Eternal Suffering or Annihilation?

<< John 10:8 >>

New International Version (©1984)
All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.New Living Translation (©2007)
All who came before me were thieves and robbers. But the true sheep did not listen to them.
English Standard Version (©2001)
All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
International Standard Version (©2008)
All who came before me are thieves and bandits, but the sheep didn't listen to them.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
“And all who had come were thieves and robbers, but the flock did not hear them.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
All who came before I did were thieves or robbers. However, the sheep didn't respond to them.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
American King James Version
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
American Standard Version
All that came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Douay-Rheims Bible
All others, as many as have come, are thieves and robbers: and the sheep heard them not.
Darby Bible Translation
All whoever came before me are thieves and robbers; but the sheep did not hear them.
English Revised Version
All that came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Webster's Bible Translation
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Weymouth New Testament
All who have come before me are thieves and robbers; but the sheep would not listen to them.
World English Bible
All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep didn't listen to them.
Young's Literal Translation
all, as many as came before me, are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them;

good day.

Sadalmelik said:

there was only one who was sinless, His name was Jesus, NOT moses. sin is sin, im sorry that you dont understand this, and think that moses was perfect....he was not.

Click to expand...

You didn't answer the perfectly clear question. And I don't expect that you will.

Soulgazer said:

<< John 10:8 >>

New International Version (©1984)
All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.New Living Translation (©2007)
All who came before me were thieves and robbers. But the true sheep did not listen to them.
English Standard Version (©2001)
All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
International Standard Version (©2008)
All who came before me are thieves and bandits, but the sheep didn't listen to them.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
“And all who had come were thieves and robbers, but the flock did not hear them.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
All who came before I did were thieves or robbers. However, the sheep didn't respond to them.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
American King James Version
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
American Standard Version
All that came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Douay-Rheims Bible
All others, as many as have come, are thieves and robbers: and the sheep heard them not.
Darby Bible Translation
All whoever came before me are thieves and robbers; but the sheep did not hear them.
English Revised Version
All that came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Webster's Bible Translation
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Weymouth New Testament
All who have come before me are thieves and robbers; but the sheep would not listen to them.
World English Bible
All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep didn't listen to them.
Young's Literal Translation
all, as many as came before me, are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them;

Click to expand...

Where does it say the writer of the Torah was a thief, robber and child of blood lust? It doesn't.

dollarsbill said:

Where does it say the writer of the Torah was a thief, robber and child of blood lust? It doesn't.

Click to expand...

all, as many as came before me, are thieves and robbers

Soulgazer said:

all, as many as came before me, are thieves and robbers

Click to expand...

Why would Jesus quote a thief, robber and child of blood lust???

dollarsbill said:

Why would Jesus quote a thief, robber and child of blood lust???

Click to expand...

If all were thieves robbers, and children of lust, who else could he quote?



New International Version (©1984)
Glancing this way and that and seeing no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.New Living Translation (©2007)
After looking in all directions to make sure no one was watching, Moses killed the Egyptian and hid the body in the sand.
English Standard Version (©2001)
He looked this way and that, and seeing no one, he struck down the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
So he looked this way and that, and when he saw there was no one around, he struck down the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
He looked all around, and when he didn't see anyone, he beat the Egyptian to death and hid the body in the sand.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
American King James Version
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
American Standard Version
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he smote the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And when he had looked about this way and that way, and saw no one there, he slew the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
Darby Bible Translation
And he turned this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he smote the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
English Revised Version
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he smote the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
Webster's Bible Translation
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
World English Bible
He looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no one, he killed the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
Young's Literal Translation
and he turneth hither and thither, and seeth that there is no man, and smiteth the Egyptian, and hideth him in the sand.

Soulgazer said:

If all were thieves robbers, and children of lust, who else could he quote?

Click to expand...

When Jesus quoted Moses He was quoting the Scriptures.

dollarsbill said:

When Jesus quoted Moses He was quoting the Scriptures.

Click to expand...

New International Version (©1984)
Glancing this way and that and seeing no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.New Living Translation (©2007)
After looking in all directions to make sure no one was watching, Moses killed the Egyptian and hid the body in the sand.
English Standard Version (©2001)
He looked this way and that, and seeing no one, he struck down the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
So he looked this way and that, and when he saw there was no one around, he struck down the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
He looked all around, and when he didn't see anyone, he beat the Egyptian to death and hid the body in the sand.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
American King James Version
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
American Standard Version
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he smote the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And when he had looked about this way and that way, and saw no one there, he slew the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
Darby Bible Translation
And he turned this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he smote the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
English Revised Version
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he smote the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
Webster's Bible Translation
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
World English Bible
He looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no one, he killed the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
Young's Literal Translation
and he turneth hither and thither, and seeth that there is no man, and smiteth the Egyptian, and hideth him in the sand.

