Communication and dead saints

Define dead. Biologically? Spiritually? Both?

And does it apply to the cases in question?

Just admit that praying to God in Jesus name is enough. Case closed.

Saints are not dead. To be in Heaven is to be more alive than those on Earth

The term "pray" means to ask - this is what is meant when it is said one "prays to" the Saints.

To ask anyone to pray for us is to "pray them" to pray on our behalf.

We are all united in Christ, and none in Him are dead.

youngdisciplectl3 said:

So it is okay to try to speak to dead people like mediums do as long as they are dead Christians?

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What do mediums and conjuring have to do with being absent from the body and present with the Lord, Jesus Christ

youngdisciplectl3 said:

Is speaking to someone communication?

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No.
In fact communication requires 'both ends', not just one (speaking).

Is it a sin to speak to/ pray to dead people?

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I don't, so I haven't considered this question.

Is it a sin to pray to/ speak to dead saints?

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No.

Can dead saints hear our prayers?

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If it is God's will that they do.

Is praying to Jesus enough?

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The body of Christ is the body Of Christ.
I worship God, and any form of prayer to God is worship.
Asking someone anything is not always worship, though.

How did Jesus teach us to pray?

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The Greek NT uses aprox. five different terms that can (and have) been translated "pray".
Christ said, "when you pray/proseuxisthe, say this ..." and then gives the Lord's Prayer. (So we continue to pray these words used by Christ, as He said to.)
But there are different words used for "pray" that are applied to humans.

Here is a question: if you do not "pray/proseuxomai" to God, but just "ask" Him something, is the asking still prayer ?

When I say dead I mean physically dead. Also please answer all question in your first post if you would like to participate. Much appreciated!!!

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Paul was clear: to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8). How can one be present with the author of life (God) and be dead

See also Hebrews 12

numbering added by me said:

1.Is speaking to someone communication?

2.Is it a sin to speak to/ pray to dead people?

3.Is it a sin to pray to/ speak to dead saints?

4.Can dead saints hear our prayers?

5.Is praying to Jesus enough?

6.How did Jesus teach us to pray?

When I say dead I mean physically dead.

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1. Yes, speaking to someone is communication.

2. It is not a sin to speak to someone who is physically dead, unless you are trying to do conjurations or other medium-esque "talk back to me" type things. I mean, it's not a sin to stand over your mother/father/best friend/siblings/other important person's grave and cry and go "I MISS YOU SO MUCH MOM/DAD/BOB/SIS/ETC! WHY DID YOU HAVE TO DIE?".

3. No, it is not.

4. I believe they can, because while they are physically dead, they fall under those who are referred to in the Bible as having merely fallen asleep, and are alive with the Lord, awaiting the Resurrection of the Body.

5. DON"T JUMP ON THIS ANSWER UNTIL YOU READ THE WHOLE SET OF ANSWERS TO FIVE AND SIX!
Praying to Jesus is not enough. There is also a Father and a Holy Spirit. I mean, if you're going to ask...
6. how did Jesus teach us to pray, He gave to us the Our Father (Luke 11:2-4/Matthew 6:9-13), not the Our Jesus And Only Jesus. Jesus also taught us to pray quietly, not loudly on the street as the hypocrits do, as well as directing our prayers to the Father. We are also to ask, as the ones who persistently ask receive. (Luke 11:5-13). We are to make peace with each other before we present gifts to the Lord (Matthew 5:21-24). And we are taught in Matthew 18:19-20 that when even two or three gather to ask of the Father, God will be there.

And while it is not what Jesus personally taught, we see in Ephesians 6:18, we are to pray in the Spirit, and praying for all the saints (although, admittedly, probably not quite the same meaning as you were using. But still, most of those who were living saints then are dead saints now). James 5:14-19 tells us about times when there are specifically to be group prayers, and that we are to confess our sins to each other and pray for each other. And since the saints are our brethren, our community, it is right and proper to pray to them to ask them to pray for us, and it is proper that they pray for us from where they are. And since multiple people praying for something definitely puts us into Matthew 18:19-20 territory, for while the physically dead saints may no longer have bodies, they are still with us as part of the Church in spirit.

Also, keep in mind that prayers to the saints are always along the lines of:
Please pray to God for me for X thing on my behalf.
Please intercede with God for me.
Please help me with this thing thru the Lord.

You get the idea. Praying to the saints isn't asking the SAINTS to help us, it is asking the saints to pray for us as well for the help we desire.

Metherion

youngdisciplectl3 said:

So it is okay to try to speak to dead people like mediums do as long as they are dead Christians?

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How would you know whom you are speaking with? How would you know it isn't the Devil?

