Orthodoxy & Comics: Is Paganism and the Old Ways being brought back via Comics?

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I was writing this due to how it seems that there seems to be a shift/trend I've noticed in the world of comics....and that shift that I never picked up on was how many of the comics, be it DC or Marvel or others, have had worldviews heavily pushed in theme that are very much focused upon theology discussions which make it seem as if those theologies of the Old Ways/Paganism are normal and to be considered alongsie Christianity as if they are simply ways of expressing the world that are valid. There was a book I read recently on the subject that really had me processing, entitled The Barbarian Conversion: from Paganism to Christianity--




For more, one can click here or here. Fletcher's history covers the years from the 200's AD, beginning with the earliest European missionary, Gregory Thaumaturgis, until 1386, when Lithuania was brought into the fold--just 1100 years to convert all of Europe from Iberia to Greenland, Iceland and the British Isles to Scandinavia and the Baltics from their tribalism, provincialism, and paganism to Christianity, kingdoms, Latin, Roman law, and a sense that the entire region was a whole. It was truly brilliant to consider the ways in which Paganism tended to fade away as Christianity took more influence in converting the kings of the nations and making Christianity more wide-spread legally....while the pagan views either adapted by taking the names of their gods/changing them to fit "Christian" ones or choosing to lay low until a time they could spring back forth again....subverting things subtely under the radar before anyone would notice and see how there was transformation from the inside out. For when it was about survival, it was best to find ways to co-opt the dominant religion by saying that all of those involved were akin to the minority religion in small ways.

Some seem to have extended this principle/supposed that prominent aspects of Christendom have been effectively "borrowed" from other cultures, such as whenever people say things like the Virgin Mary shows how the Mother Goddess isn't dead and has reincarnated herself in the form of Mary (seen even in film series such as "The Midsts of Avalon" when describing the development of Camelot and Christianity in competition with Paganism).....or saying that the Christ story was a reinvention of older legends. Neither seem to hold much weight when studied very closely, of course...especially in regards to the Virgin Birth, despite the many differing stories with similarities to it in other religions (more discussed here). Nonetheless, there was an historic principle with paganism in reimagining oneself in order to transition into a new era where one can come out of hiding/regain what they had in another time before they were pushed underground...as occurred with many of the gods/idols other nations followed.

And in many ways, it seems like this is happening again in an era where Christianity used to be dominant around the world and yet has been slowly losing influence...with the pagan view seeming to reinsert itself in differing ways we all grew up with.


In example, the film "Thor" that recently came out is something to consider. Over the centuries, Norse mythology, like its Greek and Roman counterparts, has been appropriated by artists seeking to enlighten as well as by those with the more modest goal of providing entertainment. Based on the exploits of the titular Marvel Comics superhero, "Thor" (Paramount) falls satisfyingly into the latter category.

For the Christian audiences who too quickly dismiss the film for its focus on pagan mythology, they should be aware the movie very clearly explains its Norse pantheon is made of neither gods nor angels nor demons. In fact, there's almost nothing pagan about "Thor" at all.

Instead, the characters Odin, Thor and Loki are portrayed in the film as an alien race of superior technology who visited Earth 1,000 years ago and whose "powers" were only mistaken for divinity. When the aliens returned home, they became objects of worship, myth and legend among the Norse people.

"Once mankind accepted a simple truth," the movie states, "we are not alone in this universe." The quote carries a double meaning here, both in the idea that there are aliens out there, but also, as the aliens are Norse "gods," that there is God out there too. It's a clever line, for it sets up a recurring theme of the clash between believing in the supernatural and our more modern, "scientific" insistence on only accepting the natural, empirically provable as truth. Along those lines, one of the women in the film quotes, "Magic is just science we don't understand yet." Thor later explains, "Your ancestors called it magic. You call it science. I come from a place where they are one and the same." Is she right? Or are there things naturalist "science" can't explain?

As said best in one review called CCAS MOVIE REVIEW: Thor - Christian Comic Arts Society:




Thor_poster.jpg
In addition to being a fun action movie, Thor also contains underlying spiritual themes for those who are looking for them. Though Thor and the other Asgardians have often been seen as pagan deities, the Marvel comics and the film tend to treat them differently. The comics have described the Asgardians simply as aliens who are so advanced that their technology is indistinguishable from magic, even to themselves. The movie echoes this sentiment when Thor tells Jane that he comes from a place where science and magic are the same thing. Thor and the other Asgardians in this film do not necessarily consider themselves gods; rather, the universe in which they exist tries to blend science and the supernatural together. In this day and age of intellectualism and faithlessness, Jane's fellow scientists are initially skeptical that Thor could actually be supernatural. However, Jane's encounters with Thor stretch the limits of her belief, and at one point she finds herself arguing that the existence of the supernatural isn't such a foolish idea and doesn't necessarily have to contradict intellectualism. She is later proven correct when Thor's full godlike powers return to him on display for all to see. Thor is a film which advocates a reasonable belief in the supernatural and in things or beings which we cannot see or fully explain.






