Are you depressed? What are you going to do about it?

GadFly · Apr 26, 2012

The first thing you should do if you are depressed and this depression interferes with your life, go to medical doctor, preferably a metal health professional.

That being said, the motivation for this thread is that several people are asking for help on the CF. Some have recently asked for help on the WP. It is time that Christianity put forth a Method to treat depression as well as other mental health illnesses. We have many people coming home from foreign wars who believe in God and who suffer from syndromes caused by trauma. These individuals deserve to know what the Bible and Christ says about depression.

To build your confidence in using the Scriptures as a safe tool for counselling, look in the yellow pages or Google "mental health services" in your community. You will find that most doctors and therapist have people trained, who can and do use the Bible, as a counselling tool. It is not true that mental health experts do not mix God and good mental health science to find guidance. It is only a myth that mental health and the Bible do not mix well. There are some psychiatrist that advertize that they do Christian counselling.

Now, if you have been depressed for some time, you may need medication from your doctor. If that is the case, God wants you to take the medication.Medication really takes the edge off your confused feelings that has caused you to misinterpret your world. Medication will not change how you think about things but it might give you the courage to begin to change how you think about things.

Remember, if you have been depressed for a while, you have learned to believe many false things about the world in which you have lived. Your going to have to unlearn many of those things you learned while you could not see things clearly as things really were. Medication helps you see better and Christian counselling guides you in a new and better direction. Do not be afraid to change your mind about many things. The Apostle Paul preached mental health when he instructed Christians to be transformed by renewing their minds (Rom:12:2

. This renewing is going to solve your search for peace and joy. It will happen and that is for sure.

Admit to yourself that due to your depression, you have many wrong beliefs. People might even think you are crazy. But you are not. You just need to see things as Christ saw thing. That is what Paul meant when he said, "let this mind be in you that was also in Christ." That will really change the way you think as Christ said "I am the Way."

You probably never thought of Christ as being a Way of doing things. In reality God is a process where Christ is a Method of doing things. God wants you to do things using Him as your Method of doing things. By practice you can master thinking like Christ thought. He is the Method you need to use. That is what all the Apostles meant by saying "let Christ be in you" and other such words of ownership. When you own the Method, you wil be just fine and very happy.

I am going to stop for now but I will be back real soon to continue this discussion. In the meantime see how man Bible verse you can find that tells you about mental health.

GadFly · Apr 27, 2012

One problem depressed people have is they often spend too much time thinking about their problems and therefore become more depressed. You can not stop thinking. That is something that just happens but you can control what you are thinking about. To control your thinking, it will help you to set a goal think how you can do something to help another person.

If you are depressed you probably don't feel like thinking about the problems other people are having. But "do unto others as you would have them to do to you" is a valuable mental health tip. If you spend just a few minutes each day of how to make somebody else happy and safe, you will be amazed how these thoughts will make you feel better.

It was a another mental health tip when Christ said for us not to just be "hearers of the word but to be doers of the word." Amazed again you will be when you phone someone to make them feel better or if you begin to act on your planned goal to help somebody else to feel better. Before you know it, by doing the Word, this will take you mind off yourself.

You really do need to make plans to be happy and you need to make plans for each day just like the Lord's Prayer says we should. Your plans to share and eat the daily bread is another mental health tip. Peace of mind is always better when shared with others. "Those who loved the Lord, spoke often to one another" was a very valuable mental health tip.

you see, the Bible is full of mental health tips. You can make it a goal, as you read the Bible, identify as many mental health tips as you can and then act upon these tips. Before you know it, the dark clods in your life will disappear.

(I'll be back to this thread later this evening. In the mean time drop us a message if you are feeling better. Just saying you feel better will help you to be less depressed.)

GadFly · May 20, 2012

Depression has been described in many ways but one thing that depression is for sure is a feeling. The fact is, you can change your feelings. You can think feelings away most of the time. Most feelings you have can be changed long before they require medication or a doctor to help you have control of your feelings. This is one reason that good self help books sell very well.

The very fact is that most people who experience feeling sad know more about how not to be depressed than they realize. Here is a tip that really can help. Pretend you are a strong ,mature Christian. Pretend you are trying to help another Christian to cheer up. Write a message to that sad person telling him/her how to escape that sad feeling. Write or speak to the depressed person how that person can feel better and become stronger. By the time you finish giving the imaginary help,by the time you have thought about all the good things you have told a depressed person to do, perhaps published on the CF, you will feel much better. You will be much better in shape to handle your own feelings.

GadFly · May 20, 2012

As a young man I was facing surgery and was depressed and feeling sorry for myself. The doctor had a talk with me and gave me advice that has saved me from my bad feelings many times.

