Politicizing the Gospel

Trogool · Apr 24, 2012

It is deeply disturbing to me to have witnessed the politicizing of Christianity in this nation. The conjoining of politics and faith have led to a polarization of our nation that has not been seen since just prior to the Civil War. In our having politicized Christianity, we've reduced the Gospel of Christ to a battle between political and social issues that have alienated many from the ultimate message of Christ, that we are in need of redemption, and that repentance and conversion of heart are to become the priority of each and every one of us.

Soooo true I think.

gurneyhalleck1 · Apr 24, 2012

Using religion to get people politically brainwashed? First thing that comes to mind? Fox News!

Dorothea · Apr 24, 2012

You should have posted all of Abbot Tryphon's great commentary on that. I posted it to my wall on FB.

Politicizing the Gospel
The Gospel of Christ, and Politics

It is deeply disturbing to me to have witnessed the politicizing of Christianity in this nation. The conjoining of politics and faith have led to a polarization of our nation that has not been seen since just prior to the Civil War. In our having politicized Christianity, we've reduced the Gospel of Christ to a battle between political and social issues that have alienated many from the ultimate message of Christ, that we are in need of redemption, and that repentance and conversion of heart are to become the priority of each and every one of us.

By insisting that we are still a Christian nation, we've allowed a polarization to take place that has pushed Christianity to the brink, having linked values, and moral teachings that are based on the Gospels, while the world around us has become jaded, even hostile, to whatever the Church has to say. Thus, the primary message of the Gospel is dismissed, before people can even be brought through the door of our temples.

Today's youth are leaving Christianity in droves, as has been demonstrated in the demographics of America's "Bible Belt". The number of young people, even in the conservative South, who are giving birth out of wedlock, or having abortions, has skyrocketed. The support of civil marriage for same sex partners, has increased dramatically. These moral issues are of course a concern for Christians, but our acceptance of the moral standards set forth in the Scriptures, are received by us, not as law, but as a result of our personal encounter with Christ. Legislative action ignores the fact that Christ changes the heart, and a society that is to be transformed, must see this transformation take place in the hearts of its people. For we Christians to foist our beliefs upon the nation, only creates resentment, and Christophobia.

Society must be transformed, but it can not be done by force of law. It must be done by bringing Christ to the center of our national scene. This can only be done when Christian love and charity rule, and when the nation can see in it's Christian peoples, an honesty of heart, and a authentic witness to Christ, that is not based on an angry polarization that contributes nothing but distrust, and disunity.

Chuck Colson, who was one of President Nixon's Watergate people, and who, during his incarceration in prison, converted to Christ, said: “We made a big mistake in the ’80s by politicizing the Gospel … We [thought] that we could solve the deteriorating moral state of our culture by electing good guys. That’s nonsense. Now people are kind of realizing it was a mistake." Change must begin with us, not with our society. Laws will not make this a Christian nation, for many of these very laws some politicians would enact, are also the basis of Islamic law. Biblical morality can only become an integral part of our nation, when we, as a people, have taken Christ into our hearts, and allowed the Holy Spirit to change us.

As Christians, we must not detract from the central message of the Gospels, by making it appear to be a part of one political party. To do so, will eventually lead to the total discrediting of the institution of the Church. History has proven, time and again, that the Church must remain aloof from political parties, or movements, for when the party is out of office, so is the Church's influence. Christianizing of a nation can not be the result of legislation. It must come with the conversion of its people.

Love in Christ,
Abbot Tryphon

Trogool · Apr 24, 2012

Dorothea said:
You should have posted all of Abbot Tryphon's great commentary on that. I posted it to my wall on FB.

Politicizing the Gospel
The Gospel of Christ, and Politics

It is deeply disturbing to me to have witnessed the politicizing of Christianity in this nation. The conjoining of politics and faith have led to a polarization of our nation that has not been seen since just prior to the Civil War. In our having politicized Christianity, we've reduced the Gospel of Christ to a battle between political and social issues that have alienated many from the ultimate message of Christ, that we are in need of redemption, and that repentance and conversion of heart are to become the priority of each and every one of us.

By insisting that we are still a Christian nation, we've allowed a polarization to take place that has pushed Christianity to the brink, having linked values, and moral teachings that are based on the Gospels, while the world around us has become jaded, even hostile, to whatever the Church has to say. Thus, the primary message of the Gospel is dismissed, before people can even be brought through the door of our temples.

