Called to be holy. No room for failure? part i

It is clear that the difference between New Covenant saints, and Old Covenant people of God is the New Nature.

Jer 2:7 And I brought you into a plentiful land to enjoy its fruits and its good things. But when you came in, you defiled my land and made my heritage an abomination.
Jer 32:23 And they entered and took possession of it. But they did not obey your voice or walk in your law. They did nothing of all you commanded them to do. Therefore you have made all this disaster come upon them.
But these were people who didn't have the spirit of God dwelling in them - at least, not all of them.

And a young man ran and told Moses, "Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp." And Joshua the son of Nun, the assistant of Moses from his youth, said, "My lord Moses, stop them." But Moses said to him, "Are you jealous for my sake? Would that all the LORD's people were prophets, that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!"
(Num 11:27-29)

The law on the outside imposed on stony hearts within creates frightened slaves, but not holy saints.
For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!" The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
(Rom 8:15-16)
So God made a promise to fix it by giving men holy natures and hearts:
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
(Eze 36:26-27)

He does not say, 'You might', but 'you shall'. This difference, this new approach would guarantee to produce the righteous conduct that God desires, because we would be 'new creations' in Christ; and furthermore, it would be 'not I, but Christ who lives in me.' The New Covenant life is not about how good man can be by obeying God, but about moving ourselves out of the way so that the nature and heart and will of God can take over and live his life through us. It's the difference between living FOR God, and God living THROUGH us!

There are many scriptures that describe this wonderful relationship and the effect, like;
Heb 13:21 God make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of the One who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One who raised up Christ from the dead shall also make your mortal bodies alive by His Spirit who dwells in you.

But why didn't God do this from the beginning? He knew we couldn't live up to the law with sinful natures. Why give us a holy law and leave us as helpless sinners, hopelessly trying to fulfill it? It was a high bar that we couldn't possibly touch.
Rom 8:7 because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be.
Rom 3:20 because by the works of the Law none of all flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law is the knowledge of sin.
Well that's just great! The whole point of the law was to just give us a knowledge of sin? It was just an acid test to prove to us that we all have fallen short of the glory of God! Why?

Rom 3:21 But now a righteousness of God has been revealed apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets.
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has a boast; but not before God.
Rom 4:7 "Blessed are those whose lawlessnesses are forgiven, and whose sins are covered...blessed is the man to whom the Lord will in no way impute sin."

So God wanted to show the glory of His grace by IMPUTING His own goodness on us, rather than us thinking that anyone could be justified by, or equal God with our own holiness and good works.
But that is just a matter of innocence. God promised to make us able to walk in holiness in order to glorify Him. It only glorifies Him, though, if it is Him doing it through us, and we would never take credit for it in that case. It would all be a matter of grace.
Grace would declare us ‘innocent’ of all law breaking, but grace would also supply us with His Spirit in order to live holy lives ‘in the Spirit’, like we could not live while ‘in the flesh’ and unregenerate.

The question is, then, do we still have a sin nature? Do we have an excuse for sinning after God has placed His holy nature within us? Is it progressive holiness, or are we just outright rebelling against God by deliberate disobedience?
The answer to the question is really in the question itself, because only carnivores eat meat. Sheep eat grass. Sheep love grass, and wolves love meat. It is their nature, their very design to do so. If a wolf is given the heart of a sheep, and he displays a love for grass at first, but is found to one day be munching on a burger, and loving it, then it should be clear that there is no argument. The wolf nature is still present, or this would not be a matter of choice.
Sheep don’t have to wake up in the morning and discourage themselves from eating meat. They don’t have to exercise the discipline of eating grass, no more than a fish has to choose whether to walk on land or remain in the sea.
But these are mere human arguments which mean nothing if God’s word disagrees. We have to know what exactly happen to us when we were born again -John 3:3.
We know that the new heart and the Spirit of God guarantees us to live holy, but did God leave a sin nature within us?

First I’d like to review God’s intention.
Tit 2:14 who gave Himself for us that He might redeem us from all iniquity and purify to Himself a special people, zealous of good works.
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.
1Th 4:7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to be holy.
 
Now, consider that surgical operation that God performed in transplanting our hearts and installing His Spirit.
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Rom 6:1-2)
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Rom 6:6-7)

It's critical to recognize that we are talking about two unnatural contexts here, and they must be studied as such to appreciate and utilize their benefit: Metaphysical, and symbolic.
We know that something metaphysical actually took place; it had to, in order for us to become these strange, heavenly humans that the children of God are; but we also know that Paul is using a lot of metaphors and hyperbole to describe something that because it is metaphysical, cannot possibly be understood in normal human terms. Because of this it is imperative to go back to the Greek to clarify his description, or else we may be guilty of reading things into the text and the event that aren't there.
I know a well know false teacher who said he never sins, simply because 1John 3:6 says that whoever abides in Christ ‘sins not'. I know another who believes Christians don't have to die because Jesus said that ‘whoever believes in me shall never die.'
But John says that if a man says he has no sin, he makes God a liar; and James says that ‘we all offend in many ways.' Jesus assured the disciples that we would die on many occasions, like ‘He who kills you will think he performs a service to God.' So it is important to take these things in context of the whole bible, and to examine the original language.

