Are they any closer yet?
Pardon me while I
NKJV) Ephesians 5:32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
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What Commandment did God say to; "Remember", that the world wants to forget? (6)
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
What I find ironic is we have an SDA channel here that broadcasts on the sabbath which means there are people working there which means either they are SDA breaking the sabbath or SDA that are paying others to break the sabbath for their sake. I would respect them more if they shut off the station on the sabbath day.
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OK so your just providing meaningless babble. You know full well what is going on here in GT.
The point is you an SDA said And I challenge you to crack the code as to why we say this, not me. Just what code are you talking about, Lysimachus? So why can't I use what you said? I didn't take anything out of context or twist your comments.
It is a well known fact that the cults use the same words as the average person with different meanings. This is code and exactly what you said to crack. See my previous post about some fine examples. You got some splainin to do as Lucy would say. So lets have it.
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Oh pleeeeaaasseee. I've witnessed your passages dealt with and few dealing with the opposition. Ususally they are dismissed without a comment or explained away with your code you said we need to crack. It has been cracked and you won't admit it. You're not here for fair and open discussion. I've witnessed the exchanges.
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He can wreck his own ship if he likes. He won't wreck mine.shipwreck? why when they were getting under the judaisitc laws, that with the utmost of respect, you are promotoing, they would be fallen from gacre, gal 5, and leaving him who called them, (that would be JesusGal 1:6,, in the grace?
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please advise.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
Jesus proved that he could technically break the sabbath (he was called on it) yet not sin. If I am not sinning by breaking the sabbath (because it doesn't apply to me) then I too can break it. If I however am commanding people to keep the sabbath then I am liable to make sure I don't encourage others to break it nor break it myself.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
I still say in the NT Jesus raised the bar on the Law such that even a thought about breaking the law was breaking it. If you hate your brother you are a murderer (breaking the 10Cs) if you lust after another man's wife you are an adulterer (breaking the 10Cs). I would say if you think about breaking the sabbath or by your actions cause someone to break it then you are breaking the sabbath (breaking the 10Cs).
As in the NT we are following God in spirit instead of flesh (OT) then when we break laws in the spirit we are breaking them. This is why God made it easier because it is now impossible to even attempt to keep the law. In the flesh it is (nearly) impossible but in the spirit... absolutelyl impossible
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Lysimachus
Vindicating our Historic Biblical Foundations
The code that needs to be cracked is:
How is it that we are saved by Grace through Faith alone without the works of the law, yet still cannot enter the kingdom of heaven if we willfully disobey His Laws and His Commandments?
Scriptures emphasize both these points! Not me.
Adventism has a vested interest in harmonizing these concepts. This is the "code" I'm challenging you to study out and crack! Many here do not want to find harmony between the two. They'd rather PICK AND CHOOSE rather than getting to the bottom of it.
Also, I'm challenging you to understand WHY and HOW Adventists are able to believe that Salvation is by Grace through Faith alone and not the Works of the Law, yet still emphasize the importance of keeping all God's commandments if we are going to be saved.
We have written much on this. My challenge for you is to learn how these concepts are capable of harmonizing.
You see listed, we Adventists seem to speak with a forked tongue, out of both sides of our mouth.
Why is that?
Because that's how the Scriptures appear to many people as well too concerning this issue of Law and Grace.
You getting it? Some New Testament scriptures emphasize law-keeping....that we will only have life if we keep the commandments. Others emphasize only faith and grace, and that the law is bondage.
Make more sense?
Think about it.
P.S. Please do not think everybody that I'm saying "Only Adventists have cracked this code...." I'm just using an example here based on the fact that Listed is directing his arguments against ADventists. I realize that many sincere Sabbath-keeping Christians out there see these concepts, and are not Adventists!
How is it that we are saved by Grace through Faith alone without the works of the law, yet still cannot enter the kingdom of heaven if we willfully disobey His Laws and His Commandments?
Scriptures emphasize both these points! Not me.
Adventism has a vested interest in harmonizing these concepts. This is the "code" I'm challenging you to study out and crack! Many here do not want to find harmony between the two. They'd rather PICK AND CHOOSE rather than getting to the bottom of it.
Also, I'm challenging you to understand WHY and HOW Adventists are able to believe that Salvation is by Grace through Faith alone and not the Works of the Law, yet still emphasize the importance of keeping all God's commandments if we are going to be saved.
We have written much on this. My challenge for you is to learn how these concepts are capable of harmonizing.
You see listed, we Adventists seem to speak with a forked tongue, out of both sides of our mouth.
Why is that?
Because that's how the Scriptures appear to many people as well too concerning this issue of Law and Grace.
You getting it? Some New Testament scriptures emphasize law-keeping....that we will only have life if we keep the commandments. Others emphasize only faith and grace, and that the law is bondage.
Make more sense?
Think about it.
P.S. Please do not think everybody that I'm saying "Only Adventists have cracked this code...." I'm just using an example here based on the fact that Listed is directing his arguments against ADventists. I realize that many sincere Sabbath-keeping Christians out there see these concepts, and are not Adventists!
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We are thinking about it and will one day get it. Ya got it?The code that needs to be cracked is:
You see listed, we Adventists seem to speak with a forked tongue, out of both sides of our mouth.
Why is that?
Because that's how the Scriptures appear to many people as well too concerning this issue of Law and Grace.
You getting it?
Think about it.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7549230-2/#post57234334
Are you under THE law, Grace or both (2)
.
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You are so right. So where exactly did God bring an end to the sabbath and declare that it was no longer His holy day?
That is my belief. I however did not bring that up in this thread. I believe frogster misunderstood what I meant by using the word "diet".
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Much appreciated listed.
