My New Interpretation of Revelation 17

Barraco

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Okay, I've challenged my old views, dug up new research, and I might be coming to a different conclusion about mystery Babylon and the beast she rides.

"Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, 'Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.' And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns." (Rev. 17:1-3)

I don't have the reference that I got part of my new interpretation from immediately available, but if you want it, I'll send it tomorrow when I get to it.

Anyway, the reference said that Mystery Babylon is not just one city, but has been many. She represents all the false religious orders whose popular influence with the masses enabled them to accrue wealth and prosperity from the kings who wanted the support of the masses. Now, while this seems far-fetched, it will be simple to bring down to earth.

Let's start with mystery religions. As far back as Nimrod and the Sumerian occult, astronomers have been predicting signs in the heavens, such as lunar eclipses and solar eclipses. However, instead of making that information public, they kept it a secret. So, if a priest wanted someone's daughter to satisfy his sexual desires with or to have treasures laid at his door, he would warn the people that the gods would make the skies dark on a certain day unless said request was fulfilled. When the sign appeared to be true, the masses feared that the gods would smite them and yielded to the priests' demands. The kings, seeing this influence, wanted the allegiance of the masses to support their imperial campaigns.

You really don't think the Egyptians build the pyramids because it was agriculturally beneficial, do you? And should we think that the Egyptians were foolish enough to think that their kings were gods because they shot fireballs out of their fingers? This mystery Babylon used mystery religions to dupe the masses into following false religions, giving up their liberties, performing atrocious acts to other people, and treating kings as if they were the embodiment of the gods themselves.

To support this initial claim, we can see that Emperor Domitian campaigned with a priest of the imperial occult on his left and right. This imperial cult was also holding tribunes to the worship of Caesar that led to the deaths of many Christians. This is likely the inspiration behind John receiving the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

If we track the Biblical progression of Mystery Babylon, we can find her at every major imperial metropolitan in history. She influenced the Egyptians to oppress the Israelites, caused the Assyrians to sacrifice their firstborns into the fires for Marduk, led the Babylonians to blaspheme the true LORD God, conspired against the Jews to the Persians, Hellenized the Greek world, and eventually led the Romans to persecute the Christians. This leads me to the beast of Revelation 17.

This beast is not the same beast as mentioned in Revelation 13. The beast in Revelation 13 did indeed have seven heads and ten horns, but, unlike the beast of Revelation 17, it also had crowns on each of its horns. The beast of Revelation 17 is also one that did not exist when John received the vision. It says that the beast has seven heads, being seven mountains and seven kings. This would easily lead anyone to assume that the woman that rides the beast is Rome. At John's time, she was. But before John's time, Mystery Babylon had rode the Egyptian Empire, the Assyrian Empire, the Babylonian Empire, the Persian Empire, and the Grecian Empire. That makes up the five that had fallen. Rome was the head that 'is.' There was to be another empire after the Roman Empire that would be influenced by the occult. The beast itself, however, is an eighth empire, which is formed when the ten kingdoms receive power and give that power over to it.

The seventh empire is the United Nations, whose headquarters are found in New York City, home of the World Trade Center. This empire was formed after World War II, as a replacement of the League of Nations. Eventually, this empire was hijacked by Central Banks that funded sides of the wars that would follow.

Far-fetched? Let me explain:

Since science has been elevated to such great heights in the academic, economic, political, environmental, and social realm, it has made it virtually impossible for anything to remain a secret. Well, almost anything. There is the stock market; that force of nature that is as unpredictable as the weather and cosmos. Wall Street Insiders, however, are the occultists of this new elite and the banks are their temples. Before the WTC was bombed on 9/11, certain individuals pulled out their investments and relocated them. Before the recession of 2008, the same thing happened. Before the explosion of Deepwater Horizon oil rig owned by BP, the same thing happened. In fact, Haliburton purchased the company that cleaned up the oil leak. The whole stock market reacts to every major event that happens. The place they gather to place their bets on the gods? Wall Street.