Now Paul refers to the Old Man, as being the one who was crucified with Christ. But many times he says that ‘we' were crucified with Christ. It is clear that ‘we' never went through a physical crucifixion with or apart from Christ. So it refers to ‘identification' with Christ.
But does it mean that something didn't metaphysically go through this crucifixion? Well, if that means that some spiritual element within us was placed on a cross 2000 years ago, evidently it's too late. But that something metaphysical happened is just as evident, or we would not be new creatures in Christ. After all, the promise in the prophets was that we would be given hearts of flesh, and the spirit of God as well. But a heart of flesh is clearly not physical flesh, nor does it refer to that beating thing in our chests, but to the nature, the character, the motivation, the volition and will, the affections and delights, the conscience and convictions (also referred to as ‘the law of God written on our hearts), all these things encapsulated in a single term.
What, then, could we say is the actual element that was somehow ‘executed’?
First we notice that it is also called the ‘body of sin’ in this verse as other places. Let’s look at some other instances of ‘the old man’ of sin for clarity.
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

Consider the differences between these three uses. In the first Paul says the old man is crucified. Since crucifixion is not meant to instantly kill, it may be suggested that it does not refer to death at all, but rather a state of impotence that likens to one who is powerlessly nailed on a cross.
The second one seems to contradict the first in that Paul is telling saints for whom the old man is crucified, to presently ‘put off’ the old man.
In the third Paul seems to contradict the second by saying they have already put off the old man.
In any case there's a difference between crucifixion, death, and putting off. The way I settled this for myself is that in Romans 6 Paul is speaking of the metaphysical act, the divine, supernatural operation that took place within us in exchanging our natures, and this is something that only involved God's hand alone.
The other two are commands. They are expectations of us to perform in completing the character we are to have as believers. In the first, it speaks to what, or whom we are. The last two speak to what we do. When one is crucified, they are the object of someone else's actions. In putting off the ‘dead body of sin' we are the active subject performing the act. Notice the subsequent verses:
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

The new man cannot be the new ‘nature’ because that was implanted within us by God alone. We can’t do that one. It’s a divine miracle. But we are held accountable for ‘renewing the mind after becoming the new man.
Why would we have to do this if the sin nature was not present? If you would argue that this doesn’t speak of a sin nature, but of our residual thoughts after our conversion that we have to forget how to think, I would agree; but how do we still have sinful thoughts without sin within us to think them? Holy things know only how to be holy. Sinful things only know how to sin.
But as for the crucifixion of the old man, the word used in the Greek that is often translated destroyed, is not that word at all. The only way I could explain it is to include the lexicon:
Transliteration: Katargeo
- Strong's: From G2596 and G691; to be (render) entirely idle (useless) literally or figuratively: - abolish cease cumber deliver destroy do away become (make) of no (none without) effect fail loose bring (come) to nought put away (down) vanish away make void.
Total KJV Occurrences: 25
Of the 25 occurrences, only 5 are destroy or destroyed. But they all speak to making something powerless, just as crucifixion does, though not removing or killing it.

We have to remember other verses that command us to do the present and ongoing slaying of this nature that is supposed to be dead. Jesus told us to take up our cross daily. Rom 12:1,2 commands us to present our bodies as a living sacrifice, and again refers to the renewing of our minds. We cannot be mortifying something that is already dead or removed.

If we still have a living sin nature, it would imply that there would be two, not one, natures opposed to each other by their natural bent, their will, and desires. You would expect them to be at war, and thus forcing us to exercise discipline in order to live according to the new nature that should prevail if we walk by faith. Do we see this in scripture?
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
(Gal 5:16-17)
Furthermore, Paul has begun to include another element as being responsible for our sin. Not only is it the old man, nor the body of sin, but: Now the works of the FLESH are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, (Gal 5:19)
 
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Flesh itself is mere meat, but this isn’t the way the bible uses it. It includes the heart and will and moral composition of these bodies we inhabit. Sin is in our bodies, and until we - our spirits, are removed from them, sin will be present, alive, and active. What is sin? Sin isn’t some physical element, but is the state of our minds and wills. It is the presence of evil itself, of lawlessness; and this is why Jesus said to us: ‘you, being evil.’
This evil presence is not removed just because the Spirit of God is implanted within us. But something had to happen to it in order for us to be empowered to lean toward holiness and obedience to God as we are, even when we knowingly live in sin. Something happens to it that makes it hard for us to sin; and makes us sorry, grieved, and penitent. That something is clearly that our relationship to this thing called sin has changed. Let’s get this clear.
When we were said to be ‘in the flesh’, it was our natural inclination to sin, even if that sin is going to church and feeling righteous in our own eyes because we are relatively better than other sinners. To love God was alien. To care more for what God desires than ourselves was impossible.
The severing of our relation to the ‘old man’ can be likened directly to the living parable of Israel crossing the Red Sea, and seeing the death of the Egyptian army. Now, the Pharaoh is not said to have perished in the sea, but his army did. The army is the thing that enforced the will of the Pharaoh. The task masters enforced labor while they were in Egypt, and the army prevented them from leaving that relationship to the Pharaoh.
But God did for them what they could not do, by eliminating the power that bound them to the ‘old man’ of sin who was in charge. His authority was gone, and any title he kept was merely a token. From that point he could bark out orders to the Jews, but they didn’t have to obey him. What of the task masters who were Jews, and most likely left Egypt with their brothers they once bossed? They didn’t have figurehead to represent anymore, so not only could they be ignored, but they could be slain, cast out, put down.
In our present relationship with sin, we now, if we have faith, are able to ‘reckon ourselves dead to the pharaoh and taskmaster of sin’ and say, ‘yes’ to the New Man - the Holy Spirit who leads us from within. This is walking in the Spirit. We are choosing the New Man, and denying the old, putting him to death by the Spirit. We are gazing into the face of Christ and being changed into His glory day by day. What can this refer to but renewing our mind - the way we think, not just the thoughts themselves; taking Egyptian thoughts captive to obedience to the thoughts of Christ; replacing the old earthly imaginations with things above, where Christ is. It is teaching ourselves and reminding ourselves daily that we are new creations ‘in Christ’, not in the flesh, despite our appearance, and despite the war that goes on inside us.
We cannot listen to our ‘feelings’ or we will be choosing to ‘let sin reign’ in our mortal bodies (Rom 6). Paul goes on to say that we will be willing slaves of the one we obey. So it is possible to sin, and to even live as if we were not born of God, but it is not necessary.
We must acknowledge the fact that, while John says, ‘I tell you these things so that you will not sin’ God would not have left sin in this body unless it were His wise purpose to do so, and that He makes provision for the inevitability that we sin. John goes on to say that ‘if anyone does sin, we have an advocate in Jesus.’
The odd thing is that John says that if we walk in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us of all sin. This is a paradox, because the definition of walking in the light is to not sin. Somehow John does not see it that way, apparently. Walking in the light for John, does not remove us entirely from sin, but his desire is that we will not deliberately sin anyway.