thor-movie-game-sega.jpg



4be8baea16b25.jpg


For other good places for review:
__________________



Avengers+Earth%2527s+Mightiest+Heroes+-+04+Thor+the+Mighty.avi_snapshot_03.01_%255B2010.12.08_12.14.32%255D.jpg




__________________​

As a big comic books fan growing up, it really bothered me to see how much it seems there was truly a heavy amount of worldviews being pushed via comics that seems to slowly indoctrinate others to going back into things akin to what occurred with Christianity when encountering Barbarian peoples..with the viewpoints of the Barbarians being reinterpreted to seem as if they're valid.​

And for any of those who are Orthodox lovers of comics, I'm curious if you've noticed the same. Do you feel that within comics there is a push toward barbarianism and the Old Gods of Myth/legend----with Neo Paganism coming back into view as opposed to Christianity having dominance in the media? Or are those seeing such reading into things? And if it Barbarianism being pushed, is it appropriate for believers to use such things like the media outlet to make room for discussion to occur? I greatly wish to get involved in the world of comics and using them for the glory of the Lord--but I do feel that it seems to be a bit dangerous at times when it seems like there's so much theology being pushed through the comic world...where science, magic, aliens, and even God/angels co-exist in a way that says all things are equal/can be explained in natural ways.​

For some excellent sites documenting the many religions depicted within the world of comics (including worship of other deities), one can go here to the following:​


Also, as the people from "Boundless Webzine" said best in their review:

As C.S. Lewis sarcastically wrote:


Avoid silence, avoid solitude, avoid any train of thought that leads off the beaten track. Concentrate on money, sex, status, health and (above all) on your own grievances. Keep the radio on. Live in a crowd. Use plenty of sedation. If you must read books, select them very carefully. But you'd be safer to stick to the papers. You'll find the advertisements helpful; especially those with a sexy or a snobbish appeal. (Christian Reflections, pp. 168-169)




The Christian community must do a better job of showing people how to ask the questions that make a person media literate. If we are indeed the "royal priesthood" that we are described as, then our job description includes the command of Ezekiel 44:23, "They are to teach my people the difference between the holy and the common and show them how to distinguish between the unclean and the clean."

We must live not as passive sponges but as mindful agents. As Bill Romanowski (author and Calvin College professor) says, "There's some good stuff out there and lots of bad stuff and, if people are going to live as mature Christians, they're going to have to learn to tell the difference."


Every book has a perspective. Every TV show was written, directed and produced by people with perspectives and worldviews. Every article of every magazine that sits on the shelves of our local bookstore or airport gift shop has a perspective. And yes, every movie that hits the silver screen has a worldview driving it.



Our call is not to abandon the media, but to make ourselves "priests" of the culture and help our brothers and sisters in Christ understand that "it's never just a movie."



If any Orthodox have had some of the same battles, I'd greatly appreciate it :)
 
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InnerPhyre

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As the author points out, Thor and his ilk in the comics are aliens, not gods. I don't see a problem with it and I haven't seen a huge neo-pagan push in comics. I have a bigger problem with the moral ambiguity that prevails in many new comics, especially ones like Spawn where the good guy is actually a bad guy. This is a much bigger problem in my opinion.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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As the author points out, Thor and his ilk in the comics are aliens, not gods. I don't see a problem with it and I haven't seen a huge neo-pagan push in comics. I have a bigger problem with the moral ambiguity that prevails in many new comics, especially ones like Spawn where the good guy is actually a bad guy. This is a much bigger problem in my opinion.
I think where alot of people are cautious is where others have taken the points about Thor/other comics with similar themes and have said that even with Christian theology, it's akin to mythology that saw natural occurrences/creatures (i.e. aliens/other beings) and said they were "God" or "Angels" and "the Messiah"....saying all accounts of the Divine are not truly so. And it does seem that Paganism has been something people are slipping back into, even though not all aspects of it are necessarily counter to a biblical worldview. For an excellent article, one can consider the following:


I agree with you on the moral ambiguity dyamic, especially when it comes to things like Spawn--a man turned demon who was supposed to be working for Hell and yet he's rebelling against Hell while Heaven is painted in a negative light when showing how there's corruption on both sides. Never really understood why the comic was so popular, but it has been surprising to see how many were open to a whole list of things from the comic as if it were possible that such would occur--and they'd hold those beliefs simultaneously with their views of Christianity/the CHurch.

