Can you be specific?

lovenotwar

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A lot of times since I was first reborn, I have heard so many answers to my spiritual struggles that were... I don't know, flaky, fluffy, vague, ...ethereal.
What I mean is it seems like sometimes we forget what it was like to be sinners or to struggle with sin or depression or anything. Either that or we just don't really have a clue ourselves what scripture offers as answers to our practical problems.
I asked an old, respected elder in church years ago, 'How do I overcome entangling sin?' Now, I was reaching out desperately as a testosterone plagued young male, surrounded by beautiful sisters who were (though I had no idea at the time) struggling just like me; but all he had to answer was, with a very... spiritual air in his expression (for lack of a better description), 'Abiiiide in Jesus, brother, abiiiide in Jesus.'
I got so angry, though out of respect and disgust I remained silent, I wanted to exclaim, 'That's it?! That's your great, spiritual answer after decades of Christan life and leadership and generations of children brought up in church?! That is how you maintain a spiritual life?!!!'
So for the longest time I fought to tread spiritual water and keep my head up as one person after another offered me these vague answers. There was not one ounce of specific counsel or direction.
The bible speaks in such celestial terms - the parables of Jesus, some of his sayings like, 'He who does not eat my flesh or drink my blood has no part in me.' That's great for someone who has 'arrived', I suppose, but for someone who is really seeking direction for their lives, it doesn't provide much of a practical list to approach, let alone what it means.
My heart breaks for people who show up here reaching out like this, who obviously have heard enough of those kind of answers at church.
If we have practical answers - step by step, with substance, not just some philosophical sounding scriptures, then we should give specific, practical counsel.
 

x141

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I have found our minds vale Truth that is ever present all around us.

Exo 20:25-26 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it. Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.
 
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gideons300

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A lot of times since I was first reborn, I have heard so many answers to my spiritual struggles that were... I don't know, flaky, fluffy, vague, ...ethereal.
What I mean is it seems like sometimes we forget what it was like to be sinners or to struggle with sin or depression or anything. Either that or we just don't really have a clue ourselves what scripture offers as answers to our practical problems.
I asked an old, respected elder in church years ago, 'How do I overcome entangling sin?' Now, I was reaching out desperately as a testosterone plagued young male, surrounded by beautiful sisters who were (though I had no idea at the time) struggling just like me; but all he had to answer was, with a very... spiritual air in his expression (for lack of a better description), 'Abiiiide in Jesus, brother, abiiiide in Jesus.'
I got so angry, though out of respect and disgust I remained silent, I wanted to exclaim, 'That's it?! That's your great, spiritual answer after decades of Christan life and leadership and generations of children brought up in church?! That is how you maintain a spiritual life?!!!'
So for the longest time I fought to tread spiritual water and keep my head up as one person after another offered me these vague answers. There was not one ounce of specific counsel or direction.
The bible speaks in such celestial terms - the parables of Jesus, some of his sayings like, 'He who does not eat my flesh or drink my blood has no part in me.' That's great for someone who has 'arrived', I suppose, but for someone who is really seeking direction for their lives, it doesn't provide much of a practical list to approach, let alone what it means.
My heart breaks for people who show up here reaching out like this, who obviously have heard enough of those kind of answers at church.
If we have practical answers - step by step, with substance, not just some philosophical sounding scriptures, then we should give specific, practical counsel.
Ok, ready for some counsel that is specific? LOL. Buckle your seatbelt.

Who are we in our own mind? Are we a fleshly man trying to get victory...victory over sin, or depression, or rebellion, or _________ (fill in the blank) OR are we new creations, new man, planted in HIS victory, and have reckoned ourself dead indeed unto sin as Paul clearly told us to do? Why is this important?

"As a man thinketh in His heart, so is he."

God is shining the light of His truth as to what He actually accomplished in His death AND His ressurection IN US in these last days. Who were the virgins who entered in before the gates were shut? Those who had the oil and LIT IT. Right?

In Revelation 19, we are told that "they overcame him (satan) by two things...the blood of the lamb AND the word of THEIR testimony."