1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.
It’s odd that the same person who wrote these terrifying words, also wrote:
1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life.
The same person who warned:
Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. (Gal 6:7-8); and, And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Gal 5:24,25
Also wrote:
Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

So even the strictest words of scripture is tempered with mercy and grace because our purpose is to glorify the holiness and power of God in us, and to prepare us for eternal life in a holy heaven, as well as to make our constant communion with Him possible; but ultimately it is still only by His work on the cross and His intercession for us daily that saves us. Ideally, we would all be perfectly holy without interruption, but the ideal is rarely more than the exception in this world of evil.
 
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gideons300

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It is clear that the difference between New Covenant saints, and Old Covenant people of God is the New Nature.

Jer 2:7 And I brought you into a plentiful land to enjoy its fruits and its good things. But when you came in, you defiled my land and made my heritage an abomination.
Jer 32:23 And they entered and took possession of it. But they did not obey your voice or walk in your law. They did nothing of all you commanded them to do. Therefore you have made all this disaster come upon them.
But these were people who didn't have the spirit of God dwelling in them - at least, not all of them.

And a young man ran and told Moses, "Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp." And Joshua the son of Nun, the assistant of Moses from his youth, said, "My lord Moses, stop them." But Moses said to him, "Are you jealous for my sake? Would that all the LORD's people were prophets, that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!"
(Num 11:27-29)

The law on the outside imposed on stony hearts within creates frightened slaves, but not holy saints.
For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!" The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
(Rom 8:15-16)
So God made a promise to fix it by giving men holy natures and hearts:
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
(Eze 36:26-27)

He does not say, 'You might', but 'you shall'. This difference, this new approach would guarantee to produce the righteous conduct that God desires, because we would be 'new creations' in Christ; and furthermore, it would be 'not I, but Christ who lives in me.' The New Covenant life is not about how good man can be by obeying God, but about moving ourselves out of the way so that the nature and heart and will of God can take over and live his life through us. It's the difference between living FOR God, and God living THROUGH us!

There are many scriptures that describe this wonderful relationship and the effect, like;
Heb 13:21 God make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of the One who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One who raised up Christ from the dead shall also make your mortal bodies alive by His Spirit who dwells in you.

But why didn't God do this from the beginning? He knew we couldn't live up to the law with sinful natures. Why give us a holy law and leave us as helpless sinners, hopelessly trying to fulfill it? It was a high bar that we couldn't possibly touch.
Rom 8:7 because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be.
Rom 3:20 because by the works of the Law none of all flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law is the knowledge of sin.
Well that's just great! The whole point of the law was to just give us a knowledge of sin? It was just an acid test to prove to us that we all have fallen short of the glory of God! Why?

Rom 3:21 But now a righteousness of God has been revealed apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets.
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has a boast; but not before God.
Rom 4:7 "Blessed are those whose lawlessnesses are forgiven, and whose sins are covered...blessed is the man to whom the Lord will in no way impute sin."

So God wanted to show the glory of His grace by IMPUTING His own goodness on us, rather than us thinking that anyone could be justified by, or equal God with our own holiness and good works.
But that is just a matter of innocence. God promised to make us able to walk in holiness in order to glorify Him. It only glorifies Him, though, if it is Him doing it through us, and we would never take credit for it in that case. It would all be a matter of grace.
Grace would declare us ‘innocent’ of all law breaking, but grace would also supply us with His Spirit in order to live holy lives ‘in the Spirit’, like we could not live while ‘in the flesh’ and unregenerate.

The question is, then, do we still have a sin nature? Do we have an excuse for sinning after God has placed His holy nature within us? Is it progressive holiness, or are we just outright rebelling against God by deliberate disobedience?
The answer to the question is really in the question itself, because only carnivores eat meat. Sheep eat grass. Sheep love grass, and wolves love meat. It is their nature, their very design to do so. If a wolf is given the heart of a sheep, and he displays a love for grass at first, but is found to one day be munching on a burger, and loving it, then it should be clear that there is no argument. The wolf nature is still present, or this would not be a matter of choice.
Sheep don’t have to wake up in the morning and discourage themselves from eating meat. They don’t have to exercise the discipline of eating grass, no more than a fish has to choose whether to walk on land or remain in the sea.
But these are mere human arguments which mean nothing if God’s word disagrees. We have to know what exactly happen to us when we were born again -John 3:3.
We know that the new heart and the Spirit of God guarantees us to live holy, but did God leave a sin nature within us?

First I’d like to review God’s intention.
Tit 2:14 who gave Himself for us that He might redeem us from all iniquity and purify to Himself a special people, zealous of good works.
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.
1Th 4:7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to be holy.
Alpha, kudos on a GREAT post. You are beginning to believe, Neo. :)

Here is one man's take on what you ask.

We are given new natures, but housed still in old bodies. We are told that we still have fleshly bodies but have put off our fleshly natures, amen? Our fleshly nature is to be reckoned as not disabled, nor bound, nor ignored, nor locked in a closet ony to sneak out a few nights a month, but DEAD, right? But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, fleshly BODIES still.


If it were impossible for us to sin, we would not need faith as we would have both new nature and new bodies, but that is not God's plan for us. We both know that without faith it is impossible to please Him and that God asks us hencefore to walk by faith, not by sight.

