a question about the kind of fire that is in hell

3 Angels Messages said:

The punishment is eternal. They are dead forever. The 2nd Death from which there is no resurrection.

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Then there would be no need for the word 'eternal'. They would just be dead.

dollarsbill said:

Then there would be no need for the word 'eternal'. They would just be dead.

Click to expand...

No. That's why the Bible mentions several kinds of death.

3 Angels Messages said:

No. That's why the Bible mentions several kinds of death.

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Death does not mean 'cease to exist'.

dollarsbill said:

Death does not mean 'cease to exist'.

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So you are saying that the devil and all the wicked angels and all the wicked from Cain down throught time, unto the last man just before the 2nd Advent will live forever?

How then is God just in their punishment, since they all receive the same reward and even eternal life at that?

Why then is it [eternal life] called the "gift" that goes to the saints?

A "gift" is something which is given [added unto], not inherent.

3 Angels Messages said:

So you are saying that the devil and all the wicked angels and all the wicked from Cain down throught time, unto the last man just before the 2nd Advent will live forever?

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Actually God said it.

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

dollarsbill said:

Actually God said it.

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)...

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Already addressed, and the answer has not changed in the last 30 minutes:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7645147-5/#post60154504

...

Please consider:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]What did Job teach?

There the wicked cease [from] troubling; and there the weary be at rest. Job 3:17

[There] the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor. Job 3:18

The small and great are there; and the servant [is] free from his master. Job 3:19

The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no [more]: thine eyes [are] upon me, and I [am] not. Job 7:8

[As] the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no [more]. Job 7:9

He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more. Job 7:10

So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens [be] no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14:12

O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! Job 14:13

If a man die, shall he live [again]? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Job 14:14

His sons come to honour, and he knoweth [it] not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth [it] not of them. Job 14:21

If I wait, the grave [is] mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness. Job 17:13

They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when [our] rest together [is] in the dust. Job 17:16

One dieth in his full strength, being wholly at ease and quiet. Job 21:23

And another dieth in the bitterness of his soul, and never eateth with pleasure. Job 21:25

They shall lie down alike in the dust, and the worms shall cover them. Job 21:26

Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb. Job 21:32

What did Solomon teach?

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5

Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun. Ecclesiastes 9:6

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might; for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Ecclesiastes 9:10

What did God and other scripture teach?

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Genesis 2:17In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return. Genesis 3:19 [see also Genesis 3:22-24]

Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Psalms 104:29
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

What does the Old Testament teach?

So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David. 1 Kings 2:10

"slept with his fathers" [1 Kings 2:10, 11:21,43, 14:20,31, 15:8,24, 16:6,28, 22:40,50; 2 Kings 8:24, 10:35, 13:9,13, 14:16,22,29, 15:7,22,38, 16:20, 20:21, 21:18, 24:6; 2 Chronicles 9:31, 12:16, 14:1, 16:13, 21:1, 26:2,23, 27:9, 28:27, 32:33, 33:20]

Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand. Psalms 88:5

Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps. Psalms 88:6

Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise [and] praise thee? Selah. Psalms 88:10

Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? [or] thy faithfulness in destruction? Psalms 88:11

Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness? Psalms 88:12
Consider [and] hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the [sleep of] death; Psalms 13:3

The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115:17

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4

What does the serpent teach?

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Genesis 3:4

Who only hath "immortality"?

That thou keep [this] commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 1 Timothy 6:14

Which in his times he shall shew, [who is] the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 1 Timothy 6:15

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:16

Is man "immortal" in any way, or rather "mortal"?

Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker? Job 4:17[/FONT]

Enough of the copy and paste. How about verse for verse?

dollarsbill said:

Enough of the copy and paste. How about verse for verse?

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Let us look together at the scriptures on the subject of life/death, in what happens to those who have died, Old and New Testaments, resurrections, and the teaching of Christ and the Apostles and Disciples. By looking at this particular subject we can more fully understand several other subjects which are related.

