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Amylisa · Apr 12, 2012

STOP TRUSTING IN YOURSELF by David Wilkerson | World Challenge

Paul did not speak of having faith until he had lost all confidence in his flesh. He took all his education, self-confidence, abilities, doctrines and zeal and cast them aside. He spoke of faith only after he had said, "I cannot trust my flesh." The same is true for us.

Before anyone is capable of true faith, he must come to a sense of how lost, helpless and utterly hopeless he is. We do not have saving faith until we come to the end of believing that someone or something other than Jesus can save us.

Saving, justifying faith involves submitting your life to Christ with all your heart. It includes a repentance that says, "Jesus, I have got nothing to offer You. I come to submit to Your lordship!"

In Romans 10:9, Paul characterizes saving faith as believing with your heart and confessing with your mouth. He is saying that faith is more than merely giving mental assent. Rather, it is submitting your whole life to Him with all your heart.

In Acts 8:37, Philip said to the eunuch, "If thou believest with all thine heart . . ." and the eunuch replied, "I believe. . . ." This was not simply a mental "yes" to Jesus he really believed with all his heart and he was saved.

In contrast, Simon Magus believed Paul's preaching. Yet he had only a temporary faith because his heart was not in it. Indeed, multitudes of people in Jesus' day believed temporarily in the name of Christ, but Jesus would not commit Himself to them because He knew their hearts were not fully committed (see John 2:23-24).

So, you ask, who is truly justified by faith? It is the one who knows he is lost and helpless and he has tried everything and failed. Now he commits his whole life into the Lord's hands with all his heart, mind, soul and strength. He cries out, "Lord, I am Yours! You are my only hope." And he is saved!
by David Wilkerson

lovenotwar · Apr 12, 2012

I just know someone is going to respond to this with some judgmental discourse on obeying rules or something, when it's good to get back to the merciful way Jesus looked at those who really love him, but don't yet (or ever) meet up to the standard that others do.
Is there room for them at the foot of the cross still? I think Jude said something about showing compassion on some, making a distinction, while others save with fear. I think it means that you have to warn some with the law to make them fear the judgment of God, while others really, really want to live up to God's holiness, but just can't win the fight with the flesh.
Knowing that Jesus loves them so mercifully is the only way to feel free enough to try without being condemned for every failure, so much that they sin out of misery or despair.

Amylisa · Apr 12, 2012

lovenotwar said:
I just know someone is going to respond to this with some judgmental discourse on obeying rules or something, when it's good to get back to the merciful way Jesus looked at those who really love him, but don't yet (or ever) meet up to the standard that others do.
Is there room for them at the foot of the cross still? I think Jude said something about showing compassion on some, making a distinction, while others save with fear. I think it means that you have to warn some with the law to make them fear the judgment of God, while others really, really want to live up to God's holiness, but just can't win the fight with the flesh.
Knowing that Jesus loves them so mercifully is the only way to feel free enough to try without being condemned for every failure, so much that they sin out of misery or despair.

I agree!!

thomasalias · Apr 12, 2012

Well i wouldn't want to disappoint. Allow me to talk of rules in a judgmental discourse.

First off, are we not judging those who obey rules, rules they know are important to learn and obey? If so then this judgment is fitting. Secondly if we think ourselves to be so spiritual and loving, why not walk charitably with our weaker brethren who obey rules? After all they have good reason because they are commanded to obey them, they are commanded to abide in the Lord by obeying His words and sayings.

And last but not least, this is a good reason not to judge those who obey rules and a good reason to learn them ourselves:

1Co 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

But of course if we don't study the rules then how would we no what charity and love truly is?

lovenotwar · Apr 13, 2012

Matin Luther's dying words:
'Beggars all, this is true."

Oh to remember where Christ found me.
To remember how godless, hurting, lonely, hateful.
To remember the feeling of His arms around me,
without judgment, so gracious and faithful.

I gave Him nothing, having nothing to give,
and before He told me how I had to live,
He just told me, You'll never know
how much I love you, sinner,

or the plans I have for your future, loser
to make you a saint and a winner.

Amylisa · Apr 13, 2012

Hi thomasalias,
I was so blessed by D.Wilkerson's writing not because I don't believe in rules, but because Yeshua has been showing me how much I try to do things in my own strength. I do keep rules, at His direction, however I am one of those people who, in wanting to do right, often winds up putting my trust more in my 'rightness' than in He Himself. This article came to my email inbox on a day when I was especially wrestling with this whole thing....I had to laugh out loud, amazed Again at Yeshua's timing and faithfulness.