Soulgazer said:

New International Version (©1984)
Glancing this way and that and seeing no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.New Living Translation (©2007)
After looking in all directions to make sure no one was watching, Moses killed the Egyptian and hid the body in the sand.
English Standard Version (©2001)
He looked this way and that, and seeing no one, he struck down the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
So he looked this way and that, and when he saw there was no one around, he struck down the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
He looked all around, and when he didn't see anyone, he beat the Egyptian to death and hid the body in the sand.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
American King James Version
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
American Standard Version
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he smote the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And when he had looked about this way and that way, and saw no one there, he slew the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
Darby Bible Translation
And he turned this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he smote the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
English Revised Version
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he smote the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
Webster's Bible Translation
And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
World English Bible
He looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no one, he killed the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.
Young's Literal Translation
and he turneth hither and thither, and seeth that there is no man, and smiteth the Egyptian, and hideth him in the sand.

Click to expand...

All before Moses met God. Does God hold YOUR sins against you?

dollarsbill said:

All before Moses met God. Does God hold YOUR sins against you?

Click to expand...

<< John 9:28 >>

New International Version (©1984)
Then they hurled insults at him and said, "You are this fellow's disciple! We are disciples of Moses!New Living Translation (©2007)
Then they cursed him and said, "You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses!
English Standard Version (©2001)
And they reviled him, saying, “You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
They reviled him and said, "You are His disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
International Standard Version (©2008)
At this, they turned on him in fury and said, "You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses!
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
But they were insulting him and were saying to him, “You are his disciple; we are the disciples of Moses.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The Jews yelled at him, "You're his disciple, but we're Moses' disciples.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Then they reviled him, and said, You are his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
American King James Version
Then they reviled him, and said, You are his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
American Standard Version
And they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are disciples of Moses.
Douay-Rheims Bible
They reviled him therefore, and said: Be thou his disciple; but we are the disciples of Moses.
Darby Bible Translation
They railed at him, and said, Thou art his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.
English Revised Version
And they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are disciples of Moses.
Webster's Bible Translation
Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are the disciples of Moses.
Weymouth New Testament
Then they railed at him, and said, "You are that man's disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.
World English Bible
They insulted him and said, "You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.
Young's Literal Translation
They reviled him, therefore, and said, 'Thou art his disciple, and we are Moses' disciples

Soulgazer said:

<< John 9:28 >>

New International Version (©1984)
Then they hurled insults at him and said, "You are this fellow's disciple! We are disciples of Moses!New Living Translation (©2007)
Then they cursed him and said, "You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses!
English Standard Version (©2001)
And they reviled him, saying, “You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
They reviled him and said, "You are His disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
International Standard Version (©2008)
At this, they turned on him in fury and said, "You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses!
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
But they were insulting him and were saying to him, “You are his disciple; we are the disciples of Moses.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The Jews yelled at him, "You're his disciple, but we're Moses' disciples.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Then they reviled him, and said, You are his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
American King James Version
Then they reviled him, and said, You are his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
American Standard Version
And they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are disciples of Moses.
Douay-Rheims Bible
They reviled him therefore, and said: Be thou his disciple; but we are the disciples of Moses.
Darby Bible Translation
They railed at him, and said, Thou art his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.
English Revised Version
And they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are disciples of Moses.
Webster's Bible Translation
Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are the disciples of Moses.
Weymouth New Testament
Then they railed at him, and said, "You are that man's disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.
World English Bible
They insulted him and said, "You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.
Young's Literal Translation
They reviled him, therefore, and said, 'Thou art his disciple, and we are Moses' disciples

Click to expand...

I'll try again. Does God hold YOUR sins against you?

<< John 5:45 >>

Whom is my accuser? Not Moses, for I have no hope in him. Nor trust. He was a murderer from the beginning.