What did Jesus, the author of Life, teach about this subject of death [2 examples]?

[Little Girl]

While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live. Matthew 9:18

He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. Matthew 9:24

But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose. Matthew 9:25

*******

While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's [house certain] which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further? Mark 5:35

And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. Mark 5:39

And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying. Mark 5:40

And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise. Mark 5:41

*******

While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's [house], saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master. Luke 8:49

And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth. Luke 8:52

And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead. Luke 8:53

And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise. Luke 8:54

Do we believe Jesus, or shall we also laugh Him to scorn for saying such?

*******

[Lazarus]

These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. John 11:11

Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. John 11:13

Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. John 11:14

Then when Jesus came, he found that he had [lain] in the grave four days already. John 11:17

Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. John 11:21

Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. John 11:23

Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. John 11:24

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25

Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. John 11:32

And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died? John 11:37

Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it. John 11:38

Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been [dead] four days. John 11:39

Then they took away the stone [from the place] where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up [his] eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. John 11:41

And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. John 11:43

And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. John 11:44

*******

What did Peter teach on this subject? Let us go to a powerful lesson in Acts 2:

The Apostle Simon 'Peter' Barjona, filled with the Holy Spirit, raises his voice and begins speaking, teaching and orating. He is not alone in this, for not only is this message signified and approved by the Holy Spirit Himself, he is also surrounded by the other 11 Apostles of Christ Jesus and the remaining Disciples that were with them. The Apostle Simon 'Peter' Barjona then before the crowd in Jerusalem, in a teaching and expounding manner, directly quotes from both the Prophets Joel and King David, as well as from the Psalms.

Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Acts 2:29

For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Acts 2:34

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. 2 Peter 3:4

Good King David, a man after God's own heart, though he had his downfall, is Dead … Buried … not in Heaven … and even moreso his Tomb was still with them all. So says the Apostle Simon 'Peter' Barjona himself by the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures. Ought we then not to believe him? If not, how about the scriptures which agreed with him and others such as Paul and/or Jesus?

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts 2:42

Shall we not want to continue stedfastly in the Apostle's doctrine and fellowship on this subject? What begins to happen if we do not?

What does Luke [physician/historian] teach and record about the Apostle and Martyr Stephen?

And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Acts 7:60

What does Paul teach on David, and others who have died previously?

For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: Acts 13:36

[Paul Agrees with Peter in Acts 2, which agrees with the OT scripture]

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 1 Corinthians 15:6

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1 Thessalonians 4:13

What did John the Apostle teach by the Holy Spirit in Revelation?

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. Revelation 14:13
What did Daniel the Prophet teach?

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2[/FONT]

When you can discuss a verse at a time rather that dumping SDA doctrine let me know.

dollarsbill said:

When you can discuss a verse at a time let me know.

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I have, but it was refused. I can do nothing more than present what the scriptures say.

Let us take a look at what lies the serpent [satan, devil, dragon] teaches for a moment:

"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" [Genesis 3:1]


"And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:" [Genesis 3:2]


"But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." [Genesis 3:3]


"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" [Genesis 3:4]


"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." [Genesis 3:5]


Someone may then ask, "What is so harmful about all of that?" Let us see:


In Genesis 3:1,4,5 we have the root of every false teaching and doctrine being promoted today:

[1] "Yea, hath God said..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which works in [so-called] "higher criticism", in "sophistry" against the plain WORD of GOD, and set up to cause doubt and unbelief [unfaith] in it, such as the theologies/philosophies of "evolution", "sorceries and philosophies of men", "that GOD is the one who lies, while the serpent tells the truth", "worship of nature/animals", "worship of beast/man/groves", "humanism", "that no one has to keep the LAW of GOD [HIS TEN COMMANDMENTS], that we do not have to really do as GOD asks/commands", etc.