Today's youth are leaving Christianity in droves, as has been demonstrated in the demographics of America's "Bible Belt". The number of young people, even in the conservative South, who are giving birth out of wedlock, or having abortions, has skyrocketed. The support of civil marriage for same sex partners, has increased dramatically. These moral issues are of course a concern for Christians, but our acceptance of the moral standards set forth in the Scriptures, are received by us, not as law, but as a result of our personal encounter with Christ. Legislative action ignores the fact that Christ changes the heart, and a society that is to be transformed, must see this transformation take place in the hearts of its people. For we Christians to foist our beliefs upon the nation, only creates resentment, and Christophobia.

Society must be transformed, but it can not be done by force of law. It must be done by bringing Christ to the center of our national scene. This can only be done when Christian love and charity rule, and when the nation can see in it's Christian peoples, an honesty of heart, and a authentic witness to Christ, that is not based on an angry polarization that contributes nothing but distrust, and disunity.

Chuck Colson, who was one of President Nixon's Watergate people, and who, during his incarceration in prison, converted to Christ, said: We made a big mistake in the 80s by politicizing the Gospel We [thought] that we could solve the deteriorating moral state of our culture by electing good guys. Thats nonsense. Now people are kind of realizing it was a mistake." Change must begin with us, not with our society. Laws will not make this a Christian nation, for many of these very laws some politicians would enact, are also the basis of Islamic law. Biblical morality can only become an integral part of our nation, when we, as a people, have taken Christ into our hearts, and allowed the Holy Spirit to change us.

As Christians, we must not detract from the central message of the Gospels, by making it appear to be a part of one political party. To do so, will eventually lead to the total discrediting of the institution of the Church. History has proven, time and again, that the Church must remain aloof from political parties, or movements, for when the party is out of office, so is the Church's influence. Christianizing of a nation can not be the result of legislation. It must come with the conversion of its people.

Love in Christ,
Abbot Tryphon

Oh, I would have posted all of it, but I thought there was some rule about only posting the first paragraph or something of articles.

buzuxi02 · Apr 25, 2012

While i disagree with most of the assumptions of this article, its true that the gospel should stand apart from politics and transcend them.

gurneyhalleck1 · Apr 25, 2012

Which assumptions do you find objectionable?

buzuxi02 said:
While i disagree with most of the assumptions of this article, its true that the gospel should stand apart from politics and transcend them.

buzuxi02 · Apr 25, 2012

I think the abbot like many people are still in denial. Christians hate Christianity. Western culture has departed from its christian roots and even though the majority of the population still claim to be christian on their census forms, in reality they are killing it off.

The abbot uses an example from a convert of, "laws will not make this a christian nation". True, nothing will. Christianity in this nation and in every western nation is receding because its christian populace no longer wants it! Christians dont want to live in a christian nation, western christianity worships seperation of church from state, its called a secular democracy.

Many bishops and clergy are in denial thinking their inherited western culture is 'chosen' by God to be forever the torchbearer of christianity but in reality their pseudo-christian heritage has stabbed them in the back. .

Silentchapel · Apr 25, 2012

Christians dont want to live in a christian nation, western christianity worships seperation of church from state, its called a secular democracy.

Actually this is much older than it's apparent.
As St. Constantine said, why he doesn't want to be baptized: "As a Christian I couldn't do the same things I must do as an Emperor". That is why he postponed baptism until his very end.

Trogool · Apr 25, 2012

buzuxi02 said:
I think the abbot like many people are still in denial. Christians hate Christianity. Western culture has departed from its christian roots and even though the majority of the population still claim to be christian on their census forms, in reality they are killing it off.

The abbot uses an example from a convert of, "laws will not make this a christian nation". True, nothing will. Christianity in this nation and in every western nation is receding because its christian populace no longer wants it! Christians dont want to live in a christian nation, western christianity worships seperation of church from state, its called a secular democracy.

Many bishops and clergy are in denial thinking their inherited western culture is 'chosen' by God to be forever the torchbearer of christianity but in reality their pseudo-christian heritage has stabbed them in the back. .

What?... I don't even understand what you are saying. What Father Tryphon is saying is that shoving our moral code down everyone elses' throats via legislation will just make everyone (understandably) hate us.

The only way we are going to get real transformation is to evangelize and live the Gospel so that the people around us are transformed by Christ. When an entire nation of people is truly transformed by Christ, there won't be the massive social problems and iniquities that the RCC is trying to stamp out through enormous political campaigns and lobbying.

buzuxi02 · Apr 25, 2012

I have never heard of christians recently passing christian laws. Quite on the contrary, immoral legislative laws are instead being hoisted upon society by nominal christians. Real christians simply want the status quo as do all immigrant groups EXCEPT for those from Europe.

