Do Christians actually believe U.S. is a Christian nation

stiggywiggy said:

See how absurd things become when you conflate the individual with Caesar?

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For the record, disciple2011 indicates that he is not a Christian.

Yet, he posts here often to tell Christians how to conduct their affairs. Weird ...

stiggywiggy said:

(6). Therefore since governments are required to obey the words of Christ and turn the other cheek when attacked, after Pearl Harbor was bombed by the Japanese, FDR should have offered them Oregon also.

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Japan bombed Pearl Harbor because we stopped trade with them after they invaded Vietnam. They invaded Vietnam so they could have an empire just like we did, and Britain did, and France did, etc. Japan has very little in the way of natural resources like iron and oil, which the other Asian nations had. By cutting off trade with them, we starved them of even more iron and oil, that they needed to function as a society.

There were other things we did, but the basic point is that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because we egged them on. Had we followed the Golden Rule through our entire history, Japan would have had no reason to bomb Pearl Harbor.

See how absurd things become when you conflate the individual with Caesar?

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Not really. When you take history into context, there's a very strong argument to be made for why conflating the individual with Caesar (which is made up of individuals, making the distinction meaningless) is actually a beneficial philosophy.

NightHawkeye said:

For the record, disciple2011 indicates that he is not a Christian.

Yet, he posts here often to tell Christians how to conduct their affairs. Weird ...

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One does not need to be of a particular philosophy/religion/lifestyle/etc. to point out when a person of those particular beliefs is not properly following their own beliefs.

SmellsLikeCurlyFries said:

Japan bombed Pearl Harbor because we stopped trade with them after they invaded Vietnam. They invaded Vietnam so they could have an empire just like we did, and Britain did, and France did, etc. Japan has very little in the way of natural resources like iron and oil, which the other Asian nations had. By cutting off trade with them, we starved them of even more iron and oil, that they needed to function as a society.

There were other things we did, but the basic point is that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because we egged them on. Had we followed the Golden Rule through our entire history, Japan would have had no reason to bomb Pearl Harbor.

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I see. So if the American government had followed the words of Christ, they would have done unto Japan as they would have had the government of Japan do unto them, and then there would have been no war in the Pacific. Gosh, just think; If only Churchill had followed the words of Christ, and turned the other cheek when bombed ("Adolph, you want to bomb London? Here, come bomb Liverpool too."), so many lives would have been saved.

stiggywiggy said:

I see. So if the American government had followed the words of Christ, they would have done unto Japan as they would have had the government of Japan do unto them, and then there would have been no war in the Pacific. Gosh, just think; If only Churchill had followed the words of Christ, and turned the other cheek when bombed ("Adolph, you want to bomb London? Here, come bomb Liverpool too."), so many lives would have been saved.

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Apples to oranges. In the one case, you have a war with Japan that could have been 100% averted just by not being jerkoffs to Japan. In the other, you have a maniac bent on world conquest for the "Master Race" who will attack anybody and everybody until he and his people are the only ones left. Churchill's only recourse was war.

HOWEVER, if we go back further in time to the end of World War I, had the Allies (mainly the Triple Entente) not blamed Germany as the sole cause of the war and forced them to pay reparations, Hitler never would have had the conditions he needed to take power and World War II could have been averted, once again by simply putting the Golden Rule into practice.

Why don't we go ahead and trace history all the way back to the first idiot who did NOT treat another like him/herself, and put the blame squarely on them, shall we? Or, better yet, since all of that is history, past and done, how about we all concentrate on attempting to put into practice our own beliefs, huh?

Starting with this: "I don't care who did what to whom, regardless how it affected me. Let's move on to what can be done now."



...Just a thought.

RETS said:

Why don't we go ahead and trace history all the way back to the first idiot who did NOT treat another like him/herself, and put the blame squarely on them, shall we? Or, better yet, since all of that is history, past and done, how about we all concentrate on attempting to put into practice our own beliefs, huh?

Starting with this: "I don't care who did what to whom, regardless how it affected me. Let's move on to what can be done now."



...Just a thought.

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What you say sounds nice, but the problem is as George Santayana so eloquently put it: Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it.

It's kinda like how "forgive and forget" sounds nice, but doesn't work in practice. Forgive, yes. But forget? If you forget, how will you be prepared for if it happens in the future?

The simple truth of the matter is that every problem today can be solved by a simple understanding of our history. To ignore it is to doom yourself to eternally make the same mistakes in an endless cycle.

SmellsLikeCurlyFries said:

What you say sounds nice, but the problem is as George Santayana so eloquently put it: Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it.

It's kinda like how "forgive and forget" sounds nice, but doesn't work in practice. Forgive, yes. But forget? If you forget, how will you be prepared for if it happens in the future?