[2] "Ye shall not surely die..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which teaches that those who die, do not really die, but that they somehow, in some way exist eternally and consciously in death. Reincarnation, Multiple Lives, Evolution of consciousness [achieving a 'higher state'], "eternal tormented sufferers - whether physically, mentally, spiritually, or other", "Limbo", "Purgatory", "an unbeatific place", "'ghosts of men' to haunt", "prayers for the 'dead'", "conjuring", "attempted communication with the 'dead'", "necromancy", "gaia hypothesis [soul recycling]", "men becoming gods", "spiritualism", "immortal soul theology", etc.

[3] "...God doth know..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which teaches that "GOD is withholding/hiding something good from us - TRUTH, etc. at our expense", "that GOD is unjust/unfair/covetous/unfaithful", "that GOD is a cruel hoarding tyrant", etc.


[4] "...your eyes shall be opened..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as "mysticism", "various eastern religions/philosophies", "gurdjieffian, the fourth way", "jungian psychology", "transcendentalism", "krishnamurti", "trying to achieve godhood through self-awareness or the omega point [P. Teilhard de Chardin]", "awakening", "meditation upon centering", "centering prayer", "enlightenment", "that mankind knows as much about the future as GOD does [Open Theism]", etc.

[5] "...ye shall be as gods..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as the "new age movement", "being equal to GOD" [bringing GOD downward or man upward, elevating to equality with Deity], "seeking to become GOD; the very thing satan himself desires", "that you are your own master", "works salvation theology [you save yourself, by your own right hand]", "being holy apart from GOD [just as satan intimated in Heaven, self-righteousness]", "do what thou wilt [A. Crowley]", etc.

[6] "...knowing good and evil..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as "Paganism" "Kabbalism", "dabbling in dual sided theologies [that GOD is comprised of good/evil, light/darkness, yin/yang]", "Gnosticism [that you can somehow "know" [their def.] something]", "that to fall/sin was to be uplifted/enlightened [Joseph Smith; Mormonism]" etc.

[JESUS says of Satan]: "...He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth [see article TRUTH], because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." [John 8:44;p]


["...for sin is the transgression of the law."; 1 John 3:4;p]


["...for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin."; Romans 14:23;p]


["...all unrighteousness is sin..."; 1 John 5:17;p]


["...to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin."; James 4:17;p]

3 Angels Messages said:

I have, but it was refused. I can do nothing more than present what the scriptures say.

Let us take a look at what lies the serpent [satan, devil, dragon] teaches for a moment:

"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" [Genesis 3:1]


"And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:" [Genesis 3:2]


"But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." [Genesis 3:3]


"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" [Genesis 3:4]


"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." [Genesis 3:5]


Someone may then ask, "What is so harmful about all of that?" Let us see:


In Genesis 3:1,4,5 we have the root of every false teaching and doctrine being promoted today:

[1] "Yea, hath God said..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which works in [so-called] "higher criticism", in "sophistry" against the plain WORD of GOD, and set up to cause doubt and unbelief [unfaith] in it, such as the theologies/philosophies of "evolution", "sorceries and philosophies of men", "that GOD is the one who lies, while the serpent tells the truth", "worship of nature/animals", "worship of beast/man/groves", "humanism", "that no one has to keep the LAW of GOD [HIS TEN COMMANDMENTS], that we do not have to really do as GOD asks/commands", etc.

[2] "Ye shall not surely die..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which teaches that those who die, do not really die, but that they somehow, in some way exist eternally and consciously in death. Reincarnation, Multiple Lives, Evolution of consciousness [achieving a 'higher state'], "eternal tormented sufferers - whether physically, mentally, spiritually, or other", "Limbo", "Purgatory", "an unbeatific place", "'ghosts of men' to haunt", "prayers for the 'dead'", "conjuring", "attempted communication with the 'dead'", "necromancy", "gaia hypothesis [soul recycling]", "men becoming gods", "spiritualism", "immortal soul theology", etc.