The peoples of the west have already been evangelized but have apostacized. There is nothing to transform because as the saying goes, 'been there done that'.

From the article it seems the abbot is in agony and doesnt want to accept the truth, the fact that his culture has receded from christianity and now despise it. The foundations of the west may have been based on christianity in the past but it no longer is. Christians disliked the 'transformation' that the article speaks of and prefers the transformation of the enlightenment era.

The abbot says, 'By insisting that we are still a christian nation...' So he realizes at one time it could have been a christian nation but it no longer is, yet he is still trying to revive something nobody wants. He believes the young lady who remains a virgin till marriage will make all the young ladies want to remain virgins. Sorry but christian women and men dont want that, they did away with it in the 1950's and those that hold out are ridiculed. Christian living will not transform your neighbors, your neighbors consider you unenlightened throwbacks. Not even Orthodox christians want to bring 'Christ back to the national scene', being infected with western values, religion is a 'personal thing '.

Now if you dont think laws can change societies wait till shariah law comes knocking.

Trogool · Apr 25, 2012

buzuxi02 said:
I have never heard of christians recently passing christian laws. Quite on the contrary, immoral legislative laws are instead being hoisted upon society by nominal christians. Real christians simply want the status quo as do all immigrant groups EXCEPT for those from Europe.

The peoples of the west have already been evangelized but have apostacized. There is nothing to transform because as the saying goes, 'been there done that'.

From the article it seems the abbot is in agony and doesnt want to accept the truth, the fact that his culture has receded from christianity and now despise it. The foundations of the west may have been based on christianity in the past but it no longer is. Christians disliked the 'transformation' that the article speaks of and prefers the transformation of the enlightenment era.

The abbot says, 'By insisting that we are still a christian nation...' So he realizes at one time it could have been a christian nation but it no longer is, yet he is still trying to revive something nobody wants. He believes the young lady who remains a virgin till marriage will make all the young ladies want to remain virgins. Sorry but christian women and men dont want that, they did away with it in the 1950's and those that hold out are ridiculed. Christian living will not transform your neighbors, your neighbors consider you unenlightened throwbacks. Not even Orthodox christians want to bring 'Christ back to the national scene', being infected with western values, religion is a 'personal thing '.

Now if you dont think laws can change societies wait till shariah law comes knocking.

I guess I simply disagree, entirely.

Luckster · Apr 26, 2012

gurneyhalleck1 said:
Using religion to get people politically brainwashed? First thing that comes to mind? Fox News!

If you think that, then you missed the President's comments on how he believes Jesus would approve of higher taxes on the rich. It goes both ways.

Having said that, Orthodox shouldn't concern themselves with (re)turning the United States into a "Christian nation" (or even Western Civilization). We need to address moral relativism in the Church, that is when communicants join political parties who promote beliefs that run contrary to the Apostolic Faith but justify it with phrases like "That's not what I believe, but who am I to tell others how to live their lives?"

buzuxi02 · Apr 27, 2012

Luckster said:
.

Having said that, Orthodox shouldn't concern themselves with (re)turning the United States into a "Christian nation" (or even Western Civilization). We need to address moral relativism in the Church, that is when communicants join political parties who promote beliefs that run contrary to the Apostolic Faith but justify it with phrases like "That's not what I believe, but who am I to tell others how to live their lives?"

As much as i wish the pendulum would swing back and make western civilization embrace its christian roots, I'm way too cynical to ever believe the 'good old days' will return. I agree with your post.

Luckster · Apr 27, 2012

buzuxi02 said:
As much as i wish the pendulum would swing back and make western civilization embrace its christian roots, I'm way too cynical to ever believe the 'good old days' will return. I agree with your post.

If history taught us anything, it's that every few hundred years when things became so bad, there would a spiritual awakening. Consider the rate things are going now, we're either heading towards End Times or another great awakening.

Ignatius21 · Apr 27, 2012

Luckster said:
If you think that, then you missed the President's comments on how he believes Jesus would approve of higher taxes on the rich. It goes both ways.

Having said that, Orthodox shouldn't concern themselves with (re)turning the United States into a "Christian nation" (or even Western Civilization). We need to address moral relativism in the Church, that is when communicants join political parties who promote beliefs that run contrary to the Apostolic Faith but justify it with phrases like "That's not what I believe, but who am I to tell others how to live their lives?"