Because of this shift in power from kings to banks, the poor have been exploited by federal organizations that answer to nobody and jack up interest rates to sap the poor and middle class. The resolution to these atrocities? War. Everybody knows that 9/11 was an inside job that was hidden by a false flag in effort to destroy traces of the 2.3 trillion dollars that had been reported missing the day before (and the records stored in the area of the Pentagon that was destroyed in the explosion.) The banks got their hands into the Middle East while covering up a major movement of money to an undisclosed location.

However, the beast that was, is not, and will rise is the empire that will rise once Wall Street falls at New York City's destruction. I don't know when or how this would happen, but Revelation 17 and 18 show that it happens suddenly and violently.

I did notice that 5 megaton nuclear weapon disappeared in a busy harbor in Germany today. I don't know how a nuke that was under UN surveillance could have 'disappeared' other than them 'letting' it disappear.

If all this is true, then people need to get out of New York City. Can others test this interpretation with sound eschatology and research to see if it applies? I don't like making huge claims like this. I don't think this event would be the end either. As I said, I believe another empire (IMO, the New World Order) will arise from this.

Let me know what you think. I can handle sharp criticism, but please try and not be rude. I am a brother in Christ, not a lunatic looking for a thrill. Thanks.
 

tranquil

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I'll give a lengthier response later as there is a lot to respond to here, but just a few quick thoughts now.

I think you are spot on.

The seventh empire is the United Nations, whose headquarters are found in New York City, home of the World Trade Center. This empire was formed after World War II, as a replacement of the League of Nations. Eventually, this empire was hijacked by Central Banks that funded sides of the wars that would follow.
Jeremiah 29:10

For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.



History of the United Nations
In 1945, representatives of 50 countries met in San Francisco at the United Nations Conference on International Organization to draw up the United Nations Charter. Those delegates deliberated on the basis of proposals worked out by the representatives of China, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom and the United States at Dumbarton Oaks, United States in August-October 1944. The Charter was signed on 26 June 1945 by the representatives of the 50 countries. Poland, which was not represented at the Conference, signed it later and became one of the original 51 Member States.
The United Nations officially came into existence on 24 October 1945, when the Charter had been ratified by China, France, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, the United States and by a majority of other signatories. United Nations Day is celebrated on 24 October each year.
Add 70 years to Mystery Babylon, United Nations, from June through October 1945 and you get June through October 2015. This is consistent with my projections that Mystery Babylon is destroyed Sept. 22 2015, the 2300th day from 6-10-09 covenant (of which 12-21-12 is the 1290th day, the abomination of desolation). http://www.christianforums.com/t7634865/

New York city is a ritual destruction of Babylon that the antichrist destroys in imitation of Jesus destroying Babylon. The AC will also destroy the Vatican/ Catholic church at the end of 2012. I assumed that the destruction of the Vatican would provide the excuse for a reformed Catholicism to set up HQ in Jerusalem. Now I think that the destruction of NYC and the UN HQ is the excuse for the UN setting up shop in Jerusalem.
 
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Stan Tei

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My approach to Revelation 17 came by way of Revelation 13.

The book of Revelation is written in a parallel chiastic
pattern: The two chapters; Revelation 13 and 17 near
the center, corresponding to this pattern, reveal seven
parallel chiastic links. This passage is set within a
parallel structure that explains more specific details
about the beast.

1. Seven heads and ten horns
2. Heads with names on which blasphemy is written.
3. All the world shall wonder
4. Whose names are not written in the Book of Life
5. Peoples, multitudes, nations, tongues, kindreds
6. Wisdom (666 and the Seven Mountains)
7. Power given to him to reign over the kings of the earth

Concerning the number 666, most people buy into what they've heard
before concerning it, but really do not know what it consists of, nor that
their own belief does not fit "ALL" that the prophecy says concerning that
number.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had
the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number
of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six
hundred threescore and six.

Look carefully at these elements:
the number of his name
count the number
the number of the beast
the number of a man

Further study into the prophecies of Revelation, reveals even more:
Rev 13:1 seven heads ...upon his heads the name of blasphemy
Rev 17:3 seven heads ...full of names of blasphemy

And:
The seven heads are seven mountains.

Now for the past 1,000 years, there has been the charge, that the
papacy is the beast of Revelation. I will not here divulge all that pertains
to this, as it is knowledge that is rampant on the 'net, let anyone who
wants to know go and see for themselves.