So....can we sin as new creatures? You bet, IF we choose to call God a liar and keep our unregenerated minds. So what has to happen to us so that we walk pure before Him as light in the Lord and choose every time NOT to give in to sin?. We are told that after we "put off the old man by faith, we then must be renewed in the spirit of our minds and then put on the new man. That is God's order of things. Our minds, how we think of ourselves, must change and radically. We must go from being "sin conscious" to being "righteousness conscious". We must have God convince us that indeed we are new creatures in Christ, not because we see it of feel it, but simply because He tells us we are... and clearly.


We have been fleshly fallen man, wolves eating meat, all our lives, correct? We choose by faith to believe God that we are no longer wolves but sheep. We do not feel like sheep, heck, we do not even LOOK like sheep in the beginning, but God has said we are sheep, brand new creatures in Christ and He asks that we trust Him, lean upon His promises and continue in His word so our minds can be re-newed and we can finally possess what we profess!


All of a sudden, as we steadfastly look away from us and towards Him, to our own amazement, we see fangs being replaced with cud-chewing molars, and fur being replaced by white wool. Soon, meat tastes funny and grass has a strange appeal. Cool!


It is then, when we are truly convinced of the truth of the marvelous things He has told us, PROMISED us, when our minds are fully renewed, that we begin to actually enjoy the benefits of our being new creatures. We walk with an obedience heart as a gift that the new covenant that has clearly been promised us. The yoke is finally an easy one. We find rest, because we have finally ceased from our own labors even as God did from His.


Remember, Paul said "I keep my body under, not I BRING my body under." The difference is monumental. We are given the place of victory and asked to hold onto it, not asked to be ever progressing towards it but never enjoying it.

Why can He ask this of us when our senses seem to scream at us otherwise? Because He is not a man that He should lie. It is simply IMPOSSIBLE for Him to do so and it pleases Him to no end when we simply believe Him. If He has told us we are sheep, by God, we are, fangs or no fangs.


I hope and pray that I do not come across as some super-spiritual answer-man, I certainly know my place, and it is most definitely among "the least of these" but I swear, if God would type right now, He would say "You are not far from the kingdom of God" and I would believe it.


Be blessed, my dear Alpha, and keep walking.

Gideon
 
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stormdancer0

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Still not sure if we are expecting too much all at once. I guess my problem is, I agree with you in theory. That's the way it's supposed to be. But I also acknowledge that my flesh may be dead to the world, but that doesn't mean I don't sin. I don't believe anyone else here can claim to live this way all the time, without falling.

With new believers especially, we have to be careful that we don't overwhelm them with this doctrine. We have to make it clear that no one expects them to perfect their lives, with no sin at all, the minute they accept Christ. There is a learning curve. We are never perfected until this flesh passes away.

But we do have to try. Our salvation is not based on our success, but rather our obedience AND our willingness to come to God when we do fall, and ask for forgiveness. If you guys don't have to do that any more, that's great. I am still fallible and weak, and need forgiveness on a regular basis.
 
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gideons300

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Still not sure if we are expecting too much all at once. I guess my problem is, I agree with you in theory. That's the way it's supposed to be. But I also acknowledge that my flesh may be dead to the world, but that doesn't mean I don't sin. I don't believe anyone else here can claim to live this way all the time, without falling.

With new believers especially, we have to be careful that we don't overwhelm them with this doctrine. We have to make it clear that no one expects them to perfect their lives, with no sin at all, the minute they accept Christ. There is a learning curve. We are never perfected until this flesh passes away.

But we do have to try. Our salvation is not based on our success, but rather our obedience AND our willingness to come to God when we do fall, and ask for forgiveness. If you guys don't have to do that any more, that's great. I am still fallible and weak, and need forgiveness on a regular basis.
There is no doubt there is a learning curve. We must somehow grow from disobedience to obedience. How? Failure. I know at first glance that makes no sense, but we we are transferred from the grip of the old covenant, the law, to the new, we must be taught one concept. It is certain we must first learn what God desires, what the definition of "GOOD" really is, but the next lesson is just as important:


In us dwells no good thing.


There is none good, no not one.


All our righteousness is as filthy rags.


Without Me, you can do nothing.


He must be the potter, we must be clay.


Unless the Lord builds the house (whose house are we), they labor in vain which try to build it.


What must we finally learn from the schoolmater in order to graduate? That we cannot do what God requires unless we have new hearts that do not want to sin, that not only want to obey but CAN obey! If this concept is not mastered, we will spend our entire Christian walk trying to "be good" and like the israelites, die in the wilderness, ever moving forward but never getting anywhere. And that is the real problem with where His bride today is found, trying the best she can to look beautiful for the upcoming wedding, and not realizing He must live inside us doing it through us, for us to be ready to meet Him. We have lost sight of this for 1900 years in the church and in these last days, this is the truth God is restoring to His people to make sure they are truly "without spot or wrinkle."


God's call is clear. holiness.


Little children, these things I write to you that you sin not.

Let all who name the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?


For this is the will of God, even your sanctification.


We have preached a half gospel, forgiveness of sins, and it is wonderful, but there is more. God wants to change us into His likeness, to become, through the power of the indwelling Spirit, to "little Christs", which is what the word Christian really means.


Sister, you are right, our salvation MUST produce obedience. It is not about "works", it is all about Lordship. Jesus said:

"Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord' and do not do the things I command you?"

Somehow, our definition of Grace has erased that requirement. God owns us and wants to rule and reign in our lives, so....we must ask ourselves, are we REALLY obeying? Is He not only savior, but Lord of my life? Am I completely off my throne and living solely to please Him? Is it no more I that live but He living in me?

Yes, thank God for forgiveness, but at some point, we have to ask ourselves "Am I making any headway? Do I see I am more and more obedient, more and more Christ-like, with victory over sins big and small? If not, we need to seek for an answer, on our faces if needs be. It is THAT important. Our hearts are the heart of the matter. Are they ours....or HIS? They cannot be both.