We'll Jesus's example was pray to the Father. We also know that absent with the body means present with the Lord. We know we have a cloud of witnesses as the previous chapter of Romans tells us who they were. I know the Trinity has the ability to hear us from this physical realm to the spiritual and can respond. I do not know if the saints go on possess the same abilities as the Trinity to hear us in this realm. The prayers ascend to the throne. Maybe the Holy Spirit delivers to each saint. I know in heaven there is no need for prayer in that realm..They rejoice when
a soul is born again so they communicate directly. Personally, I just stick to communicating to the Father/Son/HS.

youngdisciplectl3 said:

Is speaking to someone communication?

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Yes.

Is it a sin to speak to/ pray to dead people?

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Probably not, but it is useless and an improper practice.

Is it a sin to pray to/ speak to dead saints?

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That's the same question for all intents and purposes.

Can dead saints hear our prayers?

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There's no reason to think they can.

Is praying to Jesus enough?

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Or to the Father. Absolutely.

How did Jesus teach us to pray?

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"Our Father...." He also said to ask the Father anything.

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Theres one, Jesus said if two agree ON EARTH, unless you know someone else (elsewhere) is agreeing with ya.

CrusadersSword said:

That is mixing apples and oranges. Jesus told us what to ask for when praying to God, but that has nothing to do with the fact that the Bible tells Christians to pray for each other.


So I take it you will never ask anyone to pray for you then? Because thats pretty much what you are saying.

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Sure Paul even said to those who could hear/read his letters to pray for Him. Sure I have asked those I
can directly communicate with to pray for different things over the years. Believe me if I would have
read in the original apostles writings of say Paul teaching on sending a prayer to Stephen after he was martyred, I would address prayers to christians that have left this earthly realm..

I just finished reading Randy Alcorn's book "Lord Foulgrin's Letters". A modern day version of CS Lewis's Screwtape Letters, but not as good (by his own admission, Lewis wrote a classic after all).

But interesting. Hate to ruin it for those who haven't read it, so spoiler alert, read no farther if you plan to read it and don't want to know how it ends up.

STOP HERE IN OTHER WORDS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW HOW IT ENDS.



Randy Alcorn, evangelical author, standard evangelical statement of faith

Official website of author Randy Alcorn - Eternal Perspective Ministries


The main character dies. His wife and children have this conversation and prayer.

"Would you pray, Jilly?" Diane asked.

"I'll...try. Okay, God, this is Jillian. Mom and Daniel and I are sitting here at the table. Dad's gone. I guess he's right there with You; that's what the pastor says, what the Bible says, I guess. Tell Daddy we miss him, would You? Tell him he wish---" Her voice broke. "We wish he were still here."

She paused, tears falling on her dinner plate. Diane took over.

"Maybe Jordan can see us, Lord, but would You tell him the church is taking good care of us? Ryan and Jodi and people we don't even know keep bringing meals, and somebody's helping with all the details. Tell him I'm too tired to do anything now except read the Bible he gave me.

"I don't know how this works, God, but can I talk to Jordan for just a second? Jordan, it's me, Diane. The last thing you said is 'I'll see you at home'. I kept asking God why He didn't let that happen. Then today I realized it's going to happen. I'll see you at home, like you said; it's just that you got home before I did, and instead of me waiting for you here, you're waiting for me there. Anyway, I miss you so much... but we'll be okay. I don't want you to worry about us." She stifled a laugh. "I suppose, nobody worries there, huh?

"Anyway, God, I'm talking to You again. Thanks for watching out for us, me and Jilly and Daniel, and the baby. If you really do send angels, we're going to need a bunch of them to get through this. We can't make it on our own."

So, is this a a feasible way for a prayer to go from an evangelical perspective? If not, what exactly would be the problem with it?

narnia59 said:

So, is this a a feasible way for a prayer to go from an evangelical perspective? If not, what exactly would be the problem with it?

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Thanks for sharing. I am watching to see if "Heaven is for real" audio book.
I see the're praying to the Lord and asking a request to do that. It didn't
seem like she was making a request directly to him from this realm. This is just a story, correct ?

HisKid1973 said:

Thanks for sharing. I am watching to see if "Heaven is for real" audio book.
I see the're praying to the Lord and asking a request to do that. It didn't
seem like she was making a request directly to him from this realm. This is just a story, correct ?

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Yes, it's just a story.

I have a friend who tells God to kiss her father(deceased) for her.

I tell my mother(deceased) all the time that I love her and miss her.

Are those two substantively different?

HisKid1973 said:

Thanks for sharing. I am watching to see if "Heaven is for real" audio book.
I see the're praying to the Lord and asking a request to do that. It didn't
seem like she was making a request directly to him from this realm. This is just a story, correct ?

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And while it is 'just a story', it certainly is a story that reflects the views of this pastor in terms of Christianity....