Is this not a good part of the reason so many are struggling? We have been taught well on the first part but as the second, satan has convinced us that it is not for us to do.

Who are we? We are told this clearly.

They that are in the flesh cannot please God.

We are not in the flesh, but in the spirit.

We owe the flesh NOTHING.

Our shield of faith WILL quench all of satan's flaming arrows.

We will NOT be tempted above that which we are able to stand.

Jesus is he who promises to keep us from falling.

Sin shall not have dominion over us.

We are to put off the old man and put on the new, not fight incessantly with our old nature. We must reckon it dead.

Now, we must ask ourselves what we have up till now believed?

In short, that we are only human and no one is perfect and thank God for forgiveness if we confess our sins.

Yet God tells us that we can do all things thru Christ who strengthens us.

Could it be that our lack of faith, our failure to arm ourselves with these truths, our not holding up our shield of faith as to what God has done inside us, has let satan take potshots at us, and all because we have basically given him permission by our lack of "resisting him, steadfast in the faith"?

I hope there is some meat here, something we can grab hold of, some footholds that we can climb up on to get out of the pit of our failures and begin to walk as He has clearly promised, as more than conquorers, under an easy yoke, in the glorious liberty of the children of God.

I will stop here and see what you think so far.

May God bless.

Gideon



This is the victroy that overcomes the world, even our faith.
 
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lovenotwar

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Not to sound negative, but no, that is more of the same. There's a lot of scripture, but God gave us teachers to take the celestial and convert it into the practical.
Remember J Vernon McGee? He was a seriously educated elite, but with the spirit and language of a backwoods, Tennessee bred hillbilly. His gift was in fulfilling his motto; 'Let's put the cookies on the table where the kids can reach them.'
I don't speak bible or christianese, and I don't think that's how Jesus spoke when he was alone with His disciples and explained the parables. They complained that they couldn't understand what he was talking about half the time in public.
Let's talk like humans, with human problems and in need of practical solutions, not ethereal concepts.
I need words that speak to the construction worker and field hand as well as the worship leader and author. Even children should be able to understand when I get through. That's what I'm looking for. I don't live on a puffy pink cloud - not yet anyway.
By the way, even though Jesus introduced heavenly principles, he used the language of agriculture so they could understand. It was familiar to their earthly culture. Can we come down to earth with our heavenly concepts? Is that too much to expect?
 
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x141

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The bible speaks in such celestial terms - the parables of Jesus, some of his sayings like, 'He who does not eat my flesh or drink my blood has no part in me.' That's great for someone who has 'arrived', I suppose, but for someone who is really seeking direction for their lives, it doesn't provide much of a practical list to approach, let alone what it means.

How about you are what you eat.

But we don't come to him by steps this would be eating the fruit of our own tree or in other words eating of our own thoughts of what we deem good or evil. By eating of our own thoughts as the truth we are saving our soul. We must loose our soul, or our thoughts in order to find who we really are as sons of God.

Coming to him by steps is what the tree represents. Trying to become which all along you have been already created to be, whether or not you understand it, doesn't matter, you are in Christ now and stand complete, and anything less is exalting of your thoughts above his. Becasue if you think that your going to pull this off yourself, good luck. Our footsteps are odered already by God. We walk out each day in this trust just like Jesus did.

If in deed you are dead as Paul said, then dead men have no thoughts, all this is measured back to you with what measure you meet it with.

If you drink blood God cuts you off forever, thats what that meant. But since God and his word are one, and there is no begining or end to him and no height width or length then you can't put your finger on this and say this is the only thing that means because then your once again exalting your thoughts above his. Trying to turn the infinite God into a few words scribbled on a wrinkled page.

This is the way I talk to my Maint. crew and the one that is churched and the one that is not can recieve it. But I'm sure, this doesn't mean you will.
 