Rev 13:18 is directly linked to Rev 17:9, 10 by the words:
"Here is wisdom." and "And here is the mind which hath wisdom."

The elements of the prophecy in both passages are interconnected.
Now the Beast is the papacy and the heads of the Beast would then be the
popes. The names of blasphemy are connected to the heads in Rev 13:1
as quoted above. Blasphemy is defined by 1: claiming to be God and 2:
claiming to have the power to forgive sins. This is the Biblical definition as
the Jews had accused the Messiah of blasphemy on both of these
accounts. The popes have many times claimed to be "God on earth" and
they all claim to have the power to forgive sins.

Now take the phrases "the number of his name" and "count the number"
and being connected to the heads. Each pope has a number (NUMBER) on
their names.

Does the number 666 have anything to do with the numbers of their
names? The short answer is "YES!" It is only a matter of having a look at
the papal record and see if the number is there.

Another prophetic element comes into play: Both Rev 13:10 and Rev 17:8
and history have a time-frame reference of 1798. For at that time
Napoleon sent his general Berthier into Rome and took Pope Pius VI
captive.

The papal record displays seven names of popes since 1798. These are
Pius, Leo, Gregory, Benedict, John, Paul and John Paul.
The number of popes named Pius are 12. This number all added up
equals 78. For Leo, there were 13, that adds up to 91. For Gregory there
were 16 which adds up to 136. For Benedict (barring antipopes) there
were 14, which adds up to 105. and for John, (also barring antipopes and
a counting error in the papal record) there were 21, adding up to 231.
And then there was Paul, there were 6, which adds up to 21, and finally
John Paul, which were two, that gives us a count of 3 more.

The cumulative total thus far is 665. Do the math and see the papal
record for yourselves. All these figures are facts that can be verified by
anyone.

Now there remains another string of elements as outlined in Rev 17:10
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not
yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."
Do these seven papal names fit this outline? "YES!"

The five fallen are Pius, Leo, Gregory, Benedict, and John. Paul would be
the sixth, and the seventh that is "not yet come" was John Paul, whose
choice for his name was a new one that followed Pope Paul VI, and thus
had "not yet come".

And the tenure as held by each of these names also displays that the
years of the two popes John Paul I & II, was 26½ years. whereas the
ohers range from 67 years to over 100 each. This would also fit the "short
space"

Whatever you choose to believe, be sure that EVERY element of
the prophecy must be considered and that it must fit. I
demonstrated here that not only does it all fit, but that the long
string of the elements of the prophecy fits and aligns with the
long string of the elements of history. NO OTHER INTERPRETATION
DOES THIS!!!

Neither is there any other interpretation concerning the number 666 that
crosses over the chiastic pattern of the book of Revelation to merge all of
the elements into one straight and simple pattern. I compare it to the two
strands of DNA, one being history and the other, the prophecy. As you all
know, DNA is a twin strand of identical elements.

The next pope, also predicted by St. Malachy is termed "the terrible judge"
and is the last pope in his list. So this interpretation matches that which
the Catholics also believe and fear.
 
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Bible2

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Barraco said in post #1:

She represents all the false religious orders . . .

Rev's "Babylon" (Rev. chs. 17-18) represents not only all of mankind's corrupt religious systems (Rev. 18:24), but also all of its corrupt political (Rev. 17:18) & economic (Rev. 18:11) systems, throughout the earth (Rev. 18:3) & throughout history (Rev. 17:9-10). The 10 kings of the Antichrist's (the AC's) empire will destroy with fire all that "Babylon" represents (Rev. 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the earth (Rev. 16:19), possibly with nukes (& possibly with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number 6 in English gematria), at the time of the 7th vial (Rev. 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Rev. 16:17) of the future trib of Rev. chs. 6-18, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:2-20:6, Mt. 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isa. 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

Near the very end of the coming trib, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the AC & his 10 kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil god YHWH is about to begin [Rev. 16:14, 19:19], a battle which we'll win, and so we'll be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, & return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma. So let us now completely destroy this awful prison cell, this foul planet, & let us, as it were, completely burn up all the gewgaws which we've hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all our great cities, all our magnificent systems. Let us break every chain of attachment to this vile material realm, that we might more freely ascend back into our rightful place in the blessed Pleroma".