But where have we all settled?


Well, no one is perfect, we are only human. Do the best you can and God will make up the difference with the blood of Christ.


Do we realize how dangerous this is? The master in the parable of the talents, after taking away the free gift from the one who made no gain, said this and it bears us listening to.

"Then bring all those who would not have me to reign over them, and say them before me."

New believer do not yet understsnd the huge iissue of Lordship, but it should not be an issue for mature believers, yet it is. Saints who have served Him for years are still walking in self "with God's help" of course. We must understsnd, we must be taken out of the equation, We must die, but instead we are all found half-heartedly "trying to die" and never dying ,as unbelief in the promises of God become entrenched inside us.

We find ourselves still in Romans 7 and the scary thing is many do not even cry out "O wretched man that I am". They are quite content to remain fleshly sinners saved by grace. God help us.


We must fianlly understand that if we are not walking in our nature, we cannot please God. Paul tells us:

"They that are in the flesh cannot please God."

So what shall we do? We must cast our righteousness away as filthy rags and ask jesus for the new heart He has promised, a brand new nature. And when we ask, we must RECEIVE it, not based upon what we see or feeel, but because of God's promise to give us bread if we simply ask, becaue H eis a good Father!


We must, by faith alone, put off the old nature, realizing it cannot be improved and we are fooling ourselves if we beieve it can. We must put on the new nature by faith as well, and when satan comes accusing, we can stand with our shield of faith and say "Yes, satan, that WAS me, but no more. I am a new creature in Christ"

Sister, it really works.

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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Alpha, kudos on a GREAT post. You are beginning to believe, Neo. :)

Here is one man's take on what you ask.

We are given new natures, but housed still in old bodies. We are told that we still have fleshly bodies but have put off our fleshly natures, amen? Our fleshly nature is to be reckoned as not disabled, nor bound, nor ignored, nor locked in a closet ony to sneak out a few nights a month, but DEAD, right? But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, fleshly BODIES still.

Oh! You're killing me!

If it were impossible for us to sin, we would not need faith as we would have both new nature and new bodies, but that is not God's plan for us. We both know that without faith it is impossible to please Him and that God asks us hencefore to walk by faith, not by sight.

So....can we sin as new creatures? You bet, IF we choose to call God a liar and keep our unregenerated minds. So what has to happen to us so that we walk pure before Him as light in the Lord and choose every time NOT to give in to sin?. We are told that after we "put off the old man by faith, we then must be renewed in the spirit of our minds and then put on the new man. That is God's order of things. Our minds, how we think of ourselves, must change and radically. We must go from being "sin conscious" to being "righteousness conscious". We must have God convince us that indeed we are new creatures in Christ, not because we see it of feel it, but simply because He tells us we are... and clearly.


Exactly, exactly, exactly. I remember when I was brand new, the brethren used to always stress Rom 12:1,2, and the Greek word for transform - metamorphasis. Even a baby can understand that illustration. So I used to go around saying that I was a butterfly in the making! It was such a powerful and precious thought to dwell on.



Remember, Paul said "I keep my body under, not I BRING my body under." The difference is monumental. We are given the place of victory and asked to hold onto it, not asked to be ever progressing towards it but never enjoying it.

This is so true, and it is most evident when we are first saved! We know all the right things to do instinctively. We witness out of joy, not guilt. We are joyful because the spirit fills us, not because we are commanded to be. We avoid sin like the plague because we don't want to do anything to lose that precious new communion, nor that joy. Everything is in place without ever doing any works to get it; but time and devils and sin... and it becomes a constant battle, a war rather than a new discovery.
 
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Still not sure if we are expecting too much all at once.
With new believers especially, we have to be careful that we don't overwhelm them with this doctrine. We have to make it clear that no one expects them to perfect their lives, with no sin at all, the minute they accept Christ. There is a learning curve. We are never perfected until this flesh passes away.
But we do have to try. Our salvation is not based on our success, but rather our obedience AND our willingness to come to God when we do fall, and ask for forgiveness. If you guys don't have to do that any more, that's great. I am still fallible and weak, and need forgiveness on a regular basis.

I totally agree 100%, sis. I thought I conveyed that. That was the whole point of my post! Once again, it was probably over-thought and under communicated. My point was that because we have two opposing natures, rather than one holy nature (something that unbelievers will never understand) it will be impossible to either walk instantly into perfection, or to arrive at it even in a lifetime. The Daniels and Jobs are an exception -and John the Baptist- and they were made, not developed. When we read stories like the resolutions that Jonathan Edwards made all his life to arrive at some measure of holiness, it is evident that we are in a battle that cannot be easily won or maintained.
I identify more with the Davids and Hezikiahs.
I also think the focus should be the love of God and for him. Holiness cannot be a laboratory of sterile works. Jesus told us to BE perfect as the Father, not to DO perfectly. The heart of God is our focus, and the works are His product through us from intimacy.
 
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/QUOTE]

Oddly, I very much agree with this 100% as well.
I think it's that kick in the butt that we need, especially as a church - that shock to wake us up.
I have a confession, in order to illustrate. I've been a bulimic since I was 18. I only have occasional episodes now; but throughout my 20's I was buying $50 of food, cooking it all at once, then sitting down with a huge tupperware bowl and binging- purging, binging-purging, until I wore myself out and fell asleep. 10 times a day was the norm.
I saw a counselor who told me I must pay all my income and move into a therapy house, but I wanted to buy a car. (Youth and priorities, you know). I insisted to her that I was doing a lot better, and going to the gym was helping.
How many times did you purge yesterday, she asked.
Only 6 times, I answered proudly. She looked me dead in the eyes, and it seems she held my head in her hands, though she didn't, but she said firmly, 'That - is not - normal!' I literally had an epiphany at that very moment, as her words, just those 4 words pierced through the callous of having lived that way for so long, gradually declining. I woke out of a slumber of consciousness, and every time I looked in the mirror I found myself saying, 'Yeah, that's not normal! That's not normal! What was I thinking?! People don't throw up everything they eat!' Sin can become such a familiar thing that the cycle of sin, repent, despair, sin, unconsciously becomes a lifestyle and we no longer even see that it isn't normal for a saint. What is God going to have to do to wake us up? Me firstly.
 
