No one thinks the Church is a building, unless i missed that part. I didn't read the whole thread.
Upvote
0
Do you ever sit in church and wonder, 'What are we doing here?'
Do you look around at the ceremony, the ecclesiastical decorum, the form, the plays, the pews, the ceilings, the conversations, the clothing, the language, and wonder, is this what Jesus meant to create? Is this what Paul meant to leave us as a legacy?
I often wonder if the early disciples could visit us; if the apostles could step into any of our church services, would they question, "Exactly what the heck are you doing here?" "What's the point?"
How did we get here? Who makes the rules? Why does it continue to be that way; or worse, why does it keep devolving? Do you, like me, feel disconnected from all the trappings and irrelevancy, while the world is going to hell in a hand basket all around us? Are we really fulfilling the purpose of God in our lives and the church, or are we just getting together, like in most of these forums, to socialize for our own amusement? - Frustrated christian -
I read Francis Chans book Crazy Love and although I loved the book, I kinda had a similar reaction to Church. I mean every Sunday people head to church for an hour, don't say a word to anyone on the way in and out (besides greeter) climb into their SUV/Cars and head to the mall, home for tv watching, movies etc and thats that. Yeah somehow its got to more all encompassing than this. Don't have a lot of answers but I come up with similar questions.
The truth is, there really isn't any hope for us to actually change the entire picture. It's too big, and has gone on too long, and too many people, like in the Matrix, have a vested interest in keeping it that way. They don't want any trouble. They don't know what we're really here for.
They also don't realize that the church is not a corporate thing. It's not an institution. Rather, each individual is attached to Christ, or they are not at all. The church isn't what we 'see' with our human eyes. It's the spirits beneath, and as Paul told Timothy, 'The Lord knows those who are His.' If we think of Jesus' called out people as being a human institution, then we will be duped into 'assuming' that everyone who attends an assembly is a Christian. Remember that there were demon possessed people sitting in the Synagogue when Jesus came, and only His presence exposed them for who they really were.
Why would demons want to sit through a church service? Because they want to destroy the real purpose of the church, to confuse it, dilute it, strip it of its spiritual power, and divert it from the war against the very demons who are sitting there. There is no place on earth that the devil wants to be more than in the pulpit of the church, dictating and reinventing the image and calling of the church of Christ in the earth.
So the only real hope we have is that Satan stops being nice to the church, and start attacking it brutally, so that the chaff and false doctrines can be weeded out, and then the church will rediscover its true, original purpose again. It's the only way - except maybe if God graciously pours out His Spirit in a revival again. But that still won't remove the false believers and imitators.
How I wish I could just embrace each professor of Christ, and somehow enable them to experience His real presence and glory like we do who have been born of the Spirit. I wish for myself that I could revive those early days when my heart was sooo sensitive to His Spirit and His holiness, and wouldn't dare do anything to profane or offend him, to break that precious fellowship. May God be real to us, not just a holiday.
We are asked:What should we do to experience these things?
What should we do to experience these things?
Alpha, is it working yet? You know I love you and your heart is an honest one, and a very hungry one, just the heart God is searching for! Whether or not you see it yet, it is a great advantage you have. I have full confidence that He which has begun a good work in you WILL perform it unto the day of Jesus Christ.Sadly, I do not know. Isn't that terrible? There are things I did in the past. I can tell you that watching the Keith Green biography dvd really worked. Just seeing someone so filled with the Spirit, over and over again put me on the floor for days!
The other was just falling down and admitting to God that I lost it. I sinned so many times and ways that my heart had become callused and desensitized, and no one could be blamed but me. I chose. I despised the spirit of grace, and trod the Son of God underfoot. I sold myself to sin, choosing pleasure over the love of Christ, and now the prodigal doesn't even know how to come home anymore.
I stayed on my knees, fasted, and confessed every single thing I ever did, renounced them in prayer, and confessed what God said was the correct thing to have done was.
I went to church every day, all kinds of churches to fill up my schedule, and not to socialize, but for prayer, discipleship, accountability, and to serve others.
I also committed to obey every written or 'perceived' command of God.
There is still hope for many others that these things will work.
It is a work of grace, and we have to admit to God that although we were the ones who got ourselves in trouble, only he can get us out. Then read the gospels over and over to learn the true character of God, and meditate on those words.
Alpha, is it working yet?
What do you expect it to be? The building we gather and worship in on Sunday isn't the church. You are. We are. Community is something you have to contribute to build, and it isn't something that brought about by professional clergy.
All the organized church really can be in a culture as independent as ours is some spiritual leadership and a gathering place. The rest of what the church is about is the function of the Holy Spirit through the children of God.
Most of us -- me included -- easily fall into the trap of expecting everyone else to make a great church. In reality, in terms of the relationships needed to make the church work, my contribution is between God and me, and I cannot concern myself or judge everybody else. Frankly, what I need to remember is that _I_ am the greatest threat to a functioning church. When more and more of us think of it that way, each of us start to contribute our part... and the community grows.
It is NEVER going to be easy, because relationships are very hard. It is always easier to be discouraged about what others are up to rather than face up to the fact that love doesn't sit around and wait for everybody else to start. Real love does what it does in the midst of those that don't love.
God is in control of His church. To sit around and complain about the church is like telling Jesus that His bride is ugly. It doesn't do any good to do that. Rather, all we can do is ask "Jesus, what part do _I_ have in this?" That's a prayer He'll answer.
Hey boys.. Thanks for the reply! I asked because a lot of people say that they see things, and feel things, and have dreams and visions.. But I am a christian since I was born, and never felt nothing supernatural...
Hey alpha, I will check out the Keith Green video! Thanks.
Most of us -- me included -- easily fall into the trap of expecting everyone else to make a great church. In reality, in terms of the relationships needed to make the church work, my contribution is between God and me, and I cannot concern myself or judge everybody else. Frankly, what I need to remember is that _I_ am the greatest threat to a functioning church. When more and more of us think of it that way, each of us start to contribute our part... and the community grows.
God is in control of His church. To sit around and complain about the church is like telling Jesus that His bride is ugly. It doesn't do any good to do that. Rather, all we can do is ask "Jesus, what part do _I_ have in this?" That's a prayer He'll answer.