"Son, doctors can help you but the person that can help you the most is you,yourself, you can do more for yourself than anybody else. The fact is that if you don't help yourself, nobody else can. Getting help always involves you doing your part."

You will find that you must be willing to eat correctly, exercise your body, and above all, you must use a dedicated logic from God to think correctly.

jacks · May 21, 2012

Thank you Gadfly, there are many helpful thoughts in this thread. I appreciate you taking the time to post.

God Bless.

GadFly · May 22, 2012

jacks said:
Thank you Gadfly, there are many helpful thoughts in this thread. I appreciate you taking the time to post.

God Bless.

Thanks to you brother Jacks. Your few words of encouragement really spurs me forward to come up with strategies to assist others to experience the the joy of the Lord, which is the joy of life. As a child it was difficult to experience the normal joys of living because of my circumstances into which I was born. As time passed, God was with me and showed me how to expel the darkness around me and replace it with the joy of the Lord. Every time somebody says "Thank you" these words drive me to do more to help spread joy to the world. Thank you Bro. Jacks.

By the way, every time you encourage someone else to be happy, you protect yourself from being sad. That is the psychological tip for today!

lucaspa · May 23, 2012

GadFly said:
The first thing you should do if you are depressed and this depression interferes with your life, go to medical doctor, preferably a metal health professional.

That being said, the motivation for this thread is that several people are asking for help on the CF. Some have recently asked for help on the WP. It is time that Christianity put forth a Method to treat depression as well as other mental health illnesses. We have many people coming home from foreign wars who believe in God and who suffer from syndromes caused by trauma. These individuals deserve to know what the Bible and Christ says about depression.

Wait a minute. You tell us -- in caps and bold -- that people who are depressed should go to a mental health professional. They have a method (or methods) of treating depression. But then you say "It is time that Christianity put forth a Method to treat depression as well as other mental health illnesses". Are you suggesting Christianity should have a different method than those used by the health care professionals? WHY? If the "Chrisitian" method is different, then would you still advise people suffering from depression go to a mental health expert?

To build your confidence in using the Scriptures as a safe tool for counselling, look in the yellow pages or Google "mental health services" in your community. You will find that most doctors and therapist have people trained, who can and do use the Bible, as a counselling tool. It is not true that mental health experts do not mix God and good mental health science to find guidance. It is only a myth that mental health and the Bible do not mix well. There are some psychiatrist that advertize that they do Christian counselling.

So let's get specific. Exactly what do you think the Bible says about counseling? In particular, what doe you think the Bible says about counselling for mental illness?]

Several times Jesus cured mental illness by casting out demons. Is that what you want us to do?

The Apostle Paul preached mental health when he instructed Christians to be transformed by renewing their minds (Rom:12:2. This renewing is going to solve your search for peace and joy. It will happen and that is for sure.

This is what Paul wrote:
"And so, dear brothers and sisters, [fn] I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrificethe kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him. Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect."

Paul is talking about worship. It is about following God's will. That does correspond with Wesleyan teaching that we grow with God and do what pleases God. But I am also confused. Up above you counselled people to go to mental health professionals and take medication if they need it. Both of those are "behavior and customs of this world", are they not? So it seems that you are telling people to ignore Paul. Can you clear that up, please?

Admit to yourself that due to your depression, you have many wrong beliefs. People might even think you are crazy. But you are not.

That is part of standard mental health treatment. My daughter works in the field, so I checked with her and she confirmed that this is a basic part of treament: admit the depression.

You just need to see things as Christ saw thing.

Is that all? Now you are deviating from what mental health professionals counsel.

That is what Paul meant when he said, "let this mind be in you that was also in Christ." That will really change the way you think as Christ said "I am the Way."

Have you heard of the Quadrilateral, Gadfly? The Wesleyan method for intepreting scripture forbids what you are doing here: taking snippets of verses out of context to make up a story you want to be true. In John 14:6 Jesus say "Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." In the context of John 14:1-11 Jesus is telling the disciples that he is God. He is not giving a prescription for conqueoring depression! I cannot communicate the anger and sadness I feel when I see such blatant disrespect for scripture. Please stop abusing scripture.

You probably never thought of Christ as being a Way of doing things. In reality God is a process where Christ is a Method of doing things. God wants you to do things using Him as your Method of doing things. By practice you can master thinking like Christ thought. He is the Method you need to use. That is what all the Apostles meant by saying "let Christ be in you" and other such words of ownership. When you own the Method, you wil be just fine and very happy.

Methodism emphasizes Christian living. So yes, all the Methodists here have heard that Christ is a way of living. It's not in the verse you quoted, but it is present elsewhere in the NT.