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gideons300

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/QUOTE]

Oddly, I very much agree with this 100% as well.
I think it's that kick in the butt that we need, especially as a church - that shock to wake us up.
I have a confession, in order to illustrate. I've been a bulimic since I was 18. I only have occasional episodes now; but throughout my 20's I was buying $50 of food, cooking it all at once, then sitting down with a huge tupperware bowl and binging- purging, binging-purging, until I wore myself out and fell asleep. 10 times a day was the norm.
I saw a counselor who told me I must pay all my income and move into a therapy house, but I wanted to buy a car. (Youth and priorities, you know). I insisted to her that I was doing a lot better, and going to the gym was helping.
How many times did you purge yesterday, she asked.
Only 6 times, I answered proudly. She looked me dead in the eyes, and it seems she held my head in her hands, though she didn't, but she said firmly, 'That - is not - normal!' I literally had an epiphany at that very moment, as her words, just those 4 words pierced through the callous of having lived that way for so long, gradually declining. I woke out of a slumber of consciousness, and every time I looked in the mirror I found myself saying, 'Yeah, that's not normal! That's not normal! What was I thinking?! People don't throw up everything they eat!' Sin can become such a familiar thing that the cycle of sin, repent, despair, sin, unconsciously becomes a lifestyle and we no longer even see that it isn't normal for a saint. What is God going to have to do to wake us up? Me firstly.
Alpha, I remember the story of Ai. The Israelites had just experienced the amazing victory at Jericho. Next was the small city of Ai. They got their behinds handed to them. Why? Two reasons.


1) Confidence in self- They sent a smaller force since they had taken down Jericho and Ai was much smaller so they assumed the power was in their weapons, in themselves.


2) There was sin in the camp...ONE sin. A man kept back booty from Jericho and it was against what God told them to do, to burn it all.


One sin! This is the thing- we have forgotten how to blush and break before Him for sin, repetitive sin, inside us, years of it. As the prophet said, we use grace as a covering so we might add sin to sin. Our hearts are not broken in the least. We do not even attempt to resist unto blood, striving against sin and since everyone else is "not perfect" and "only human" like us, we assume it must be OK to walk the way we are walking, one foot in the kingdom and one foot in our old flesh, and think we are safe. We are so blind that we think somehow we will get a "well done" at the judgement seat. We know there will be those shocked to hear they did not get in....SHOCKED...but we never assume it was us He is referring to.

We, like the Laodecian church, have been blinded to our grave situation. and although we are not doing "great", hey, we are doing ok, right? We "know not" that we as His bride are poor and blind and naked and wretched in His eyes. Oh, that we might see, and repent, and yield, and believe His promises with everything in us!

I used to live in Lousiana and have a good brother who still lives there. We talked the other night and he said our church, a BIG, well known non-denominational church had a "men's night" with 2000 attending. It centered on inappropriate content and how it is decimating God's church. As a former inappropriate content addict I can identify. At the end of the evening, they had an alter call and over 1200 came forward for prayer. 60%!! But we are ok, right?


When do we finally admit that something is drastically wrong with our understanding of Christianity and cry out like the man in the temple weeping out loud, "God, be merciful to me a sinner!"

Alpha, I am convinced the root sin is love of self. We do not want to give up control of the rulership, the Lordship of our lives to the one who bought us. Is inappropriate content bad? Of course. Is worldiness adultery to God? Yes. But there is a deeper sin and it is that we are refusing to bend the knee and tell him that we MUST be freed from the grip of self, for that is the only way to stop sinning, for without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. If only the weight of those eight words would sink in and bring us to our knees to believe for a new nature we so desperately need. Our lives, our eternal souls depend on it. We shoud be foundd desperate for the answer, but instead we sit in our jail cells called the flesh, pardons in hand and keep on living as we always have. May God open eyes.


There is a terrifying scripture, one never preached in a church to my knowledge, and it is found in Luke 19. In the parable of the talents, the master had just taken away from the one who made no gain, who lived his own life and simply hid what the master had entruted to him, doing nothing with it, making zero gain from it.

These are the words the master then spoke, and they came from the mouth of the Son of God to warn us.

"Then bring all those who would not have me to reign over them, and slay them before me."


There is a HUGE elephant in the room and no one wants to rock the boat, to discuss it, to warn others. We want our nice little lives untouched by the radical call Jesus has made to us, to walk as strangers and pilgrims, sojourners in this life, having put on the new man and cast off the fleshly nature that will soon be judged. There is something amiss with our Christianity. There is sin in the camp, and we need look not further than the issue of Lordship.

Who is our God- us or the Lord of the Universe who bought us with His own blood? Who OWNS us? It will come down to whether or not we truly hate our life, our old fleshly nature. How can we be found content with sins big and small inside us, rebellion, rebelliuon, rebellion and yet walk confidently into the House of God week after week, with no remorese, no fear? HOW? Our lives spit on His blood sacrifice and scream out "My way Lord, not yours, but I get Heaven, right?" God help us. God awake us!

Revival is coming, but it will be preceeded by massive repentance and buckets of tears. Sackcloth and ashes may seem passee, but that needs to be our lot.

Our eternal souls depend on it, and let us not be fooled by any man who says otherwise.

We are prisoners to sin if we are sinning regularly. Slaves is the word Jesus Himself used. We MUST be free, it is not optional, but how very few cries out for that freedom..... yet.

Live, bones, live!

Gideon
 
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seeingeyes

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...what the definition of "GOOD" really is...