Very true. One problem is that, in politicizing Christian morality, at times it seems we end up with part of Christian morality on one side, and part on the other. If you want to vote for someone who might actually win an election, sometimes it seems you must choose...either I can vote to protect unborn life, or I can vote to preserve the environment. I can vote for the one who supports social welfare programs (if you happen to think that's an effective way of caring for the poor), but them I'm also voting to legalize homosexual "marriage." Each side grabs onto a few "Christian" moral principles and then tries to claim the high ground.

Luckster · Apr 28, 2012

Ignatius21 said:
Very true. One problem is that, in politicizing Christian morality, at times it seems we end up with part of Christian morality on one side, and part on the other. If you want to vote for someone who might actually win an election, sometimes it seems you must choose...either I can vote to protect unborn life, or I can vote to preserve the environment. I can vote for the one who supports social welfare programs (if you happen to think that's an effective way of caring for the poor), but them I'm also voting to legalize homosexual "marriage." Each side grabs onto a few "Christian" moral principles and then tries to claim the high ground.

Then it would come down to which side is more "extreme". When does environmentalism turn into neo-animism when it's nearly being worshiped as "Mother Nature"? Ever notice that "Act(s) of God" have been replaced with "Force(s) of Nature"? Just like social welfare programs, which most people support, should only go to those who deserve it, not relying on the government for everything.

In this country, we have stereotypes and, until we meet someone of that demographic we typically give some credence to those stereotypes. I must confess I've done this. I'm a night manager and my company employs a Polish-American-owned cleaning business. The "Russian team" is assigned to my store. I was talking to the Russian supervisor and he was contrasting the USSR, Russia, and the US. He believes that government should help the poor and elderly, but there's a point when it's too much, such was the case with the USSR. Of course, the same Russian admits to not voting, because he believes the entire system is corrupt and broken (based on his experiences in Russia). I don't know about you, but I find it interesting talking to non-Americans or immigrants about their opinions on the country. Americans, by and large, have become far to jaded to even come to the table anymore.

gurneyhalleck1 · Apr 28, 2012

Well I would bet money that Jesus would want those who can shoulder the tax and not even have any real effect on their hundreds of millions rather than tax middle class folks who only make $40,000 a year at a higher rate. I don't think Jesus would approve of Warren Buffett paying less taxes than his secretary. So I'm ok with what Obama said.

I dont think the Orthodox need to start weeding through what parishoners do in the voting booth and creating a litmus test rubric to see if they're legit Orthodox or phonies based on voting patterns. There is no solution to finding a perfectly moral candidate. Vote Democrat and you vote pro-abortion and gay yet you help the poor and the middle class, the worker, keep us from being a third world country, protect the environment, and get people health care. You protect the vulnerable elsewhere. Vote Republican and you get to protect the womb and stop gay rights yet you support the outsourcing CEO's and wealthy 1% elites who could care less about you and I while we pollute at will and start wars all over the world needlessly. Take your pick. Both are evil and good mixed together with varying degrees.

The Catholics love voter's guides and forcing politics down your neck. One thing about Orthodoxy I have liked is that they DO NOT do such things!

Luckster said:
If you think that, then you missed the President's comments on how he believes Jesus would approve of higher taxes on the rich. It goes both ways.

Having said that, Orthodox shouldn't concern themselves with (re)turning the United States into a "Christian nation" (or even Western Civilization). We need to address moral relativism in the Church, that is when communicants join political parties who promote beliefs that run contrary to the Apostolic Faith but justify it with phrases like "That's not what I believe, but who am I to tell others how to live their lives?"

Julina · Apr 30, 2012

thank you for this

Luckster · May 1, 2012

gurneyhalleck1 said:
snip

Yeah, you pretty much revealed that you're a Leftist incognito.

Politics should be seen as improving society as a whole, not nominal demographics which is largely in line with the Church's teaching. In other words, I don't separate issues and 'categorize' (which is very Western). Like I said earlier in this thread, conservationism is great, but once it gets carried away (Earth Day, Mother Nature, etc), it turns into the very unChristian teaching of neo-animism.

But I digress, I won't get into any more specifics. If you'd like to talk more, we can do it in PMs.

Trogool · May 1, 2012

Luckster said:
Yeah, you pretty much revealed that you're a Leftist incognito.

why would he have to be incognito about it? It's not exactly some dirty secret.

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