had. He was made in perfection. He had the tree of life and would live forever. He was taught by God. Jesus came to restore everything that Adam had lost.

We have just compleated the third sermon on a series of the spirit of man. So we are going to be learning a lot about what the first Adam had, and what we now can have again, though Jesus.

I've heard this one somewhere before. Doesn't this interpretation also teach that since man was made alive after God breathed into Him, a child is not alive or fully human until it takes its first breath.
 
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This thread does make some sense, but remember, no matter what we think we know, we are to trust God at His Word, and the Bible is His Word.

Im sure this will be scoffed at, but thats ok, His Word also tells us that it will be scoffed at by the proud and those filled up with what they think they know.

I have learned the deep, inner connectiveness of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and how it all fits together in subtle ways. If I believe the NT, I must believe the OT.
 
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nephilimiyr

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Micaiah

How do we explain how the universe sprang into existence at the word of God? According to Scripture, our understanding of this is based on faith.

Your interpretation is based on speculation. The views promoted are not supported by the plain teaching of these verses. The Hebrews passage reinforces the teaching that our universe was created spontaneously as a result of God's word. God did not form it from a previous creation.

The Hebrew word for beginning used in Genesis 1:1 is 'reshish' according to Strong's concordance. This word is also used to denote beginning in 17 other places:

Gen 10:10; 49:3
Deut 11:12; 21:17
Job 8:7; 42:12
Ps 111:10
Prov1:7; 8:22; 17;14
Eccl 7:8
Isa 46:10
Jer 26:1; 27:1; 28:1; 49:34
Mic 1:13

Study these verses. The meaning is clearly beginning in each.

In another thread I have given other reasons why this view doesn't match the clear teaching of Scripture. I'll give you the link if you're interested.

Everything you wrote there Micaiah is from a misunderstanding of what I'm saying. I do believe God created everything spontaneously by his word. But this doesn't mean that this original event was anywhere close chronologically to the current world we live in today or even that time moves in the same way as it now does.

The Hebrews 11:3 passage is I think clear in saying that God didn't make something from nothing but rather from invisible things, there is a difference. This passage presents the idea both of creation through arranging materials, as well as the idea of a carpenter working with wood, as something quite easy, a simple task.

Because the interpretation I go by is different than yours means my interpretation is speculation? Perhaps the plain teachings you go by is the real speculation? You claim like you know for sure that what I'm going by is speculation and why is that? Perhaps because it goes against what you've been told or what your Strong's concordance tell's you? Well, we shall see.

The actual word penned by Moses in Genesis 1:1 is bereshyth (replace the y with an i, I did this so it wouldn't be asterisked out) different spelling than your Strong's word but I believe the same. Every scholar that has tried to translate the Hebrew has struggled with the first verse in Genesis. This is because of this word.

The noun reshyth always, always needs a modifier in order for it's actual meaning to be seen. The "be" in Genesis 1:1 is more often used to denote previously.

 For instance in Job 42:12 (one of the verses you posted) reads, So the lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning(reshyth). To read this as the actual beginning of Job makes no sense. It's odvious from the story that reshyth is refering to the beginning of the story covered in the book, prior to Satan testing him and not of his birth.

Now Proverbs 8:22, The lord possessed me in the beginning(reshyth) of his way, before his works of old. If you want to assume that reshyth here is talking about an actual beginning you must also assume that God has also had a beginning. Of course that wouldn't be true so we must assume that the beginning before his works means simply, before what can be seen in this age was created, not before God.

In Genesis 1:1 in the beginning can be seen to mean not in the beginning of all times or things but the start of mankind or the current frame of history. Thus the earth was molded and reformed at a specific time.

Yes I'm interested for those links Micaiah, please post them! Thank you

 
 
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Micaiah

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Concise Oxford Dictionary:
' beginning - the time or place at which anything begins'

There is no mention of a previous civilisation on earth in the first few verses of Genesis. That is speculation. We know that God spoke the heavens and earth into existence, and that on the first day earth was without form and void.
 
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Concise Oxford Dictionary:
' beginning - the time or place at which anything begins'

I hate to butt in, but I don't believe that an english dictionary's definition of an english word will have much to say about neph's idea, since his is based on a Hebrew word, and its definition.
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by Micaiah
I've heard this one somewhere before. Doesn't this interpretation also teach that since man was made alive after God breathed into Him, a child is not alive or fully human until it takes its first breath.

Yes, I have heard him say that. Then he acted like he was going to duck and run for cover, so he did not go into it to much. It must not be a very popular teaching. But he does not preach what people want to hear, he preaches what God gives to him.
 
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lucaspa

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Originally posted by JohnR7 Genesis 1:14-16
    And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: [15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. [16] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Moses is not talking about God making the Sun, Moon & Stars. He is just talking about them appearing in the firmament
.

Notice the bolded words of your quote from Genesis.  Seems you are going against the plain meaning here John.  Want to tell us how you justify this?

Sixteen Billion years of time could have passed before the Bible even begins. But for some reason, God could have decided to destroy everything and start all over again. Only He did not destroy the record of the life that was here, before recorded history began.

And where is that gap in the narrative?
 
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Micaiah

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Originally posted by nephilimiyr
Micaiah
In Genesis 1:1 in the beginning can be seen to mean not in the beginning of all times or things but the start of mankind or the current frame of history. Thus the earth was molded and reformed at a specific time.

Yes I'm interested for those links Micaiah, please post them! Thank you

 

Link as Requested

See post 45 and 78.

Also consider the passage in Exedus 20

8"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Scripture clearly asserts here that God made the heavens and earth in six days.
 
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Micaiah

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Originally posted by JohnR7
Yes, I have heard him say that. Then he acted like he was going to duck and run for cover, so he did not go into it to much. It must not be a very popular teaching. But he does not preach what people want to hear, he preaches what God gives to him.

Not sure what or who you refer to hear. Clarify if possible.

Is this what you also believe?
 
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