[3] "...God doth know..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which teaches that "GOD is withholding/hiding something good from us - TRUTH, etc. at our expense", "that GOD is unjust/unfair/covetous/unfaithful", "that GOD is a cruel hoarding tyrant", etc.


[4] "...your eyes shall be opened..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as "mysticism", "various eastern religions/philosophies", "gurdjieffian, the fourth way", "jungian psychology", "transcendentalism", "krishnamurti", "trying to achieve godhood through self-awareness or the omega point [P. Teilhard de Chardin]", "awakening", "meditation upon centering", "centering prayer", "enlightenment", "that mankind knows as much about the future as GOD does [Open Theism]", etc.

[5] "...ye shall be as gods..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as the "new age movement", "being equal to GOD" [bringing GOD downward or man upward, elevating to equality with Deity], "seeking to become GOD; the very thing satan himself desires", "that you are your own master", "works salvation theology [you save yourself, by your own right hand]", "being holy apart from GOD [just as satan intimated in Heaven, self-righteousness]", "do what thou wilt [A. Crowley]", etc.

[6] "...knowing good and evil..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as "Paganism" "Kabbalism", "dabbling in dual sided theologies [that GOD is comprised of good/evil, light/darkness, yin/yang]", "Gnosticism [that you can somehow "know" [their def.] something]", "that to fall/sin was to be uplifted/enlightened [Joseph Smith; Mormonism]" etc.

[JESUS says of Satan]: "...He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth [see article TRUTH], because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." [John 8:44;p]


["...for sin is the transgression of the law."; 1 John 3:4;p]


["...for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin."; Romans 14:23;p]


["...all unrighteousness is sin..."; 1 John 5:17;p]


["...to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin."; James 4:17;p]

Click to expand...

You have by dumping SDA doctrine, not Biblical doctrine.

3 Angels Messages said:

I have, but it was refused. I can do nothing more than present what the scriptures say.

Let us take a look at what lies the serpent [satan, devil, dragon] teaches for a moment:

"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" [Genesis 3:1]


"And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:" [Genesis 3:2]


"But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." [Genesis 3:3]


"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" [Genesis 3:4]


"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." [Genesis 3:5]


Someone may then ask, "What is so harmful about all of that?" Let us see:


In Genesis 3:1,4,5 we have the root of every false teaching and doctrine being promoted today:

[1] "Yea, hath God said..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which works in [so-called] "higher criticism", in "sophistry" against the plain WORD of GOD, and set up to cause doubt and unbelief [unfaith] in it, such as the theologies/philosophies of "evolution", "sorceries and philosophies of men", "that GOD is the one who lies, while the serpent tells the truth", "worship of nature/animals", "worship of beast/man/groves", "humanism", "that no one has to keep the LAW of GOD [HIS TEN COMMANDMENTS], that we do not have to really do as GOD asks/commands", etc.

[2] "Ye shall not surely die..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which teaches that those who die, do not really die, but that they somehow, in some way exist eternally and consciously in death. Reincarnation, Multiple Lives, Evolution of consciousness [achieving a 'higher state'], "eternal tormented sufferers - whether physically, mentally, spiritually, or other", "Limbo", "Purgatory", "an unbeatific place", "'ghosts of men' to haunt", "prayers for the 'dead'", "conjuring", "attempted communication with the 'dead'", "necromancy", "gaia hypothesis [soul recycling]", "men becoming gods", "spiritualism", "immortal soul theology", etc.

[3] "...God doth know..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine which teaches that "GOD is withholding/hiding something good from us - TRUTH, etc. at our expense", "that GOD is unjust/unfair/covetous/unfaithful", "that GOD is a cruel hoarding tyrant", etc.