New International Version (©1984)
"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.New Living Translation (©2007)
"Yet it isn't I who will accuse you before the Father. Moses will accuse you! Yes, Moses, in whom you put your hopes.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
International Standard Version (©2008)
Do not suppose that I will be the one to accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom you have set your hope,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Do you think that I am accusing you before The Father? There is one who accuses you: Moses, the one in whom you hope.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"Don't think that I will accuse you in the presence of the Father. Moses, the one you trust, is already accusing you.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuses you, even Moses, in whom you trust.
American King James Version
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuses you, even Moses, in whom you trust.
American Standard Version
Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, on whom ye have set your hope.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Think not that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one that accuseth you, Moses, in whom you trust.
Darby Bible Translation
Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one who accuses you, Moses, on whom ye trust;
English Revised Version
Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, on whom ye have set your hope.
Webster's Bible Translation
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
Weymouth New Testament
"Do not suppose that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you, namely Moses, on whom your hope rests.
World English Bible
"Don't think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you, even Moses, on whom you have set your hope.
Young's Literal Translation
'Do not think that I will accuse you unto the Father; there is who is accusing you, Moses -- in whom ye have hoped;

Soulgazer said:

<< John 5:45 >>

New International Version (©1984)
"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.New Living Translation (©2007)
"Yet it isn't I who will accuse you before the Father. Moses will accuse you! Yes, Moses, in whom you put your hopes.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
International Standard Version (©2008)
Do not suppose that I will be the one to accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom you have set your hope,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Do you think that I am accusing you before The Father? There is one who accuses you: Moses, the one in whom you hope.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"Don't think that I will accuse you in the presence of the Father. Moses, the one you trust, is already accusing you.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuses you, even Moses, in whom you trust.
American King James Version
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuses you, even Moses, in whom you trust.
American Standard Version
Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, on whom ye have set your hope.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Think not that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one that accuseth you, Moses, in whom you trust.
Darby Bible Translation
Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one who accuses you, Moses, on whom ye trust;
English Revised Version
Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, on whom ye have set your hope.
Webster's Bible Translation
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
Weymouth New Testament
"Do not suppose that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you, namely Moses, on whom your hope rests.
World English Bible
"Don't think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you, even Moses, on whom you have set your hope.
Young's Literal Translation
'Do not think that I will accuse you unto the Father; there is who is accusing you, Moses -- in whom ye have hoped;

Click to expand...

If you don't forgive Moses neither will God forgive you. Do I need to quote Jesus???

dollarsbill said:

If you don't forgive Moses neither will God forgive you. Do I need to quote Jesus???

Click to expand...

I forgive him, as God did, after he died. He appeared on the Mount of Olives in glory, and no longer in his sins. I do not trust his writings. I trust Jesus and Jesus only.

Soulgazer said:

I forgive him, as God did, after he died. He appeared on the Mount of Olives in glory, and no longer in his sins. I do not trust his writings.

Click to expand...

OH MY! Do you really think that any writer of the Bible was not a sinner? How about YOU? Are you a sinner? Should we trust you who calls Moses a thief, robber and child of blood lust??? Should we trust Moses or YOU???

dollarsbill said:

OH MY! Do you really think that any writer of the Bible was not a sinner? How about YOU? Are you a sinner? Should we trust you who calls Moses a thief, robber and child of blood lust??? Should we trust Moses or YOU???

Click to expand...

I certainly won't trust you. You are still trying to make Jesus say that "all" does not mean "all". If Jesus called them thieves and robbers, who are we to disagree? Are you the judge of Jesus? You seem to be trying to be.

Don't trust either of us. Trust Jesus.

Soulgazer said:

I certainly won't trust you.

Click to expand...

I didn't ask you to. As you have clearly said, neither do you trust the Bible.

You are still trying to make Jesus say that "all" does not mean "all". If Jesus called them thieves and robbers, who are we to disagree? Are you the judge of Jesus? You seem to be trying to be.

Click to expand...

Moses was not a thief, robber and child of blood lust, as YOU have said.

Don't trust either of us. Trust Jesus.

Click to expand...

I trust Moses and Jesus.

dollarsbill said:

I didn't ask you to. As you have clearly said, neither do you trust the Bible.

Moses was not a thief, robber and child of blood lust, as YOU have said.

I trust Moses and Jesus.

Click to expand...

So, Jesus was mistaken? He meant "all" except Moses? No thanks. I believe Jesus. Did Jesus say "Me and Moses are the way the Truth and the light"?

12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord&#8217;s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Soulgazer said:

So, Jesus was mistaken? He meant "all" except Moses? No thanks. I believe Jesus.

Click to expand...

You are twisting Jesus' words. He did not call Moses a thief and robber. You did.