Of course this will be a total lie. For at his 2nd coming, Jesus (who is YHWH: Jn. 10:30, Zech. 14:3-4) will completely defeat the armies of the world, arrayed against YHWH (Rev. 16:14, 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the bottomless pit during the subsequent millennium (Rev. 20:1-6). And Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth & make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezek. 36:35, Isa. 51:3). And after the millennium & subsequent events are over (Rev. 20:7-15), God will create a new heaven (a new 1st heaven: a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) & a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Rev. 21:1). And then God will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with saved humanity on the new earth (Rev. 21:2-4).

This leads me to the beast of Revelation 17.

This beast is not the same beast as mentioned in Revelation 13. The beast in Revelation 13 did indeed have seven heads and ten horns, but, unlike the beast of Revelation 17, it also had crowns on each of its horns.

Actually, they're the same beast; nothing in Rev. 17 contradicts that it has crowns on each of its horns, which represent kings (Rev. 17:12). The 7 heads of the beast in its empire aspect (Rev. 13:1, 17:3) represent 7 empires (Rev. 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, & (possibly) Islam. The first 5 had fallen by the time of John in the 1st century AD: "five are fallen" (Rev. 17:10, 1:1b-2). The 6th (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Rev. 17:10). The 7th (possibly Islam) had not come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Rev. 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the AC) (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, 8th head (Rev. 17:11), which will be a revival of 1 of the 5 empires which had fallen by the time of John (Rev. 17:8,10-11). It could be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The AC may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system that Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Dan. 3, Rev. 13:15).

And the AC could make his world capital in the rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq), & build a main temple to himself (& Lucifer/Satan) there. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zech. 5:8,11), & the AC is called "that Wicked" (2 Thes. 2:8). He may also claim to be Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Gen. 10:8-10), & Hammurabi, & Asoka, et al. For the AC may claim he's had many different "past lives" as different human rulers.
 
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Bible2

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Barraco said in post #1:

However, the beast that was, is not, and will rise is the empire that will rise once Wall Street falls at New York City's destruction. I don't know when or how this would happen, but Revelation 17 and 18 show that it happens suddenly and violently.

While the corrupt aspects of Wall Street & the rest of New York City (& of other cities) are included in what the symbolic harlot "Babylon" (Rev. chs. 17-18) represents, she represents much more than just the corrupt aspects of New York City (NYC). For NYC just by itself doesn't reign over the kings of the earth (Rev. 17:18). Nor is NYC the only place on the earth where people buy merchandise (Rev. 18:11). Nor is NYC the place where all martyrs have been killed (Rev. 18:24). Nor has NYC just by itself corrupted the entire world (Rev. 18:3). Nor has NYC been continuously supported by the empires of fallen man throughout history (Rev. 17:7,9-10).

Nonetheless, the corrupt world-system represented by Rev.'s "Babylon" may currently be headquartered in NYC, as well as in Washington, D.C. (WDC), insofar as WDC may currently be "the crowning city" (cf. Isa. 23:8) of mankind's corrupt politics, the 1st leg of "Babylon" (Rev. 17:18), & NYC may currently be "the crowning city" of mankind's corrupt economics, the 2nd leg of "Babylon" (Rev. 18:11). "The crowning city" of mankind's corrupt religions, the 3rd leg of "Babylon" (Rev. 18:24), may currently be Jerusalem, as it was back in the 1st century AD (Mt. 23:35-38). Ultimately, all 3 legs of "Babylon" could become headquartered in the literal rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq), which the Antichrist (the AC) could make the capital of the world during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Rev. 13:5-18) (see the "revival" part of the prior post).

Tyre was "the crowning city" of mankind's corrupt economics at 1 point in ancient times (Isa. 23:8). God allowed the destruction of ancient Tyre as a lesson, an example, "to stain the pride of all glory, and to bring into contempt all the honourable of the earth" (Isa. 23:9). In the same way, would God allow the future destruction of WDC & NYC by terrorist nuclear bombs, as a lesson, an example, "to stain the pride of all glory, and to bring into contempt all the honourable of the earth"?