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gideons300

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Not to sound negative, but no, that is more of the same. There's a lot of scripture, but God gave us teachers to take the celestial and convert it into the practical.
Remember J Vernon McGee? He was a seriously educated elite, but with the spirit and language of a backwoods, Tennessee bred hillbilly. His gift was in fulfilling his motto; 'Let's put the cookies on the table where the kids can reach them.'
I don't speak bible or christianese, and I don't think that's how Jesus spoke when he was alone with His disciples and explained the parables. They complained that they couldn't understand what he was talking about half the time in public.
Let's talk like humans, with human problems and in need of practical solutions, not ethereal concepts.
I need words that speak to the construction worker and field hand as well as the worship leader and author. Even children should be able to understand when I get through. That's what I'm looking for. I don't live on a puffy pink cloud - not yet anyway.
By the way, even though Jesus introduced heavenly principles, he used the language of agriculture so they could understand. It was familiar to their earthly culture. Can we come down to earth with our heavenly concepts? Is that too much to expect?
Brother, when Jesus said you have to lose your life to save it, do you think that was practical or ethereal, as you put it?

When He said that if your eye offend you, cut it out....well?

He told them they must be born again. How practical and down to earth was that?

Don't forget Jesus spoke these words to fishermen, prostitutes and I am sure, a few carpenters and construction workers of His day and they got it, amen?

If you want pratical answers to spiritual unrest, good luck, but it will not happen. You get the answers from God, on your knees. Faith is not logical, nor is it "practical". But it works, if we take a break from trying to solve spiritual issues with eating more of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

What practical advice do you think will make you spiritually content? Go to church three times weekly? Pray an hour before you start the rest of your day? Memorize large portions of scripture? These are all good. Have you done these or do you just want to complain about your lack? I mean no disrespect but if you have not exhausted every opportunity to seek God's face that you can think of, no one is going to give you a list of do's and don'ts, unless, of course you think the law can set you free.

This sort of reminds me of the lame man at the pool of Bethsaida. He had been there 38 years and never had been first in the water when the angel stirred the waters on occasion so he could not get healed. The God of the Universe was standing there and the lame man was complaining about the practical aspects of his dilemma. He got healed when he finally looked away from a "practical solution" and let faith work. Was it logical or "etherel"?

Just something to munch on......

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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gideons300

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How about you are what you eat.

But we don't come to him by steps this would be eating the fruit of our own tree or in other words eating of our own thoughts of what we deem good or evil. By eating of our own thoughts as the truth we are saving our soul. We must loose our soul, or our thoughts in order to find who we really are as sons of God.

Coming to him by steps is what the tree represents. Trying to become which all along you have been already created to be, whether or not you understand it, doesn't matter, you are in Christ now and stand complete, and anything less is exalting of your thoughts above his. Becasue if you think that your going to pull this off yourself, good luck. Our footsteps are odered already by God. We walk out each day in this trust just like Jesus did.

If in deed you are dead as Paul said, then dead men have no thoughts, all this is measured back to you with what measure you meet it with.

If you drink blood God cuts you off forever, thats what that meant. But since God and his word are one, and there is no begining or end to him and no height width or length then you can't put your finger on this and say this is the only thing that means because then your once again exalting your thoughts above his. Trying to turn the infinite God into a few words scribbled on a wrinkled page.

This is the way I talk to my Maint. crew and the one that is churched and the one that is not can recieve it. But I'm sure, this doesn't mean you will.
...and it is the same way I talk to my landscape crew, LOL. We seem to be camped around the same fire. Blessings.

Gideon
 
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lovenotwar

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Well no matter what you say, if the fact is that a person doesn't get it, they just don't get it. Plain and simple. Argue all you want, but it won't change that fact. Sorry. you can't force me to understand something i don't understand.
Actually I thought those last suggestions were very practical, not to make a person content, but that they are useful tools in developing a life of discipleship.
if Jesus says to lose my life, I have to look at my life to see if there is something practical and actual that is an idol or substitute for Jesus, something practical or real that his hindering me from receiving and surrendering to all of him.
That is the thing I share with others, not just the verse.
i don't think God gave us teachers and gifted them to expound scripture with the wisdom that Paul always spoke of, just so we would repeat them as they are on the page. Anyone can do that, even an atheist.