So how exactly did you translate his statement that you should "crack the code" in we speak in code? Unless I'm misunderstanding what he said, I believe he is saying you ought to study the scriptures to see how we came to such an understanding.
What we say isn't in "code". There are mysteries in the bible that can only be understood if studied diligently.
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This is incorrect. Jesus did not break the sabbath, techincal or otherwise. If Jesus broke the sabbath under the "old covenant", that wold have been a sin. There were no exceptions being made for Him. Jesus kept the sabbath the way it was suppose to be kept, and ignored the traditions of men that surrounded it.
If you're Christian, the sabbath applies to you. Trying to strip a single commandment out of the ten is no more possible than trying to separate a single drop of water from the ocean.
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Exactly what do you need to be delivered from in regards to the law? The law itself, or the penalty for breaking it?
If you are not in violation of the law, do you need deliverance from it?
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Lysimachus
Vindicating our Historic Biblical Foundations
He gave it to Jesus so that we had permission to willfully violate His commandments? Or He gave to Jesus the full responsibility and weight of the curse of the law? Jesus bore our sins, so that we might have victory and be saved.
Notice:
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Galatians 6:2 - "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ."
God expects to have a remnant people who will EXEMPLIFY His character! This is what it means to be a Christian. Or else, we're better off being atheists.
We are weak, and we fail. But Christ fulfilled where the law was weak. But we are to do our part of what we CAN do. If we WILLFULLY go against what we CAN do, this is called "transgression of the law", and we cannot be saved. This is rebellion, not submission to Christ.
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OK, So lets see. I'm sure that your church teaches one can't be saved without observing the sabbath. By saved I mean the right to eat the tree of life and enter and take up residence there in mansion that Jesus went to prepare for us. This is salvation by works of the law due in part as made a requirement. The keeping or not keeping of the sabbath isn't evil either way. What does Gal 5:3 say? It it talking about circumcision or naming it as a work of the law? What is the whole focus of Galatians? Isn't it about not observing the law? Do we follow the Spirit or the law? You say both denying the spirit of the law you promote while the verse 5:18 indicates one or the other just like verse 3 does. Doesn't 3:10 make it very plain? What about 4:30 where we're told to throw the law out through the use of an allegory.
Is this promoted because of Rev 22:14 and 14:12? Doesn't this relate to the code word commandments? In your version it means exclusively the ten commandments. Is this what John is refering to? I don't think so because of Jn 15:10 and I John 3:23. I present them because they are valid to the apology.
And not because someone else has presented them. Neither has been honestly dealt with by the law people. Yes I understand why. But the law people aren't honest about those causes either.
Why do you disregard Mat 11:13 and LK 16:16 which aren't the works of Paul saying the law is a has been?
Why do you disregard Romans 6, 7, 8 and 10?
Why do you disregard James 2?
Sure they do and I see this very plainly. The only real difference between the SDA, Mormons, JWs and Masons is the names and faces when one gets down to the nitty gritty. No I'm not going to discuss detail of the various groups. I've made a very fair statement which comes from study and life experiences with each of the groups.
There is no harmony to be found in the 2 except both deal with sin. But they don't even deal with the same sin. The law deals only with the physical manifestations of the flesh and all of the promises and curses only concern the flesh. Read about it in the Book of the law - Deuteronomy 28-30. There are a few scattered references elsewhere that I'm not going to chase down. The Spirit deals with the heart by changing it. The war is now on a very different level. Yes you will say it has always been on the level with the Spirit. No way. Romans 8.
As a denomination the SDA are 2 faced and divided. Not much different from other organizations. Statement of faith and practice don't meet. The SDA have the added burden of the code as seen here by those with any knowledge. We argue on 2 very different levels. For instance TruthWave7 desperately wants me to post a denomination so he can argue religion. That isn't what I'm about. So very sorry.
So you can argue over something that can't be supported by Scripture all you want to.
Say why don't you mosey on over to my IJ thread and inform me because I asked about this SDA doctrine. Stryder a church leader says I don't understand this doctrine. ProphecyKid gave me a simple explanation which is far from complete. Stryder has yet to make an appearance.
How can one harmonize what is clearly opposed? Again the code is a problem.
Seems? Nothing! They dospeak with forked tongue and are caught here. The trouble is the truth is avoided at all costs. 3AM made an unsupportable statement about me and so far has refused to either post the quote or admit to lying. Why is this? I think it is because his poistion is undefendable. The SDA resort to this ad hominem often here in GT. This is TruthWave7's reason to ask for a denominational belief statement from me.
No the real issue is the preaching by the ignorant and the attitude that an authority figure is right because of their exalted position. Many of these in positions of authority are only spouting the party line with no examination of the contenets. Question them for yourself and find out how empty they are. They can't defend anything much. But they're very good parrots. Do you get the idea I'm not a groupie? I might get accused of rebelion because this and that is OK by me. I refuse to submit to a lie. Remember broad and easy is the way. It would be much easier to just agree with you and go to hell. Sorry - no dice ever ya hear. That being said I didn't say anything about your relationship (or that of others) to God. There is no salvation to be had or maintained by the law. Following the law won't get you the right to eat from the tree of life or enter heaven. Jesus said so. I see it as a choice.Because that's how the Scriptures appear to many people as well too concerning this issue of Law and Grace.
No there aren't. And while you ask me for Scripture I see you presented none. Why is this?
I have. Thank you very much. I have a very different Leader IMHO. And don't you dare say or imply it is satan. I didn't say your leader is satan either. So read and hear what you want.Make more sense?
Think about it.
Time for a pity party folks. Who is going to have it and send out invitations?
Listed isn't attacking the SDA religious organization. He is debating their doctrinal position with and on a Scriptural foundation using the whole Bible.
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