This has been such a struggle for me. Of course I know what "good" is! Everyone does! It's just common sense, right? Nope.

"The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him." (Prov 18:17)

And boy did God give me the questions!
 
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You're absolutely right, brother. It's killing me so I know it's what I need to hear. I don't mean to detract from it in anyway either, when I say that holiness should not be a burden, although it is going to require our death - the death of our whole self, our ego, our 'I want', our plans for family, career, love, neighborhood, dream homes, total consciousness of ourselves whether it is the things we like or even don't like. We must forget ourselves in the presence of our Maker. We must painfully decrease as we see him increase more and more. But why? Is it because we are nothing more than moral slaves of God?
No. We must not be so concentrated on our moral obligation that we see nothing more than our falling short of his glory, because that would only produce a guilt-ridden, despondent collection of suicidal people who cannot see God as more than a bully - the kind who sits in heaven waiting for someone to sneeze so he can throw lightning bolts at them. That kind of guilt strips a person of the power of God to overcome the very sins that make them feel guilty in the first place! Satan would like nothing, I repeat, nothing more than to discourage us into giving up, and finishing our lives in secret cycles of sin and despair, beating ourselves up for being such worthless failures to God.
See, I know that God's called people really don't want to sin against Him. I know it. I also know that the church has taught self-righteousness in the place of God dwelling in us and through us for so long, that they don't have a clue how the mystery of godliness works anymore. They think they are in a competition for who can look the most innocent in church, appearing to have no struggles at all. They are afraid to confess because everyone is watching and keeping up that same illusion. I know people struggle, and the example of the men's convention is just a microcosm of proof.
But how shall we address the issue? By abusing people with the rod of His wrath? They won't listen because they already have too much guilt. They really do. The spirit won't let them rest because he promised not to. We have to tell them that God never intended for them to do it, and that the only road is the Calvary Road, the road of death to the flesh, the self. Jesus said it all when He said we have to deny ourselves and take up crosses. Crosses represent a slow, drawn out process, not instant death. It is a constant beating. The flesh will cry out, just like the Canaanites rose up the more they were beaten, but the Holy Spirit has already promised us the land of this moral victory, and even those sinful addictions that we don't feel totally free from, we can subdue and control with forced tribute. We can't be lax or complacent. Killing, crosses, mortification - these are not kindergarten terms. They speak to how serious the fight is, and how radical our approach has to be. Even if we must gouge out our eyes, we must take them seriously. But again, why? To be perfect at last? To boast? To be happy about ourselves? To delight in the freedom from those heavy chains of guilt and habit? No. But because God loves us. He doesn't love us in order to make us feel guilty. He loves us so we can fellowship and commune with Him. He loves us so much, that even though so many of us grieve His heart (me worse than anyone, believe me), He is not content to love us from afar, but insists on enduring the ongoing pain after the cross, of dwelling in these very bodies of ours, not only to empower us, but to share our consciousness. He died, not to just make us pretty little paragons of perfection, but to have eternal intimacy with us. He died in order to birth children. It can be said that when Christ was on the cross, he was actually crying out in childbirth, as he gave birth to us poor, pathetic, spirit grieving sinners, which he desires to convert into creatures fit for His holy kingdom. He's our Father before all things. Jesus went out of His way to tell us that. 'I won't have to pray for you, He said. You can ask the Father too. For the first time in history, God told us that we are to address Him in prayer as 'Our Father'.
I pray that no matter how much it hurts to become the holy children of God who imitate their Father, this love, this grace, this desire to be intimate with God and conform to the beloved image of His Son who died to ransom us, will be the single and central motivation. The grace of God leads us to repentance. Satan is the Accuser of the brethren. What he says is true, but guess whose on your side? The very God who judges us. He who SPARED NOT, who spared not... His precious Son; how will he not along with Him give us all things, including the power and spirit of holiness.
I think the more positive and effective approach, rather than layer after layer of guilt, though not ignoring God's unapologetic demand that we be holy, is to make people see how much better, fulfilling, and delightful, and appropriate for the children of God it will be to when we finally say, 'Okay, Lord. Yes. Yes to all you command. I'm scared, but yes. It's yours. I love you more than anything, everything, and my own life. If I don't, then please create that love in me. Do whatever it takes. Take whatever is necessary. Just fill me with yourself. I'm so empty. I don't know what you intended for my life, but from this moment forward, take it and do anything you must in order to make me according to Your desire and plan, so help me God.'
 
