Matthew 1:1

Timothew · Mar 14, 2012

Matthew 9:27

και παραγοντι εκειθεν τω ιησου ηκολουθησαν αυτω δυο τυφλοι κραζοντες και λεγοντες ελεησον ημας υιε δαυιδ

And going-around there the Jesus followed him two blind (men) shouting and saying have-mercy-on us son David.

When Jesus went on from there, two blind men followed him shouting, "Have mercy on us, Son of David!"

he-man · Mar 14, 2012

Timothew said:
Matthew 9:27

και παραγοντι εκειθεν τω ιησου ηκολουθησαν αυτω δυο τυφλοι κραζοντες και λεγοντες ελεησον ημας υιε δαυιδ

And going-around there the Jesus followed him two blind (men) shouting and saying have-mercy-on us son David.

When Jesus went on from there, two blind men followed him shouting, "Have mercy on us, Son of David!"

Mat 9:27 And as Jesus withdrew from that place, two blind pursued him, crying, and saying, have compassion for us Son of David.

Mat 9:27 και παραγοντι εκειθεν τω ιησου ηκολουθησαν αυτω δυο τυφλοι κραζοντες και λεγοντες ελεησον ημας υιος δαυιδ

Timothew · Mar 16, 2012

Matthew 9:28

ελθοντι δε εις την οικιαν προσηλθον αυτω οι τυφλοι και λεγει αυτοις ο ιησους πιστευετε οτι δυναμαι τουτο ποιησαι λεγουσιν αυτω ναι κυριε

Coming but into the house came-to him the blind and told them the Jesus believe that able this do they-told him yes lord

When he entered the house the blind men came to him and Jesus asked them, "Do you believe that I am able to do this?"
They answered him, "Yes, Lord."

he-man · Mar 16, 2012

Timothew said:
Matthew 9:28

ελθοντι δε εις την οικιαν προσηλθον αυτω οι τυφλοι και λεγει αυτοις ο ιησους πιστευετε οτι δυναμαι τουτο ποιησαι λεγουσιν αυτω ναι κυριε

Coming but into the house came-to him the blind and told them the Jesus believe that able this do they-told him yes lord

When he entered the house the blind men came to him and Jesus asked them, "Do you believe that I am able to do this?"
They answered him, "Yes, Lord."

Mat 9:28 And coming into the house, the blind came near to him: and saying to them the Jesus, Do you believe that I am able to do this? said to him, Yes, Lord.

Mat 9:28 ελθοντι δε εις την οικιαν προσηλθον αυτω οι τυφλοι και λεγει αυτοις ο ιησους πιστευετε οτι δυναμαι τουτο ποιησαι λεγουσιν αυτω ναι κυριε

he-man · Mar 30, 2012

Timothew said:
Matthew 9:?

Where are you? Here is Matthew 9:29
29 Then he touched their eyes, while saying, According to your faith, let it be to you.
Mat 9:29 τοτε ηψατο he/she/it-was-TOUCH-ed των οφθαλμων αυτων λεγων κατα την πιστιν υμων γενηθητω υμιν

ηψατο Lemma ἅπτω ε·απτ·σατο he/she/it-was-TOUCH-ed 1st aorist mp ind 3rd sg
γενηθητω Lemma γίνομαι let-him/her/it-be-BECOME/HAPPEN-ed aorist θη imperfect 3rd person singular

Timothew · Mar 31, 2012

he-man said:
Where are you?

I'm a little depressed. I'm wondering what's the use. Nobody goes to UT to discover the truth, and Annihilationism isn't allowed to be discussed anywhere else. The Cult of Torturism controls the board and doesn't allow a fair discussion. We argue circles around their illogical scripture twisting but it doesn't do any good.

Timothew · Mar 31, 2012

Matthew 9:29

τοτε ηψατο των οφθαλμων αυτων λεγων κατα την πιστιν υμων γενηθητω υμιν

Then touched the eyes their saying "According-to the faith your it-has-been-done (for) you-all."