I suppose we're all going to respond to something based on where we're at, at the moment.

thomasalias · Apr 13, 2012

Amylisa said:
Hi thomasalias,
I was so blessed by D.Wilkerson's writing not because I don't believe in rules, but because Yeshua has been showing me how much I try to do things in my own strength. I do keep rules, at His direction, however I am one of those people who, in wanting to do right, often winds up putting my trust more in my 'rightness' than in He Himself. This article came to my email inbox on a day when I was especially wrestling with this whole thing....I had to laugh out loud, amazed Again at Yeshua's timing and faithfulness.

I suppose we're all going to respond to something based on where we're at, at the moment.

Yes i hear that a lot, that we cant obey on our own strength, but i am a believer that it takes all our heart, mind, soul and strength to obey God and that is the same as loving God with heart, mind soul and strength.

It takes all our strength and Gods strength too, it takes confession, prayer and even our own effort.

I noticed that there isn't one example in the bible of a person obeying on their own strength, there isn't one teaching on this either, so im not sure where it even comes from. The bible seems to suggest that we do need Gods strength, and it seems to teach that we must use all our strength as well in order to obey Him, and this is loving Him.

Amylisa · Apr 13, 2012

thomasalias said:
Yes i hear that a lot, that we cant obey on our own strength, but i am a believer that it takes all our heart, mind, soul and strength to obey God and that is the same as loving God with heart, mind soul and strength.

It takes all our strength and Gods strength too, it takes confession, prayer and even our own effort.

I noticed that there isn't one example in the bible of a person obeying on their own strength, there isn't one teaching on this either, so im not sure where it even comes from. The bible seems to suggest that we do need Gods strength, and it seems to teach that we must use all our strength as well in order to obey Him, and this is loving Him.

Very good point!!! I think what you're saying here is absolutely true. Yeshua did say that didn't He...love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your strength.

I didn't mean to say we don't or shouldn't apply our own effort...only that in my case, I tend to Trust my own efforts. It's hard to put into words, but Yeshua has shown me this repeatedly.

seeingeyes · Apr 13, 2012

thomasalias said:
But of course if we don't study the rules then how would we no what charity and love truly is?

Romans 5
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die.
8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!
10For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
11Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

1 John
7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.
10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
13We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.
16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
17In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

thomasalias · Apr 13, 2012

seeingeyes said:
Romans 5
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die.
8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!
10For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
11Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

1 John
7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.
10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
13We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.
16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
17In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Interesting verse. That one lone verse by John that says he who fears is not perfected in love is usually taken out of context to say Godly fear is wrong, and is countered by a multitude of scripture telling us to fear God. Perfect love cast out fear of man, but not God because it is clean and endures forever, not to mention the apostles tell us to perfect holiness in Godly fear, and worship Him in Godly fear.

But we have been mislead to believe that Godly fear is wrong.

And furthermore he who keeps the words and sayings of Christ is he who loves Him, and if we love each other we wont use our liberty as a stumbling block for others.

That's real love.

So anyone who uses their liberty as a stumbling block or does not keep the words and sayings of Christ is also not perfected in love.

thomasalias · Apr 13, 2012

Amylisa said:
Very good point!!! I think what you're saying here is absolutely true. Yeshua did say that didn't He...love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your strength.

I didn't mean to say we don't or shouldn't apply our own effort...only that in my case, I tend to Trust my own efforts. It's hard to put into words, but Yeshua has shown me this repeatedly.

I agree our own effort is needed and Gods strength and grace also. I know that we must fear God and not man, we must depart from our evil ways and submit to Gods will, we have liberty but not to an occasion of the flesh, we don't have liberty to do evil works of the flesh, and our liberty shouldn't be used to cause our brethren to become weak or stumble because paul says that's a sin against Christ. So we must uphold Christs words and sayings because we are to obey them and teach them.

seeingeyes · Apr 14, 2012

"If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?" Matthew 5:46-47

If you show love to those who post how you like, what reward will you get? Are not even the heathens doing that? And if you greet only those that agree with you, what are you doing more than others? Do not even posters on 4chan do that? Therefore be perfect as your Father is perfect.

thomasalias · Apr 14, 2012

Im not sure we all know what love is, even those who think kind words are love seem to be missing the point. Love rejoices in the truth, the Spirit is in all goodness and truth. Why should i be judged for posting rules as if i'm judging others simply by posting what the apostles teach? Or as if i'm like a pharisee? That's not the case at all. Im not judging anyone and im not a pharisee.

Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Sunnys · Apr 14, 2012

Thomas...

Why are you using an old version rather than a new version? Nosy question, I know... and sorry for that, curiosity you know. Have you ever looked at biblos.com?

Sojourner1 · Apr 14, 2012

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FreeinChrist · Apr 21, 2012

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