And there've been team-ups between Spawn and others from the same comic makers of D.C and Marvel (the ones who made Thor)

Things like Ghost Rider would be added to the list--and whenever the comics have added angels/God into the COmic Universe and portrayed him alongside other "gods" as essentially being equal, I have a real issue with that.
 
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Lirenel

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My two cents: I think it depends on how the 'pagan' creations are used. You quoted C. S. Lewis. Well, in Prince Caspian one of the characters was the god Bacchus, and dryads and naiads (nature goddesses) appear throughout the Chronicles. But he used them in a way where they were pointing towards God as Lord. Lewis was a big proponent, along with Tolkien, of the fact that there were bits of 'truth' in ancient pagan beliefs that pointed towards Christ. St. Paul pointed towards the fact that the Greeks worshiped 'The Unknown God' and revealed to them that the god was Christ. And, while I only heard this peripherally, I heard that the native peoples of Alaska welcomed Orthodox missionaries because their shamans had prophesied that the full truth would be brought to them by men with beards and crosses - the Alaskan natives saw the missionaries as fulfilling their own beliefs.

I would say that secular beliefs that have made 'the self' into a god are more dangerous. At least in pagan beliefs they are acknowledging that there is a higher power in the universe. Secularism is all about 'you'.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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My two cents: I think it depends on how the 'pagan' creations are used. You quoted C. S. Lewis. Well, in Prince Caspian one of the characters was the god Bacchus, and dryads and naiads (nature goddesses) appear throughout the Chronicles. But he used them in a way where they were pointing towards God as Lord. Lewis was a big proponent, along with Tolkien, of the fact that there were bits of 'truth' in ancient pagan beliefs that pointed towards Christ. St. Paul pointed towards the fact that the Greeks worshiped 'The Unknown God' and revealed to them that the god was Christ. And, while I only heard this peripherally, I heard that the native peoples of Alaska welcomed Orthodox missionaries because their shamans had prophesied that the full truth would be brought to them by men with beards and crosses - the Alaskan natives saw the missionaries as fulfilling their own beliefs.
.
Excellent points..and with other cultures having "previews" of what's to come, it makes much sense to see how paganism can be utilized to spread the Gospel, provided that others are pointed to that rather than feeling they're complete with the sign posts that they had in paganism





As another noted to me, the mythic stories of the gods are classics and probably related to archetypal patterns common to the human mind . They aren't going to be disappearing any time soon. Probably not something we could destroy or purge even if we wanted too. They would just come back again with a new name. If someone said they were going to destroy the archetypal love story or hero myth they would certainly have a lot of work ahead of them lol. Even in the Christian medieval period the stories continued to be told under the names of mythologized saints.


Stuff based on old mythology doesn't bother me at all levels per se. Just as St. Paul praised the Greek poets for the truth they had, some ancient mythologies sometimes depicted with some truth the concept of good versus evil, or a singular master deity, or some other such parallel to divine revelation in Christianity. For God did reveal Himself through nature and other ways even to Gentiles prior to Christ, according even to Scripture! (Rom 1:19ff)

I would say that secular beliefs that have made 'the self' into a god are more dangerous. At least in pagan beliefs they are acknowledging that there is a higher power in the universe. Secularism is all about 'you'
The differences between Humanism and Paganism are indeed interesting to consider
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I think the paganism that can come creeping in is how graphic they are becoming. it is not uncommon to see sex, drug abuse, gore, etc in comics now. and I say this as a huge Batman nerd.
I hate the fact that there's so much sex/drug abuse going on within the comic book world and making it as if you're watching an adult film. I was shocked to see some sex scenes within the world of comic books like Batman or Superman and it really disappointed me...and when it seemed to be coming up even in things like X-Men (my favorite comic of all time) as well as other things, I was floored. It truly shocked me how inappropriate behavior with animals things have become and are rapidly changing into...
 
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Dorothea

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I think the paganism that can come creeping in is how graphic they are becoming. it is not uncommon to see sex, drug abuse, gore, etc in comics now. and I say this as a huge Batman nerd.