"Theology is not just about God. It is also about us. We live out of our understanding of who we are in relationship to God, to one another, and to the world. The Christian faith is grounded in the love and grace of God, experienced through Jesus Christ, and empowered by the Holy Spirit. The Christian life is our response to Gods love and grace.
The church calls our response to God Christian discipleship. Discipleship focuses on actively following in the footsteps of Jesus. As Christian disciples, we are not passive spectators but energetic participants in Gods activity in the world. Because of what God has done for us, we offer our lives back to God. We order our lives in ways that embody Christs ministry in our families, workplaces, communities, and the world."
A Theology of Discipleship - UMC.org

"Conversion
This process of salvation involves a change in us that we call conversion. Conversion is a turning around, leaving one orientation for another. It may be sudden and dramatic, or gradual and cumulative. But in any case, its a new beginning. Following Jesus words to Nicodemus, You must be born anew (John 3:7 RSV), we speak of this conversion as rebirth, new life in Christ, or regeneration.
Following Paul and Luther, John Wesley called this process justification. Justification is what happens when Christians abandon all those vain attempts to justify themselves before God, to be seen as just in Gods eyes through religious and moral practices. Its a time when Gods justifying grace is experienced and accepted, a time of pardon and forgiveness, of new peace and joy and love. Indeed, were justified by Gods grace through faith.
Justification is also a time of repentanceturning away from behaviors rooted in sin and toward actions that express Gods love. In this conversion we can expect to receive assurance of our present salvation through the Holy Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God (Romans 8:16)."
Our Wesleyan Theological Heritage - UMC.org

"Salvation is not a static, one-time event in our lives. It is the ongoing experience of Gods gracious presence transforming us into whom God intends us to be. John Wesley described this dimension of Gods grace as sanctification, or holiness. (Excerpt from Teachers as Spiritual Leaders and Theologians. Used by permission.)
Through Gods sanctifying grace, we grow and mature in our ability to live as Jesus lived." Same site but down on the page.

But, none of that guarantees happiness or is a guaranteed fight with depression. Jesus was often sad and depressed. He often despaired of ever getting his message across. In fact, John 14 shows a lot of his frustration and depression that the disciples just aren't getting it. You seem to be saying that simply living a Christian life is going to cure someone's depression. I find that dangerously bad theology and dangerously bad advice.

I have a question: did you know this was Methodist theology when you stated it? I wonder. You are addressing Methodists but say "You probably never thought of Christ as being a Way of doing things." We are Methodists. Of course we've thought of this! Duh!

lucaspa · May 23, 2012

GadFly said:
I am going to stop for now but I will be back real soon to continue this discussion. In the meantime see how man Bible verse you can find that tells you about mental health.

YOU go look up Bible verses. I'm sure that is going to help depressed people a lot. In the meantime, I'm going to help a support group for veterans with PTSD. I'm outta here.

GadFly · May 23, 2012

lucaspa said:
]Wait a minute. You tell us -- in caps and bold -- that people who are depressed should go to a mental health professional. They have a method (or methods) of treating depression. But then you say "It is time that Christianity put forth a Method to treat depression as well as other mental health illnesses". Are you suggesting Christianity should have a different method than those used by the health care professionals? WHY? If the "Chrisitian" method is different, then would you still advise people suffering from depression go to a mental health expert?

Since lucaspa says she is out of here, my response will be addressed to readers who can can profit by this discussion. If you check the yellow pages for a listing of mental health services, you will find that most mental health facilities provide a theorist who is trained in using the Bible upon which to base of their guidance and counseling. Do not feel threatened by the tone with which lucaspa berates using Christian counseling. Most psychological principles used in mental health counseling are well identifiable in the Bible. The bitter attitude people have towards Christian counseling is not due to any weaknesses found in the guidance given by the Bible but rather some other prejudiced feelings.

So let's get specific. Exactly what do you think the Bible says about counseling? In particular, what doe you think the Bible says about counselling for mental illness?]

The answer, everything! An informed and trained student of psychology can use the Bible as a mental health text book and many do. Check the yellow pages or Google mental health service in your local community.

Several times Jesus cured mental illness by casting out demons. Is that what you want us to do?

If that is what it takes!

This is what Paul wrote:
"And so, dear brothers and sisters, [fn]

I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrificethe kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him. Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect."

Paul is talking about worship. It is about following God's will. That does correspond with Wesleyan teaching that we grow with God and do what pleases God. But I am also confused. Up above you counselled people to go to mental health professionals and take medication if they need it. Both of those are "behavior and customs of this world", are they not? So it seems that you are telling people to ignore Paul. Can you clear that up, please?

Every doctor I have ever gone to has always told me that God is the real physician and does the healing. Paul believed in healing from God but was it not a fact he had his own personal physician who traveled the world with Paul? We sense that Lucaspa is out of sorts and is just having a bad hair day.