[4] "...your eyes shall be opened..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as "mysticism", "various eastern religions/philosophies", "gurdjieffian, the fourth way", "jungian psychology", "transcendentalism", "krishnamurti", "trying to achieve godhood through self-awareness or the omega point [P. Teilhard de Chardin]", "awakening", "meditation upon centering", "centering prayer", "enlightenment", "that mankind knows as much about the future as GOD does [Open Theism]", etc.

[5] "...ye shall be as gods..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as the "new age movement", "being equal to GOD" [bringing GOD downward or man upward, elevating to equality with Deity], "seeking to become GOD; the very thing satan himself desires", "that you are your own master", "works salvation theology [you save yourself, by your own right hand]", "being holy apart from GOD [just as satan intimated in Heaven, self-righteousness]", "do what thou wilt [A. Crowley]", etc.

[6] "...knowing good and evil..."; and out of this arises every worker of iniquity and false doctrine such as "Paganism" "Kabbalism", "dabbling in dual sided theologies [that GOD is comprised of good/evil, light/darkness, yin/yang]", "Gnosticism [that you can somehow "know" [their def.] something]", "that to fall/sin was to be uplifted/enlightened [Joseph Smith; Mormonism]" etc.

[JESUS says of Satan]: "...He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth [see article TRUTH], because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." [John 8:44;p]


["...for sin is the transgression of the law."; 1 John 3:4;p]


["...for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin."; Romans 14:23;p]


["...all unrighteousness is sin..."; 1 John 5:17;p]


["...to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin."; James 4:17;p]

Click to expand...

Tell us plainly, are you promoting SDA doctrine?

dollarsbill said:

You have by dumping SDA doctrine, not Biblical doctrine.

Click to expand...

I was not always Seventh Day Adventist. I go by the Word of God, as may be seen from the studies put together and so posted. please read them.

You also might be interested in Pastor vs Pastor:

Doctrines That Divide: The Afterlife (Part 5 of Series)- (Doug Batchelor) AmazingFacts © - YouTube

If no, then these will answer most of the textual questions:

The Truth About Death

Heaven Hell | Heaven or Hell | Heaven to Hell'

Or see Bible Doctrines section.

dollarsbill said:

Tell us plainly, are you promoting SDA doctrine?

Click to expand...

Who is "us"?

3 Angels Messages said:

I was not always Seventh Day Adventist. I go by the Word of God, as may be seen from the studies put together and so posted. please read them.

You also might be interested in Pastor vs Pastor:

Doctrines That Divide: The Afterlife (Part 5 of Series)- (Doug Batchelor) AmazingFacts © - YouTube

If no, then these will answer most of the textual questions:

The Truth About Death

Heaven Hell | Heaven or Hell | Heaven to Hell'

Or see Bible Doctrines section.

Click to expand...

Why can't you answer for yourself???

dollarsbill said:

Why can't you answer for yourself???

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I go by a "thus saith the Lord" and "it is written". I have answered, repeatedly and thoroughly from my own personal studies. There is quite a bit more, and even a great many more resources.

“Sin, Gehenna, and death do not exist at all with God, for they are effects, not substances. Sin is the fruit of free will. There was a time when sin did not exist, and there will be a time when it will not exist. …. I also maintain that those who are punished in Gehenna are scrounged by the scourge of love. … For the sorrow caused in the heart by sin against love is more poignant than any torment. It would be improper for a man to think that sinners in Gehenna are deprived of the love of God. … Thus I say that this is the torment of Gehenna: bitter regret.” --St. Isaac the Syrian

3 Angels Messages said:

I go by a "thus saith the Lord" and "it is written". I have answered, repeatedly and thoroughly from my own personal studies. There is quite a bit more, and even a great many more resources.

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Posting SDA links are not "thus saith the Lord".

Thus saith Jesus

Matthew 5:22 (NASB)
22 "; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Incariol said:

“Sin, Gehenna, and death do not exist at all with God, for they are effects, not substances.

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That sounds like something Satan would say. No sin, no need for salvation.