Even the Archies comic books are more racy. :(
 
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Dorothea

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Easy G (G²);59570873 said:
Archie too? Perhaps I missed it, although I did have suspicions...
I grew up reading and tracing the characters from the Archies (even had the dolls). But the past year, checking out their digest comics, the kissing is now not as clean....it shows more evidence of french kissing (just the way the mouths are locked together). I'm not sure I'd say the clothes are exactly more risque because I think they were at times back when I read them. Of course, reading the dialogue on the dating and such sounds so shallow now to me. ^_^ They supposedly introduced a homosexual character a couple years ago. I didn't see that in the last year or two at a few of the comics I read a bit at the grocery store (and some I took with me on the plane, believe or not, when we went to Greece back in May 2010).

ah well. I still like the old Archies comics.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Gxg (G²)

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I grew up reading and tracing the characters from the Archies (even had the dolls). But the past year, checking out their digest comics, the kissing is now not as clean....it shows more evidence of french kissing (just the way the mouths are locked together). I'm not sure I'd say the clothes are exactly more risque because I think they were at times back when I read them. Of course, reading the dialogue on the dating and such sounds so shallow now to me. ^_^ They supposedly introduced a homosexual character a couple years ago. I didn't see that in the last year or two at a few of the comics I read a bit at the grocery store (and some I took with me on the plane, believe or not, when we went to Greece back in May 2010).

ah well. I still like the old Archies comics.
Wild...
 
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Black Widow was an Orthodox Russian. Elektra Nachios was Orthodox.

Easy G (G²);60160886 said:
Are there any Orthodox individuals that've been represented within comics?
 
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A while back I was reading my Marvel Masterworks reprints of the original issue with Colossus. Nothing like having Professor Xavier come to your Soviet commie collective farm circa 1970 and have him recruit ya! :p

Colossus is Russian Orthodox, and when he died from the legacy virus he had an Orthodox funeral
 
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Easy G (G²);59568510 said:
I was writing this due to how it seems that there seems to be a shift/trend I've noticed in the world of comics....and that shift that I never picked up on was how many of the comics, be it DC or Marvel or others, have had worldviews heavily pushed in theme that are very much focused upon theology discussions which make it seem as if those theologies of the Old Ways/Paganism are normal and to be considered alongsie Christianity as if they are simply ways of expressing the world that are valid. There was a book I read recently on the subject that really had me processing, entitled The Barbarian Conversion: from Paganism to Christianity--




For more, one can click here or here. Fletcher's history covers the years from the 200's AD, beginning with the earliest European missionary, Gregory Thaumaturgis, until 1386, when Lithuania was brought into the fold--just 1100 years to convert all of Europe from Iberia to Greenland, Iceland and the British Isles to Scandinavia and the Baltics from their tribalism, provincialism, and paganism to Christianity, kingdoms, Latin, Roman law, and a sense that the entire region was a whole. It was truly brilliant to consider the ways in which Paganism tended to fade away as Christianity took more influence in converting the kings of the nations and making Christianity more wide-spread legally....while the pagan views either adapted by taking the names of their gods/changing them to fit "Christian" ones or choosing to lay low until a time they could spring back forth again....subverting things subtely under the radar before anyone would notice and see how there was transformation from the inside out. For when it was about survival, it was best to find ways to co-opt the dominant religion by saying that all of those involved were akin to the minority religion in small ways.

And in many ways, it seems like this is happening again in an era where Christianity used to be dominant around the world and yet has been slowly losing influence...with the pagan view seeming to reinsert itself in differing ways we all grew up with.



In example, the film "Thor" that recently came out is something to consider. Over the centuries, Norse mythology, like its Greek and Roman counterparts, has been appropriated by artists seeking to enlighten as well as by those with the more modest goal of providing entertainment. Based on the exploits of the titular Marvel Comics superhero, "Thor" (Paramount) falls satisfyingly into the latter category.

For the Christian audiences who too quickly dismiss the film for its focus on pagan mythology, they should be aware the movie very clearly explains its Norse pantheon is made of neither gods nor angels nor demons. In fact, there's almost nothing pagan about "Thor" at all.

Instead, the characters Odin, Thor and Loki are portrayed in the film as an alien race of superior technology who visited Earth 1,000 years ago and whose "powers" were only mistaken for divinity. When the aliens returned home, they became objects of worship, myth and legend among the Norse people.

"Once mankind accepted a simple truth," the movie states, "we are not alone in this universe." The quote carries a double meaning here, both in the idea that there are aliens out there, but also, as the aliens are Norse "gods," that there is God out there too. It's a clever line, for it sets up a recurring theme of the clash between believing in the supernatural and our more modern, "scientific" insistence on only accepting the natural, empirically provable as truth. Along those lines, one of the women in the film quotes, "Magic is just science we don't understand yet." Thor later explains, "Your ancestors called it magic. You call it science. I come from a place where they are one and the same." Is she right? Or are there things naturalist "science" can't explain?