Also, the Bible teaches that, without repentance, what's sown is reaped (Gal. 6:7), & 2 nuclear bombs (developed in the "Manhattan" Project) were sown by the U.S. against 2 major cities in Japan (Hiroshima & Nagasaki) in order to terrorize Japan into surrender during World War II. So could the U.S. at some point in the future reap 2 terrorist nuclear bombs against 2 of its own major cities (including Manhattan)? Could the U.S. avoid this fate by publicly repenting before God & asking him & Japan for forgiveness for the U.S. intentionally targeting & murdering 150,000 innocent civilian men, women, & children living in Hiroshima & Nagasaki? Could the 9/11 terrorists being allowed by God to intentionally target & murder 3,000 innocent civilian men, women, & children in NYC's Twin Towers & elsewhere in the U.S. have been just a warning to the U.S., a mere shot across its bow, to try to get the U.S. to repent for what it did to the 2 cities of Hiroshima & Nagasaki? But could the U.S. continue to refuse to repent for its nuclear terrorism against Japan, leaving the way open for nuclear terrorism against the U.S.?

Also, a certain "restrainer" must be taken out of the way before the AC can come into worldwide power (2 Thes. 2:6-9, Rev. 13:4-18). This restrainer could be a powerful angel like the 1 who'll restrain Satan at Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 20:1-3). The powerful angel restraining the AC could be Michael the archangel, the angelic prince over Israel (Dan. 12:1, 10:21,13). Michael could also currently be the angelic prince over the U.S., making sure it supports Israel. Part of Michael's being taken out of the way, just enough so as to allow the AC to come into worldwide power, could be God removing Michael's protection of the U.S., just enough to allow both WDC & NYC to be nuked by terrorists. This could weaken the U.S. not only by the destruction of its political & financial capitals, but also by the subsequent run on the U.S. dollar which could occur, rendering the U.S. dollar close to worthless in world markets. The U.S. government could then finally go bankrupt, unable to finance any longer its huge debt, economy, & military. Its days as a superpower will be over, opening the way for the AC to come into worldwide power (Rev. 13:4-18).
 
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InSpiritInTruth

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Anyway, the reference said that Mystery Babylon is not just one city, but has been many. She represents all the false religious orders whose popular influence with the masses enabled them to accrue wealth and prosperity from the kings who wanted the support of the masses. Now, while this seems far-fetched, it will be simple to bring down to earth.

If we track the Biblical progression of Mystery Babylon, we can find her at every major imperial metropolitan in history. She influenced the Egyptians to oppress the Israelites, caused the Assyrians to sacrifice their firstborns into the fires for Marduk, led the Babylonians to blaspheme the true LORD God, conspired against the Jews to the Persians, Hellenized the Greek world, and eventually led the Romans to persecute the Christians.

The seventh empire is the United Nations, whose headquarters are found in New York City, home of the World Trade Center. This empire was formed after World War II, as a replacement of the League of Nations. Eventually, this empire was hijacked by Central Banks that funded sides of the wars that would follow.

Thanks.

Hi Barraco, seems to me you are now movin in the right direction from where you were before, that is until you get to 7th head. You say you believe the 7th head (7th kingdom or Empire) is the United Nations. Here's the problem I have with that theory.

I believe the 7th head is the head that was wounded to death, whose head wound was to be healed.

Revelation 13:3
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.


Revelation 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

It is written men are like beasts, which is the firstborn nature in man, which are those who are born of the flesh, which also are carnally minded like natural brute beasts, as Peter said.

God declared the nation of Israel to be his firstborn son.

The 7 heads were 7 mountains on which the woman sat, which as the scripture show 7 mountains are 7 Kings (or Kingdom periods). During Johns time 5 had already fallen, and one is, and the other is yet to come. And I agree with what you have above in the 6, with the Roman Empire being the 6th.

But John was told in Revelation 17:11 that the beast that was, and is not, even he is the 8th, and is of the 7, and goeth into perdition.