But I'm not going to argue the point, because as the name says: Love - not - war! Whatever works for you.
 
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stormdancer0

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Okay, practical.

If you are not sure you're saved, take care of that. NOW. Ask God to be Lord of your life - not just your spiritual life, but ALL your life.

Pray. Every day. Whether you want to or not. Whether you get an answer or not. I once was praying for days, and finally said out loud, "Why am I praying? They're just bouncing off the ceiling." I heard in my spirit, "That's because I am here with you. Your prayers do not need to go any further."

Read your Bible. Every day. Whether you want to or not. Whether you understand it or not.

If you find a passage, a phrase, or verse that just kind of snags you, or pauses your reading for a second. Stop there, and study that verse. Memorize it. Think about it. Ask God, "What does this mean?"

Listen to God's Spirit in you. He will begin urging you to do stuff. Little stuff.
"Hold the door open for her."
"That homeless person? Buy him a hamburger."
"Tell that shy, quiet person they look good today."
"Put down that worldly _________" (book, magazine, TV show, etc.)

Listen, REALLY LISTEN, to your pastor's sermons. Take notes. Ask him about anything you don't understand. Let him know you really are hearing him.

Just a few ideas. But as you start to do these things, you will begin to be guided by the Holy Spirit, and won't need so much direction from man.

The next time someone makes an uber-spiritual suggestion, ask them, "What does that look like in your life? How do you personally make sure you are 'abiiiiiding in Christ' all the time?" They will either become a great mentor, or start stuttering. Either way, you have your answer.

Start here.
 
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lovenotwar

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Oh excellent, sister StormDancer!

Now that's what I'm talkin about!!!!
That's perfect counsel that someone can use. What you said at the end about the stuttering, oh, how many times I have seen it!

So glad someone really gets it. Blessings. Blessings. Blessings, oh Woman of God! Glory to your God!
 
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x141

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Sorry. you can't force me to understand something i don't understand.

1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

No matter how simple you make it, unless our Father opens our eyes to see we will not see it.

Gen_21:19 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
 
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Amylisa

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Okay, practical.

If you are not sure you're saved, take care of that. NOW. Ask God to be Lord of your life - not just your spiritual life, but ALL your life.

Pray. Every day. Whether you want to or not. Whether you get an answer or not. I once was praying for days, and finally said out loud, "Why am I praying? They're just bouncing off the ceiling." I heard in my spirit, "That's because I am here with you. Your prayers do not need to go any further."

Read your Bible. Every day. Whether you want to or not. Whether you understand it or not.

If you find a passage, a phrase, or verse that just kind of snags you, or pauses your reading for a second. Stop there, and study that verse. Memorize it. Think about it. Ask God, "What does this mean?"

Listen to God's Spirit in you. He will begin urging you to do stuff. Little stuff.
"Hold the door open for her."
"That homeless person? Buy him a hamburger."
"Tell that shy, quiet person they look good today."
"Put down that worldly _________" (book, magazine, TV show, etc.)

Listen, REALLY LISTEN, to your pastor's sermons. Take notes. Ask him about anything you don't understand. Let him know you really are hearing him.

Just a few ideas. But as you start to do these things, you will begin to be guided by the Holy Spirit, and won't need so much direction from man.

The next time someone makes an uber-spiritual suggestion, ask them, "What does that look like in your life? How do you personally make sure you are 'abiiiiiding in Christ' all the time?" They will either become a great mentor, or start stuttering. Either way, you have your answer.

Start here.

My husband is good at that. He will ask a question where you have to put it into 'how do you live that...how does that change the day to day of how you live."
:thumbsup:
 
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stormdancer0

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1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

No matter how simple you make it, unless our Father opens our eyes to see we will not see it.

Gen_21:19 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Interesting use of scripture to drag down a new Christian. "Well you must not be spiritual, because you don't understand it."

I have to agree that the spiritual sounding sayings, like "abide in Christ" are useless if we cannot explain what it means to a new believer. I do abide in Christ. But it's a process with some very explainable aspects.