As said best in one review called CCAS MOVIE REVIEW: Thor - Christian Comic Arts Society:






Thor_poster.jpg
In addition to being a fun action movie, Thor also contains underlying spiritual themes for those who are looking for them. Though Thor and the other Asgardians have often been seen as pagan deities, the Marvel comics and the film tend to treat them differently. The comics have described the Asgardians simply as aliens who are so advanced that their technology is indistinguishable from magic, even to themselves. The movie echoes this sentiment when Thor tells Jane that he comes from a place where science and magic are the same thing. Thor and the other Asgardians in this film do not necessarily consider themselves gods; rather, the universe in which they exist tries to blend science and the supernatural together. In this day and age of intellectualism and faithlessness, Jane's fellow scientists are initially skeptical that Thor could actually be supernatural. However, Jane's encounters with Thor stretch the limits of her belief, and at one point she finds herself arguing that the existence of the supernatural isn't such a foolish idea and doesn't necessarily have to contradict intellectualism. She is later proven correct when Thor's full godlike powers return to him on display for all to see. Thor is a film which advocates a reasonable belief in the supernatural and in things or beings which we cannot see or fully explain.


thor-movie-game-sega.jpg

thor_movie_reveal.jpg




For other good places for review:
__________________



Avengers+Earth%2527s+Mightiest+Heroes+-+04+Thor+the+Mighty.avi_snapshot_03.01_%255B2010.12.08_12.14.32%255D.jpg












__________________​

As a big comic books fan growing up, it really bothered me to see how much it seems there was truly a heavy amount of worldviews being pushed via comics that seems to slowly indoctrinate others to going back into things akin to what occurred with Christianity when encountering Barbarian peoples..with the viewpoints of the Barbarians being reinterpreted to seem as if they're valid.​

And for any of those who are Orthodox lovers of comics, I'm curious if you've noticed the same. Do you feel that within comics there is a push toward barbarianism and the Old Gods of Myth/legend----with Neo Paganism coming back into view as opposed to Christianity having dominance in the media? Or are those seeing such reading into things? And if it Barbarianism being pushed, is it appropriate for believers to use such things like the media outlet to make room for discussion to occur? I greatly wish to get involved in the world of comics and using them for the glory of the Lord--but I do feel that it seems to be a bit dangerous at times when it seems like there's so much theology being pushed through the comic world...where science, magic, aliens, and even God/angels co-exist in a way that says all things are equal/can be explained in natural ways.​

For some excellent sites documenting the many religions depicted within the world of comics (including worship of other deities), one can go here to the following:​


Also, as the people from "Boundless Webzine" said best in their review:

As C.S. Lewis sarcastically wrote:


Avoid silence, avoid solitude, avoid any train of thought that leads off the beaten track. Concentrate on money, sex, status, health and (above all) on your own grievances. Keep the radio on. Live in a crowd. Use plenty of sedation. If you must read books, select them very carefully. But you'd be safer to stick to the papers. You'll find the advertisements helpful; especially those with a sexy or a snobbish appeal. (Christian Reflections, pp. 168-169)




The Christian community must do a better job of showing people how to ask the questions that make a person media literate. If we are indeed the "royal priesthood" that we are described as, then our job description includes the command of Ezekiel 44:23, "They are to teach my people the difference between the holy and the common and show them how to distinguish between the unclean and the clean."


We must live not as passive sponges but as mindful agents. As Bill Romanowski (author and Calvin College professor) says, "There's some good stuff out there and lots of bad stuff and, if people are going to live as mature Christians, they're going to have to learn to tell the difference."


Every book has a perspective. Every TV show was written, directed and produced by people with perspectives and worldviews. Every article of every magazine that sits on the shelves of our local bookstore or airport gift shop has a perspective. And yes, every movie that hits the silver screen has a worldview driving it.



Our call is not to abandon the media, but to make ourselves "priests" of the culture and help our brothers and sisters in Christ understand that "it's never just a movie."



If any Orthodox have had some of the same battles, I'd greatly appreciate it :)

If anyone seriously thinks the abortion that is the Thor comic series is "bringing back paganism", they really need to read the Elder Eddas and see what said paganism actually is.
 
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Eastern Drifter

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I'm a staunch Marvel fan. Mocking Thor or criticizing Iron Man or any of the Avengers, for that matter, is pure heresy! :p

As a teen it was ALL about Daredevil for me!

I wanted to see what you had to say about this, and sure enough. . .

IMO, Frank Miller was at his best with Daredevil. Not a huge fan of his other works.
 
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