Then he touched their eyes saying, "According to your faith, this has been done for you all."

he-man · Mar 31, 2012

Timothew said:
I'm a little depressed. I'm wondering what's the use. Nobody goes to UT to discover the truth, and Annihilationism isn't allowed to be discussed anywhere else. The Cult of Torturism controls the board and doesn't allow a fair discussion. We argue circles around their illogical scripture twisting but it doesn't do any good.

I know what you mean, however, think about the many obstacles Christ and the disciples faced when they preached the word and how many rejected that word in favor of the Roman/Greek gods.

It was very discouraging to only have around 500 followers, whereas many denominations today claim to have millions.

I must admonish you to "keep up the good fight" not only for others but for your well being also.

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

Your brother In Christ,
Roy

Timothew · Mar 31, 2012

he-man said:
I know what you mean, however, think about the many obstacles Christ and the disciples faced when they preached the word and how many rejected that word in favor of the Roman/Greek gods.

It was very discouraging to only have around 500 followers, whereas many denominations today claim to have millions.

I must admonish you to "keep up the good fight" not only for others but for your well being also.

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

Your brother In Christ,
Roy

I know, I hold on to this. It isn't until the end that everything is set right. I hold onto this scripture:
οιδα σου τα εργα ιδου δεδωκα ενωπιον σου θυραν ανεωγμενην ην ουδεις δυναται κλεισαι αυτην οτι μικραν εχεις δυναμιν και ετηρησας μου τον λογον και ουκ ηρνησω το ονομα μου ιδου διδωμι εκ της συναγωγης του σατανα των λεγοντων εαυτους ιουδαιους ειναι και ουκ εισιν αλλα ψευδονται ιδου ποιησω αυτους ινα ηξωσιν και προσκυνησωσιν ενωπιον των ποδων σου και γνωσιν οτι ηγαπησα σε.

God will reveal the truth in the end and it will be obvious to all that He is not torturing anyone.

Timothew · Apr 1, 2012

Matthew 9:30

και ανεωχθησαν αυτων οι οφθαλμοι και ενεβριμησατο αυτοις ο ιησους λεγων ορατε μηδεις γινωσκετω

And they-opened their the eyes and sternly-instructed them the Jesus said see no-one make-known

And they opened their eyes and Jesus sternly-instructed them, "See that no one knows about this."

ἐνεβριμήθη from ἐμβριμάομαι
snort (with the notion of coercion springing out of displeasure, anger, indignation, antagonism), express indignant displeasure with some one; charge sternly.

createdtoworship · Apr 1, 2012

he-man said:
Correction Mat 9:13
Mat 9:13 But make your way to know about to what extent it is I will have compassion, and not offerings as a sacrifice: for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.
Mat 9:13 πορευθεντες δε μαθετε τι εστιν ελεος θελω και ου θυσιαν ου γαρ ηλθον καλεσαι δικαιους αλλα αμαρτωλους

good one

but you forgot repentance,

13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The Holy Bible : King James Version. electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995, S. Mt 9:13

nicene fathers are quoted saying the long ending of this verse

"“I am not come to call righteous men, but sinners to repentance.”
St John Crysostom
Schaff, Philip: The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers Vol. X. Oak Harbor : Logos Research Systems, 1997, S. 201

same thing with mark 2:17 KJV
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

I realize it's not in the best texts NOW, but then it may have been. Because John crysostom quotes the long ending.

Timothew · Apr 1, 2012

Matthew 9:31

οι δε εξελθοντες διεφημισαν αυτον εν ολη τη γη εκεινη

They but going-out reported him in the-whole the land that

But they went out and reported about him in that whole land.

Timothew · Apr 1, 2012

gradyll said:
good one

Hi Gradyll, Welcome to the study of Matthew, it's good to see you here. I hope we can set aside our differences for a while.