This prophecy does not fit with the United Nations.(was, is not, and alive again)

But ask yourself this. What Nation was of (or a part of) the first 6 kingdoms? What people were under the bondage of the first 6 kingdoms? What Nation was cut off by the sword (head wound by a sword)by the sword of the Spirit of the Lord, and ceased to be a Nation until they were once again resurrected (came out of the pit)as a Nation in 1948, which was also given as a sign to the Nations? What people recieved a head wound?(knowledge of God removed from head) which is that spiritual blindness in part that happened to Israel as Paul said.

The only Nation that fits all the prophecy and scriptures is Israel, the firstbon son.
 
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SeraphimsCherub

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Great job my brother! WW2 was specifically designed to bring about the United Nations,and WW3 is specially designed to bring in Lucifer's{Satan} NEW WORLD ORDER. Could be a serious false flag at the NATO Summit. Just happens to be during the time that a eclipse will come right through the heart of America. Russian troops will be at "the Denver airport training for "anti-terrorist drills". Just check it out on you tube. It's crazy...i can't even think straight because of the possibility of all this.
 
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florida2

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I did notice that 5 megaton nuclear weapon disappeared in a busy harbor in Germany today. I don't know how a nuke that was under UN surveillance could have 'disappeared' other than them 'letting' it disappear.

Really? Link?

A quick google doesn't turn up anything.
 
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Achilles6129

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Let me know what you think. I can handle sharp criticism, but please try and not be rude. I am a brother in Christ, not a lunatic looking for a thrill. Thanks.

In my view, you're absolutely correct. New York City houses the United Nations (which will be the seat of the beast) and is absolutely representative of Babylon (the United States, in my opinion, also being Babylon). I think your view is totally correct.
 
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Bible2

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Stan Tei said in post #4:

6. Wisdom (666 and the Seven Mountains)

Re: "Wisdom", the "wisdom" given in Rev. 13:18 is that 666 is the number of the Antichrist's (the AC's, the individual-man aspect of the beast's) name (Rev. 13:17c-18). Also, the "understanding" referred to in Rev. 13:18 as being required to properly "count", to add up, the number of his name, is having an understanding of gematria, which scripture itself employs with the 3 Greek letters at the very end of Rev. 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus) (the TR), & which scriptural gematria, sadly, many Christians today are either completely unaware of, or, even if they know about it, they simply refuse to employ it, mistakenly thinking that it's occult numerology/divination.

6. Wisdom (666 and the Seven Mountains)

Re: "666", the "666" in Rev. 13:17c-18 refers to the number six hundred & sixty-six, the "number of the name" of the individual "man" who's the AC. The number of a name is determined by employing the ancient method of gematria, by which numerical values are assigned to the letters of any alphabet as follows: the 1st 9 letters are 1 through 9, the next 9 letters are 10 through 90 (counting by tens), & the rest of the letters are 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet. In Rev. 13:18, the "counting", the adding up, of the gematrial number of the AC's name should be done in the same way the gematrial numerical values of the 3 Greek letters (Chi, Xi, & Stigma) at the end of Rev. 13:18 (TR) are added up to arrive at the number six hundred & sixty-six. The numerical values of the letters of the ancient Greek alphabet (including the 3 obsolete letters of Stigma, Qoppa, & Sampi) were as follows:

Alpha = 1
Beta = 2
Gamma = 3
Delta = 4
Epsilon = 5
(Stigma = 6)
Zeta = 7
Eta = 8
Theta = 9
Iota = 10
Kappa = 20
Lambda = 30
Mu = 40
Nu = 50
Xi = 60
Omikron = 70
Pi = 80
(Qoppa = 90)
Rho = 100
Sigma = 200
Tau = 300
Upsilon = 400
Phi = 500
Chi = 600
Psi = 700
Omega = 800
(Sampi = 900)

Just as the numerical values of Chi, Xi, & Stigma at the end of Rev. 13:18 (TR) add up to 666, so the numerical values of the letters in the AC's name will add up to 666 (Rev. 13:17c-18). John used the Greek alphabet only because it was the most common 1 used by believers when Rev. was written. Today, the English alphabet is the most common 1 used by believers, insofar as English is the current lingua franca of the world. So the AC's name will most likely add up to 666 in the English alphabet.
 