If we cannot describe ways to at least begin these spiritual ways of living, we will do nothing but frustrate and alienate those who are truly seeking God. Yes, God will open our eyes and help us understand. But most of the time, He uses mature Christians with sound suggestions to do so. This is one of the reasons God admonishes us not to forgo assembling together, so we can support one another.
 
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x141

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Interesting use of scripture to drag down a new Christian. "Well you must not be spiritual, because you don't understand it."

I have to agree that the spiritual sounding sayings, like "abide in Christ" are useless if we cannot explain what it means to a new believer. I do abide in Christ. But it's a process with some very explainable aspects.

If we cannot describe ways to at least begin these spiritual ways of living, we will do nothing but frustrate and alienate those who are truly seeking God. Yes, God will open our eyes and help us understand. But most of the time, He uses mature Christians with sound suggestions to do so. This is one of the reasons God admonishes us not to forgo assembling together, so we can support one another.

I understand your mind on this, but you need to read his posts more closely. By the way, I'm not disagreeing with him, just merely pointing out another angle of what he had said.

To me the guy who calmed the waters with a word asked for the toilet paper a few mintues later. He was the most approachable guy who ever walked the planet.
 
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thomasalias

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1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

No matter how simple you make it, unless our Father opens our eyes to see we will not see it.

Gen_21:19 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.

I noticed that the Spirit always agrees with the word. And that love walks charitably with its brethren like paul speaks of in Romans 14, so apposing Gods law that the apostles teach is neither charitable or Spiritual.

Those who keep, obey and teach the words of Christ and His apostles are spiritual and are those who belong to Him. Those who do Gods will are His brothers and sisters, and they are the ones who love Him. And perfect love does not cast out Godly fear because it is clean and endures forever, Gods mercy is upon them that fear him and there is no torment in Godly fear, only correction, mercy and love.

There is no understanding deeper than that.
 
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seeingeyes

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Ah yes, I call it "churchese". I am fluent because I was raised up with it, but there is certainly a time to use technical jargon and a time not to.

Sister Stormdancer has already given you more practical advice then I ever could, so do what she said. But be careful...in twenty years, you may be the one muttering, "just abiiiide in Jesus".;)
 
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Emmy

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Dear lovenotwar. In St. Matthews, chapter 22, verses 34-40, Jesus tells a Lawyer, quite specifically: " The first and great Commandments is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus is even more specific, He points out: " On these two Commandments hang all th Law and the Prophets." God wants our love, freely given and no conditions tagged on. God is Love, Jesus died out of Love for God and for Mankind, and God wants loving children/sons and daughters.
The Bible tells us quite explicitly, " Repent," exchange our selfish and unloving character, Into: Loving God with all our beings, and loving our neighbour, (all others, friends or not friends) AS WE LOVE OURSELVES.
How do we do this? We do, or say, or advise, or work for, Love in all its kindness and charity. God will see our sincere efforts, and God will bless us and approve, God will know that we are following His Loving Advice: to love and care. We are the only representatives which God has in this imperfect world, only we know the difference between Love/Agape, and going our own way, selfishly and non-caring. Love is the Christian`s strongest weapon, Love will overcome all adversity, and bring Faith and Hope to its full potentials.
Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us. Jesus told us: " Ask and ye will receive," then we thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour. Jesus our Saviour will help and guide us: Jesus is The Way, and Satan will flee, Love is Anathema to all satanic beings, loveandnot war. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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x141

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Can it be that the women are just more sensible? Are they simply humbler? Are women more open to practicality than men? Is this why God placed women in the home to be the primary teachers - not only the home, but in nature as well, come to think of it.
It seems the brothers just want to take a huge hamburger and shove it down the throats of those who don't even have teeth yet!

God bless you, sisters! You perfectly nailed it!
I guess only the mother knows that she must chop up that steak into bite-sized pieces to accommodate the eater. Kudos to all the Mary's out there, who know that just kneeling at Jesus' feet is that 'one thing that is necessary'.

By your speech in your posts I can clearly see you are not a new christian, in this respect your posts are both deceptive and now strives to divide further.
 
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