On Matthew 9:13 it depends on which manuscripts a person is looking at.
He-man is looking at UBS4 manuscripts (I think), and I've been in the Byzantine manuscripts.

πορευθέντες δὲ μάθετε τί ἐστιν· ἔλεος θέλω καὶ οὐ θυσίαν· οὐ γὰρ ἦλθον καλέσαι δικαίους ἀλλὰ ἁμαρτωλούς.

πορευθέντες δὲ μάθετε τί ἐστιν, Ἔλεον θέλω καὶ οὐ θυσίαν· οὐ γὰρ ἦλθον καλέσαι δικαίους, ἀλλὰ ἁμαρτωλούς εἰς μετάνοιαν.

The Byzantine group includes εἰς μετάνοιαν - into repentance. Apparently early manuscripts don't include εἰς μετάνοιαν.

I'm not getting into which is better, I'm just sticking to Byzantine because that's the object of my study. In my regular bible reading I study UBS4.

createdtoworship · Apr 1, 2012

Timothew said:
Hi Gradyll, Welcome to the study of Matthew, it's good to see you here. I hope we can set aside our differences for a while.

On Matthew 9:13 it depends on which manuscripts a person is looking at.
He-man is looking at UBS4 manuscripts (I think), and I've been in the Byzantine manuscripts.

πορευθέντες δὲ μάθετε τί ἐστιν· ἔλεος θέλω καὶ οὐ θυσίαν· οὐ γὰρ ἦλθον καλέσαι δικαίους ἀλλὰ ἁμαρτωλούς.

πορευθέντες δὲ μάθετε τί ἐστιν, Ἔλεον θέλω καὶ οὐ θυσίαν· οὐ γὰρ ἦλθον καλέσαι δικαίους, ἀλλὰ ἁμαρτωλούς εἰς μετάνοιαν.

The Byzantine group includes εἰς μετάνοιαν - into repentance. Apparently early manuscripts don't include εἰς μετάνοιαν.

I'm not getting into which is better, I'm just sticking to Byzantine because that's the object of my study. In my regular bible reading I study UBS4.

interesting thing is Chrysostom quoted a text that was byzantine too. The earliest dates of the byzantine come in right at the end of Chrysostom's life. So it is possible that Chrysostom had some other copy that was actually quite the same as byzantine. Just a note I was thinking of.

Timothew · Apr 1, 2012

I think that there are early manuscripts that are the same as the Byzantine manuscripts, but they were destroyed when the fresh manuscripts were prepared.

I like the Byzantine manuscripts, but my likes are not relevant.

createdtoworship · Apr 1, 2012

Timothew said:
I think that there are early manuscripts that are the same as the Byzantine manuscripts, but they were destroyed when the fresh manuscripts were prepared.

I like the Byzantine manuscripts, but my likes are not relevant.

Many quotes from the early church confirms it was in existence or a similar one. Thats one reason why I trust it. Good, that you like it....I do to.

he-man · Apr 1, 2012

Timothew said:
Matthew 9:30

και ανεωχθησαν αυτων οι οφθαλμοι και ενεβριμησατο αυτοις ο ιησους λεγων ορατε μηδεις γινωσκετω

And they-opened their the eyes and sternly-instructed them the Jesus said see no-one make-known

And they opened their eyes and Jesus sternly-instructed them, "See that no one knows about this."

ἐνεβριμήθη from ἐμβριμάομαι
snort (with the notion of coercion springing out of displeasure, anger, indignation, antagonism), express indignant displeasure with some one; charge sternly.

Mat 9:30 And their eyes they were OPENED-UP; and [as being unworthy] Jesus CENSURED them, saying, You should see that no one is to be knowing it.