The simple truth of the matter is that every problem today can be solved by a simple understanding of our history. To ignore it is to doom yourself to eternally make the same mistakes in an endless cycle.

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Look carefully at my statement, Fries. There's nothing there about forgetting.

You see, the whole concept of "forgive and forget" isn't Biblical. Thus, I don't believe it, not for a second. Because of this, I would never propose forgetting.

RETS said:

Look carefully at my statement, Fries. There's nothing there about forgetting.

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I know, I was merely using it as an example to illustrate my point.

Do Christians actually believe U.S. is a Christian nation

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No. Because its not.

Blackwater Babe said:

No. Because its not.

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SmellsLikeCurlyFries said:

One does not need to be of a particular philosophy/religion/lifestyle/etc. to point out when a person of those particular beliefs is not properly following their own beliefs.

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And what good reason would a person of an "unidentified" faith have for doing so?

stiggywiggy said:

A command, huh? Let me get this straight:

(1). Jesus told us to do unto others as we would have others do unto ourselves.

(2). Women want the right to vote.

(3). Men realize that women want the right to vote and since men also want the right to vote, therefore men should do unto these women by letting them vote.

(4). Therefore Jesus Christ is "pro" on the political issue of women's suffrage. In fact, Jesus COMMANDS that governments allow women to vote.

(5). Therefore governments (or Caesar) should also obey the Goden Rule and do unto others as these governments would have others do unto them.

(6). Therefore since governments are required to obey the words of Christ and turn the other cheek when attacked, after Pearl Harbor was bombed by the Japanese, FDR should have offered them Oregon also.

See how absurd things become when you conflate the individual with Caesar?

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Yet I am not the one stating a belief that the US version of Caesar is straight from Holy God.

The Christians say it is.

You have point by point proven it is not. Thanks.

But the Christians that do will never stop saying it is because they want to justify themselves and their loyalty to a fallen worldly government.

NightHawkeye said:

For the record, disciple2011 indicates that he is not a Christian.

Yet, he posts here often to tell Christians how to conduct their affairs. Weird ...

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Well if you don't police yourself then who will?

Besides I see more old Jewishness in most Christians anyway.

stiggywiggy said:

I see. So if the American government had followed the words of Christ, they would have done unto Japan as they would have had the government of Japan do unto them, and then there would have been no war in the Pacific. Gosh, just think; If only Churchill had followed the words of Christ, and turned the other cheek when bombed ("Adolph, you want to bomb London? Here, come bomb Liverpool too."), so many lives would have been saved.

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Churchill was not in power when the Allies raped Germany after WWI.

IF they had done to them what we did after WWII with the Marshall Plan we would have had NO power vacuum to allow a nut job like Hitler in.

But those kooky Christian nations wanted eye for an eye when they were told by THEIR KING eye for and eye was no more.

They broke the Second Great Command of their KING. That guy they said was in their hearts and lorded over them making the Kingdom now within them.

Most Christians want to be king and make Jesus the one on bended knee.

SmellsLikeCurlyFries said:

What you say sounds nice, but the problem is as George Santayana so eloquently put it: Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it.

It's kinda like how "forgive and forget" sounds nice, but doesn't work in practice. Forgive, yes. But forget? If you forget, how will you be prepared for if it happens in the future?

The simple truth of the matter is that every problem today can be solved by a simple understanding of our history. To ignore it is to doom yourself to eternally make the same mistakes in an endless cycle.

Click to expand...

Nothing is forgotten. Nothing is ever forgotten.

disciple2011 said:

Well if you don't police yourself then who will?

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You ... it seems ... LOL.

If only you could get it right.

disciple2011 said:

Besides I see more old Jewishness in most Christians anyway.

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Funny you bring that up. I had that problem on El Al Airlines flying to Tel Aviv last year. The flight attendants kept speaking to me in Hebrew. It didn't matter how confused I looked, they'd continue speaking Hebrew until I asked for them to speak English. It helped remove any doubt about my own Jewish ancestry.

NightHawkeye said:

And what good reason would a person of an "unidentified" faith have for doing so?

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Oh you don't remember the Samaritan? Not of Jews, despised?

Yet he helped when no one else would.

Perhaps my chastisement is to remind you of who you all claim to be.

Or perhaps I am a tormentor from Matthew 18:34?

Maybe both?

Who can say?

NightHawkeye said:

You ... it seems ... LOL.

If only you could get it right.

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Your kind of right, the old wine right?

Or the new wine right?

Or does the old taste better?

disciple2011 said:

Your kind of right, the old wine right?

Or the new wine right?

Or does the old taste better?

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Regardless ... enjoy your time here, disciple. Hope you learn something.