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Bible2

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Stan Tei said in post #4:

6. Wisdom (666 and the Seven Mountains)

Re: "the Seven Mountains", Rev. 17:9's seven mountains, which support the symbolic harlot Babylon, can have a dual significance. 1st, they can be the 7 hills of Rome, for at the time of John the apostle in the 1st century AD the Roman Empire was the chief support for what the harlot Babylon represents: all of mankind's corrupt political (Rev. 17:18), economic (Rev. 18:11), & religious (Rev. 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Rev. 18:3) & throughout history (Rev. 17:9-10). At the same time, the 7 mountains can represent 7 empires (Rev. 17:10), for an empire can be referred to symbolically as a mountain (Jer. 51:24-25, Dan. 2:35b,44), & what the harlot Babylon represents has been supported by 7 empires (See the "7 empires" part of post #5). Also, Rev. 17:10's 7 "kings" can refer to 7 empires, just as the 4 "kings" in Dan. 7:17 refer to 4 empires, Dan. 7:23 referring to the 4th (i.e. the Roman Empire).

Now the Beast is the papacy . . .

It isn't, for the papacy hasn't fulfilled the detailed references to the beast (i.e. the individual-man aspect of the beast, the Antichrist, the AC) in Rev. 13:4-18, 16:2-16, 19:19-21. Also, the papacy hasn't fulfilled other detailed AC scriptures (e.g. 2 Thes. 2:3-9, Dan. 11:31,36, Mt. 24:15). The detailed prophecies re: the AC haven't yet been fulfilled.

Also, the AC, during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Rev. 13:5-18), won't support Catholicism (in its past & current form), insofar as Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Christ, whereas the AC will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 Jn. 2:22). And Catholicism affirms that Jesus is the Son of God, whereas the AC will deny that Jesus is the Son of God (1 Jn. 2:22b). And Catholicism affirms that Christ is in the flesh, whereas the AC (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 Jn. 1:7). And Catholicism affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, whereas the AC (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Rev. 13:6, Dan. 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that the only man who's God is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whereas the AC will say he (the AC) is God (2 Thes. 2:4, Dan. 11:36). And Catholicism affirms that Lucifer (Satan) is evil, whereas the AC will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon) (Rev. 13:4, 12:9). So the AC's religion during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Catholicism in its past & current form, but a blend of Luciferianism & Gnosticism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the AC power over all nations (Rev. 13:4-7), the AC, & the man who'll be his False Prophet (Rev. 19:20) (who could be a future, apostate pope), could at 1st pretend to wholly support Catholicism in its current form (as well as Christianity generally, & also Islam), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.
 
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Stan Tei

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The Antichrist denies that Jesus is the Christ, by the false claim that he is the Christ.
It has been a long-held fear that the Catholics believe that the Antichrist will come and take over the papacy. By doing so, he will not have changed their belief that the true Messiah is the Christ, but by usurping that role himself, he is denying the true Son of God.
Yes, this is future, but not that far away.

In speaking of the seven heads/mountains of Rev 17, five have fallen... this cannot refer to literal hills, or to kingdoms. These are all successive heads of one kingdom, that is: of the beast kingdom.

There is no symbolic beast or kingdom on earth or in history that has had empires or kingdoms as its heads. Heads are heads, being the kings or leaders of the kingdoms they represent. In the case of Rev 17, all seven heads (plus the eighth) are representative leaders of the same beast kingdom. They are stated to be the seven heads of the beast. The beast represents a kingdom. The heads are that kingdom's leaders (popes).
 
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Markusanthem

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Compare these two:

Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

Isaiah 47:7 You said, ‘I will continue forever—
the eternal queen!’
But you did not consider these things
or reflect on what might happen.
8 “Now then, listen, you wanton creature,
lounging in your security
and saying to yourself,
‘I am, and there is none besides me.
I will never be a widow
or suffer the loss of children.’
9 Both of these will overtake you
in a moment, on a single day:
loss of children and widowhood


Compare these two:

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.