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gideons300

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You're absolutely right, brother. It's killing me so I know it's what I need to hear. I don't mean to detract from it in anyway either, when I say that holiness should not be a burden, although it is going to require our death - the death of our whole self, our ego, our 'I want', our plans for family, career, love, neighborhood, dream homes, total consciousness of ourselves whether it is the things we like or even don't like. We must forget ourselves in the presence of our Maker. We must painfully decrease as we see him increase more and more. But why? Is it because we are nothing more than moral slaves of God?
No. We must not be so concentrated on our moral obligation that we see nothing more than our falling short of his glory, because that would only produce a guilt-ridden, despondent collection of suicidal people who cannot see God as more than a bully - the kind who sits in heaven waiting for someone to sneeze so he can throw lightning bolts at them. That kind of guilt strips a person of the power of God to overcome the very sins that make them feel guilty in the first place! Satan would like nothing, I repeat, nothing more than to discourage us into giving up, and finishing our lives in secret cycles of sin and despair, beating ourselves up for being such worthless failures to God.
See, I know that God's called people really don't want to sin against Him. I know it. I also know that the church has taught self-righteousness in the place of God dwelling in us and through us for so long, that they don't have a clue how the mystery of godliness works anymore. They think they are in a competition for who can look the most innocent in church, appearing to have no struggles at all. They are afraid to confess because everyone is watching and keeping up that same illusion. I know people struggle, and the example of the men's convention is just a microcosm of proof.
But how shall we address the issue? By abusing people with the rod of His wrath? They won't listen because they already have too much guilt. They really do. The spirit won't let them rest because he promised not to. We have to tell them that God never intended for them to do it, and that the only road is the Calvary Road, the road of death to the flesh, the self. Jesus said it all when He said we have to deny ourselves and take up crosses. Crosses represent a slow, drawn out process, not instant death. It is a constant beating. The flesh will cry out, just like the Canaanites rose up the more they were beaten, but the Holy Spirit has already promised us the land of this moral victory, and even those sinful addictions that we don't feel totally free from, we can subdue and control with forced tribute. We can't be lax or complacent. Killing, crosses, mortification - these are not kindergarten terms. They speak to how serious the fight is, and how radical our approach has to be. Even if we must gouge out our eyes, we must take them seriously. But again, why? To be perfect at last? To boast? To be happy about ourselves? To delight in the freedom from those heavy chains of guilt and habit? No. But because God loves us. He doesn't love us in order to make us feel guilty. He loves us so we can fellowship and commune with Him. He loves us so much, that even though so many of us grieve His heart (me worse than anyone, believe me), He is not content to love us from afar, but insists on enduring the ongoing pain after the cross, of dwelling in these very bodies of ours, not only to empower us, but to share our consciousness. He died, not to just make us pretty little paragons of perfection, but to have eternal intimacy with us. He died in order to birth children. It can be said that when Christ was on the cross, he was actually crying out in childbirth, as he gave birth to us poor, pathetic, spirit grieving sinners, which he desires to convert into creatures fit for His holy kingdom. He's our Father before all things. Jesus went out of His way to tell us that. 'I won't have to pray for you, He said. You can ask the Father too. For the first time in history, God told us that we are to address Him in prayer as 'Our Father'.
I pray that no matter how much it hurts to become the holy children of God who imitate their Father, this love, this grace, this desire to be intimate with God and conform to the beloved image of His Son who died to ransom us, will be the single and central motivation. The grace of God leads us to repentance. Satan is the Accuser of the brethren. What he says is true, but guess whose on your side? The very God who judges us. He who SPARED NOT, who spared not... His precious Son; how will he not along with Him give us all things, including the power and spirit of holiness.
I think the more positive and effective approach, rather than layer after layer of guilt, though not ignoring God's unapologetic demand that we be holy, is to make people see how much better, fulfilling, and delightful, and appropriate for the children of God it will be to when we finally say, 'Okay, Lord. Yes. Yes to all you command. I'm scared, but yes. It's yours. I love you more than anything, everything, and my own life. If I don't, then please create that love in me. Do whatever it takes. Take whatever is necessary. Just fill me with yourself. I'm so empty. I don't know what you intended for my life, but from this moment forward, take it and do anything you must in order to make me according to Your desire and plan, so help me God.'
Alpha, here is my fear. I fear you will look at me as some super-spiritual "know-it-all" if I keep sharing things that I feel will help you overcome your thoughts that may actually hold you back from victory. But my love for you and desire to help overrides my fears, LOL, so ready?

Read in Romans 6. When Paul tells us to reckon ourselves dead indeed unto sin and alive unto Him, and tells us to do it as Christ did, how did Christ die? We are told He died once to sin, right? Then Paul tells us an amazing thing. He says that in the same way, Christ died to sin, we are told to reckon ourselves dead! ONCE!

Brother, do you see? We are not to try to die to self through a painful crucifixion of the flesh. We died with Him! That is the good news! We are not asked to become some ascetics disciplining our bodies into subjection. Can the flesh cast out flesh? Can a man cruify himself? Who pounds in the last nail in the second hand?

When Jesus said that we must [ick up our cross and follow Him, He asks us to believe we did just that! We are to "know" that we are dead, not needing to die. What has to still die in us is the mentality you speak of, that it will be this long painful process of self denial. Are we called to deny ourselves? No doubt! And what does that mean? We are to look away from the filthy rags we call our righteousness, our commitment, our self discipline and LOOK AT THE SERPENT ON THE CROSS and be healed!

Do you see why this amazing covenant is called the gospel? GOOD NEWS!

We do not have to die. Wheh He died, so did we. It is finished! Such a simple concept, like Naaman having to dip in the Jordan 7 times to be healed of his leprosy, a "type" of sin. Naaman fought this simple instruction but thank God, he had a faithful friend to counsel him. "If he had told you something hard to do, would you bot have done it? He has told you something simple, so .........do it!"

He did, was healed and that was that. Never forget the main way we stumble is to ignore the obvious, that God means what He says. How often we lean o our wisdom, our logic. Not very logical to dip in a muddy river to be healed of a fatal disease, but it worked. How often our enemy tries to sway us frm the simplicity of the gospel. It is not to the wise, nor to the strong but to the meek and the weak. Will you please qualify and stop making it difficult??? LOL

I know you know the scrpiture but when they said "We will run with the swift, God answered and said "Then they that pursue you will be swift."

I will say it again....and again if necessary. Our problem is NOT that we are to0o weak, it is that we are too strong. His strength is made perfect.....how? In weakness.

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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Can one of you tell me in one sentence what it is you are disagreeing on? You seem to be on the same page, but each of you thinks the other isn't.
Please be patient with me and tell me what I'm missing.;)

Thank God for you. Someone else sees what I see. You don't see me disagreeing, do you? No matter what I say, it is always wrong in the eyes of my brother in every single post I make. This is becoming too frustrating, so I have to let him go.
When someone agrees with you, and you still are criticizing them, something is seriously wrong! I feel like the purpose isn't to make a point but to manipulate me by making me feel that I cannot say anything correct. But I can see truth for myself. I have the Holy Spirit who teaches me. So it is clear what is really going on. Thank you for an objective witness to it. I have been praying all night over the matter.
 
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