Mat 9:30 και ηνεωχθησαν αυτων οι οφθαλμοι και ενεβριμηθη αυτοις ο ιησους λεγων ορατε μηδεις γινωσκετω
ἐνεβριμήθη ἐμβριμάομαι εν·ε·βριμη·θη aor θη ind 3rd sg he/she/it-was-CENSURE-ed DnOG 11:30 have indignation against as being unworthy

he-man · Apr 1, 2012

Timothew said:
Hi Gradyll, Welcome to the study of Matthew, it's good to see you here. I hope we can set aside our differences for a while.

On Matthew 9:13 it depends on which manuscripts a person is looking at.
He-man is looking at UBS4 manuscripts (I think), and I've been in the Byzantine manuscripts.

πορευθέντες δὲ μάθετε τί ἐστιν· ἔλεος θέλω καὶ οὐ θυσίαν· οὐ γὰρ ἦλθον καλέσαι δικαίους ἀλλὰ ἁμαρτωλούς.

πορευθέντες δὲ μάθετε τί ἐστιν, Ἔλεον θέλω καὶ οὐ θυσίαν· οὐ γὰρ ἦλθον καλέσαι δικαίους, ἀλλὰ ἁμαρτωλούς εἰς μετάνοιαν.

The Byzantine group includes εἰς μετάνοιαν - into repentance. Apparently early manuscripts don't include εἰς μετάνοιαν.

I'm not getting into which is better, I'm just sticking to Byzantine because that's the object of my study. In my regular bible reading I study UBS4.

That is partially correct and that is what I use, "A" along with "B" and the rest and is what Mt 12:6 means!
Mat 12:6 λεγω δε υμιν οτι του ιερου BAμειζον εστιν ωδε

he-man · Apr 2, 2012

he-man said:
That is partially correct and that is what I use, "A" along with "B" and the rest and is what Mt 12:6 means!
Mat 12:6 λεγω δε υμιν οτι του ιερου BAμειζον εστιν ωδε

Mat 9:31 But they went out and spread his word there in the whole land

Mat 9:31 οι δε εξελθοντες διεφημισαν αυτον εν ολη τη γη εκεινη

Timothew · Apr 3, 2012

Matthew 9:32

αυτων δε εξερχομενων ιδου προσηνεγκαν αυτω ανθρωπον κωφον δαιμονιζομενον

They but going-out behold they-brought-to him man mute being-afflicted-by-a-daimon.

As they were going out, some people brought him a mute man who was being afflicted by a daimon.

δαιμονιζόμενον from δαιμονίζομαι

Strong's is more helpful than Thayer's on this.
To be afflicted by an evil spirit, to be a demoniac.

Quoting Strong's

It is much disputed whether the writers of the NT used this word to denote the actual presence of evil spirits in the persons affected, or whether they employed it only in compliance with popular usage and belief, just as we now use the word "lunatic" without assenting to the old opinion of the influence of the moon. A serious difficulty in the way of this latter supposition is that the demoniacs everywhere at once address Jesus as the Messiah.

Thayer's

δαιμονίζομαι; 1 aorist passive participle δαιμονισθείς; (δαίμω&#957

; to be under the power of a demon: ἄλλος κατ' ἄλλην δαιμονίζεται τυχην, Philemon 1 in Stobaeus, ecl. phys. 1, p. 196; of the insane, Plutarch, symp. 7, 5, 4, and in other later authors. In the N. T. δαιμονιζόμενοι are persons afflicted with especially severe diseases, either bodily or mental (such as paralysis, blindness, deafness, loss of speech, epilepsy, melancholy, insanity, etc.), whose bodies in the opinion of the Jews demons (see δαιμόνιο&#957

had entered, and so held possession of them as not only to afflict them with ills, but also to dethrone the reason and take its place themselves; accordingly, the possessed were accustomed to express the mind and consciousness of the demons dwelling in them; and their cure was thought to require the expulsion of the demon (but on this subject see B. D. American edition under the word Demoniacs and references there; Weiss, Leben Jesu, book iii., chapter 6)

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