Isaiah 47:3“Sit in silence, go into darkness, Daughter of the Babylonians;no more will you be called
queen of kingdoms.
6 I was angry with my people
and desecrated my inheritance; I gave them into your hand,and you showed them no mercy.Even on the aged you laid a very heavy yoke.



Compare these two:

Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.


Isaiah 47:9 Both of these will overtake you
in a moment, on a single day:
loss of children and widowhood.
They will come upon you in full measure,
in spite of your many sorceries
and all your potent spells.
10 You have trusted in your wickedness
and have said, ‘No one sees me.’
Your wisdom and knowledge mislead you
when you say to yourself,
‘I am, and there is none besides me.’
11 Disaster will come upon you,
and you will not know how to conjure it away.
A calamity will fall upon you
that you cannot ward off with a ransom;
a catastrophe you cannot foresee
will suddenly come upon you.
12 “Keep on, then, with your magic spells
and with your many sorceries,
which you have labored at since childhood.
Perhaps you will succeed,
perhaps you will cause terror.
13 All the counsel you have received has only worn you out!
Let your astrologers come forward,
those stargazers who make predictions month by month,
let them save you from what is coming upon you.
14 Surely they are like stubble;
the fire will burn them up.
They cannot even save themselves
from the power of the flame.
Here are no coals to warm anyone;
here is no fire to sit by.
15 That is all they can do for you—
these you have labored with
and trafficked with since childhood.
Each of them goes on in his error;
there is not one that can save you.




Compare these two:

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.



Zech 2:6 “Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north,” declares the Lord, “for I have scattered you to the four winds of heaven,” declares the Lord.
7 “Come, O Zion! Escape, you who live in the Daughter of Babylon!” 8 For this is what the Lord Almighty says: “After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you—for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye— 9 I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me.




Based on these scriptures, it looks to me like Mystery Babylon is Rome ("the daughter of Babylon" that God used to destroy Israel - Isaiah 47:6 & Revelation 18:6) and it's going to be nuked.
The "great city that rules over the kings of the earth" is Rome, even to this day.

If a nation pulls something, Rome has something to say about it.
 
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Markusanthem

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Rev 13:2 ...and the dragon (Rome) gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority (the papacy).

That's the beast that is given power, not mystery babylon (who rides the beast and is destroyed by the beast).

Rev 17:3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.


Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The beast is a final kingdom. Mystery babylon is something that thinks it controls the beast or influences the beast which is why it is described as sitting on or riding the beast.
 
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zeke37

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Rev 13:2 ...and the dragon (Rome) gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority (the papacy).
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
The Antichrist denies that Jesus is the Christ, by the false claim that he is the Christ.
absolutely correct

It has been a long-held fear that the Catholics believe that the Antichrist will come and take over the papacy. By doing so, he will not have changed their belief that the true Messiah is the Christ, but by usurping that role himself, he is denying the true Son of God.
Yes, this is future, but not that far away.
it doesn't have to be by way of a pope though.
According to Rev12, Satan himself, the actual supernatural fallen angel,
is cast down to earth for a short time.

beginning with his entrance with his angels,
he himself pretends to be Christ,
and fools the world, saving a broken multi-headed world system,
and seducing most Christians along the way

whether he takes over the papacy is irrelevant.
 
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Stan Tei

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7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
absolutely correct


it doesn't have to be by way of a pope though.
According to Rev12, Satan himself, the actual supernatural fallen angel,
is cast down to earth for a short time.

beginning with his entrance with his angels,
he himself pretends to be Christ,
and fools the world, saving a broken multi-headed world system,
and seducing most Christians along the way

whether he takes over the papacy is irrelevant.

Agreed 3X And as for all future speculation, I expect that the unrolling of the scroll in the very near future will tell it all.
 
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That's the beast that is given power, not mystery babylon (who rides the beast and is destroyed by the beast).

Rev 17:3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.


Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The beast is a final kingdom. Mystery babylon is something that thinks it controls the beast or influences the beast which is why it is described as sitting on or riding the beast.

Sounds like New York City to me. Home of the One World Trade Center, U.N. Headquarters, and Wall St. When the U.N. is done away with, then I think the beast that the harlot rides on will come about with its ten kings.
 
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