That is part of standard mental health treatment. My daughter works in the field, so I checked with her and she confirmed that this is a basic part of treament: admit the depression.

To admit is good.

Is that all? Now you are deviating from what mental health professionals counsel. Gadfly? The Wesleyan method for intepreting scripture forbids what you are doing here: taking snippets of verses out of context to make up a story you want to be true. In John 14:6 Jesus say "Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." In the context of John 14:1-11 Jesus is telling the disciples that he is God. He is not giving a prescription for conqueoring depression! I cannot communicate the anger and sadness I feel when I see such blatant disrespect for scripture. Please stop abusing scripture.

No we are not doing that. People can read the Bible and go to therapy and profit by both. However, they can not read the Scriptures doubting that what God says is good for them. Lucaspa, if you are listening, it is not wise to speak with anger. Remember the mouth speaks from the depths of you heart.

Have you heard of the Quadrilateral,

I have not read it in the Bible anywhere, how about all you readers out there? Have any of you read this in your Bible?

Methodism emphasizes Christian living. So yes, all the Methodists here have heard that Christ is a way of living. It's not in the verse you quoted, but it is present elsewhere in the NT.

Many of the Methodist we know have hardly read the Bible let alone the Book of Discipline. Most Methodist have never heard of the Quadrilateral.
.

"Theology is not just about God. It is also about us. We live out of our understanding of who we are in relationship to God, to one another, and to the world. The Christian faith is grounded in the love and grace of God, experienced through Jesus Christ, and empowered by the Holy Spirit. The Christian life is our response to Gods love and grace.
The church calls our response to God Christian discipleship. Discipleship focuses on actively following in the footsteps of Jesus. As Christian disciples, we are not passive spectators but energetic participants in Gods activity in the world. Because of what God has done for us, we offer our lives back to God. We order our lives in ways that embody Christs ministry in our families, workplaces, communities, and the world."
A Theology of Discipleship - UMC.org

The above SOUNDS PRETTY GOOD TO US!

"Conversion
This process of salvation involves a change in us that we call conversion. Conversion is a turning around, leaving one orientation for another. It may be sudden and dramatic, or gradual and cumulative. But in any case, its a new beginning. Following Jesus words to Nicodemus, You must be born anew (John 3:7 RSV), we speak of this conversion as rebirth, new life in Christ, or regeneration.

If Lucaspa thinks we Methodist disagree with the above, something of a spin is of foot.

Following Paul and Luther, John Wesley called this process justification. Justification is what happens when Christians abandon all those vain attempts to justify themselves before God, to be seen as just in Gods eyes through religious and moral practices. Its a time when Gods justifying grace is experienced and accepted, a time of pardon and forgiveness, of new peace and joy and love. Indeed, were justified by Gods grace through faith.
Justification is also a time of repentanceturning away from behaviors rooted in sin and toward actions that express Gods love. In this conversion we can expect to receive assurance of our present salvation through the Holy Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God (Romans 8:16)."
Our Wesleyan Theological Heritage - UMC.org

That is good preaching sister.

"Salvation is not a static, one-time event in our lives. It is the ongoing experience of Gods gracious presence transforming us into whom God intends us to be. John Wesley described this dimension of Gods grace as sanctification, or holiness. (Excerpt from Teachers as Spiritual Leaders and Theologians. Used by permission.)
Through Gods sanctifying grace, we grow and mature in our ability to live as Jesus lived." Same site but down on the page.

That is good preaching too.

But, none of that guarantees happiness or is a guaranteed fight with depression. Jesus was often sad and depressed. He often despaired of ever getting his message across. In fact, John 14 shows a lot of his frustration and depression that the disciples just aren't getting it. You seem to be saying that simply living a Christian life is going to cure someone's depression. I find that dangerously bad theology and dangerously bad advice.

Living a Christian life certainly does not hurt things. It appears that the above is some type of double talk.
I have a question: did you know this was Methodist theology when you stated it? I wonder. You are addressing Methodists but say "You probably never thought of Christ as being a Way of doing things." We are Methodists. Of course we've thought of this! Duh![

Surprise, to everybody that have not noticed.!The Gadfly is a Bible theologian. If Methodist want to follow me, fine! But I follow the Bible. The UMC is just one church on the WP. The UMC is not any better than all other churches and the fact is, we are commanded to follow Christ.

kelco · May 24, 2012

The only thing I really wanted was some prayers from my brothers and sisters in Christ....not a lecture on depression......I'm outta here too.

GadFly · May 24, 2012

kelco said:
The only thing I really wanted was some prayers from my brothers and sisters in Christ....not a lecture on depression......I'm outta here too.

Whatis this Kelco? There is no lecture here! Just trying to give a few words of encouragment, if yhat bothers you, this thread is not for you.

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Are you depressed? What are you going to do about it?

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