a question about the kind of fire that is in hell

dollarsbill said:

It is consistent with the eternal, unquenchable and everlasting fire in the NT. I.E. never ending. As in 'eternal life'.

Click to expand...

Eternal Life is a "gift" to the saved, not the wicked...

Unquenchable is a word from "quench" [a verb, meaning to extinguish, to put out], it means none will be able to put the fire out that destroys them, and they will not be able to deliver themselves from the flames. once the fire does its job, and all is ashes, the fire has nothing more to devour or burn- it goes out by itself. Other texts we can look at individually.

3 Angels Messages said:

Eternal Life is a "gift" to the saved, not the wicked...

Unquenchable is a word from "quench" [a verb, meaning to extinguish, to put out], it means none will be able to put the fire out that destroys them, and they will not be able to deliver themselves from the flames. once the fire does its job, and all is ashes, the fire has nothing more to devour or burn- it goes out by itself. Other texts we can look at individually.

Click to expand...

The eternal fire is, well, "forever".

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

dollarsbill said:

The eternal fire is, well, "forever".

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Click to expand...

Again, contextual...

...also it helps to understand the Greek terms used:

...The fire will last for an unknown amount of time, as each individual will be punished according as their works shall be, yet even the Devil will be ashes:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10).

[In the English, the passage reads sort of bad and seems to make a case for "eternal torments in the fire", but in the Greek it is much easier to understand, for it is stating that the Devil shall burn consecutively (day/night), without ceasing, until he is gone -"forever and ever" being the words "αιωναςG165 N-APM τωνG3588 T-GPM αιωνωνG165 N-GPM" (Esword app.) or "aiwnas twn aiwnwn" (w - omega) which actually means "time unto time or age unto age or period unto period" which actually translates into a more structured english of "throughout"; or in context no definitive timeframe is actually given, but rather a mere general instance of unknown exact duration, but only that it continues to be in that state until over [in this case "ashes"], and as the Bible attests to, the Devil will be brought to ashes and to naught.]

Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. Ezekiel 28:18

Where is the devil in Revelation 20? Where is He [and all of the wicked] standing?

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Revelation 20:11

3 Angels Messages said:

..The fire will last for an unknown amount of time, as each individual will be punished according as their works shall be, yet even the Devil will be ashes:

Click to expand...

Are you saying that 'eternal life' will only last for "an unknown amount of time"? Same Greek word.

dollarsbill said:

Are you saying that 'eternal life' will only last for "an unknown amount of time"? Same Greek word.

Click to expand...

No. I stated that it is contextual.

Therefore since the wicked do not receive the "gift" of eternal life, they will not live immortally.

The saved will receive the "gift" of eternal life and shall live eternally.

There is no such thing as an immortal wicked, in fact God removed Adam and Eve from the Tree of Life, He also cast satan from Heaven.

3 Angels Messages said:

No. I stated that it is contextual.

Therefore since the wicked do not receive the "gift" of eternal life, they will not live immortally.

The saved will receive the "gift" of eternal life and shall live eternally.

There is no such thing as an immortal wicked, in fact God removed Adam and Eve from the Tree of Life, He also cast satan from Heaven.

Click to expand...

Sorry but God disagrees with you.

Revelation 20:10 (NASB)
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

dollarsbill said:

Sorry but God disagrees with you.

Revelation 20:10 ...

Click to expand...

We have already been over this text. Please reconsider that the scripture cannot contradict itself [John 10:35]:

The Bible teaches that Sinners will NOT be immortalized to suffer in unending torments and agony in “hellfire” (which is to burn on the earth), but they shall perish, be devoured and die in it and be gone forever, for sin when it is finished brings forth death and not life in any way shape or form, spiritually, physically or other:

All darkness [shall be] hid in his secret places: a fire not blown shall consume him; it shall go ill with him that is left in his tabernacle. (Job 20:26)


This [is] the portion of a wicked man from God, and the heritage appointed unto him by God. (Job 20:29)


For what portion of God [is there] from above? and [what] inheritance of the Almighty from on high? (Job 31:2)


[Is] not destruction to the wicked? and a strange [punishment] to the workers of iniquity? (Job 31:3)


The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God. (Psalms 9:17)


Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins. (Psalms 7:9)


Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: [this shall be] the portion of their cup. (Psalms 11:6)


Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them. (Psalms 21:9)


For yet a little while, and the wicked [shall] not [be]: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it [shall] not [be]. (Psalms 37:10)


But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD [shall be] as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. (Psalms 37:20)


For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. (Psalms 37:28)


But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off. (Psalms 37:38)


As smoke is driven away, [so] drive [them] away: as wax melteth before the fire, [so] let the wicked perish at the presence of God. (Psalms 68:2)


Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. (Psalms 69:28)


For in the hand of the LORD [there is] a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring [them] out, [and] drink [them]. (Psalms 75:8)


All the horns of the wicked also will I cut off; [but] the horns of the righteous shall be exalted. (Psalms 75:10)


When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; [it is] that they shall be destroyed for ever: (Psalms 92:7)


For, lo, thine enemies, O LORD, for, lo, thine enemies shall perish; all the workers of iniquity shall be scattered. (Psalms 92:9)


Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD. (Psalms 104:35)


And a fire was kindled in their company; the flame burned up the wicked. (Psalms 106:18)


The wicked shall see [it], and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish. (Psalms 112:10)


The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy. (Psalms 145:20)


But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. (Proverbs 2:22)


As the whirlwind passeth, so [is] the wicked no [more]: but the righteous [is] an everlasting foundation. (Proverbs 10:25)


The hope of the righteous [shall be] gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish. (Proverbs 10:28)


The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth. (Proverbs 10:30)


The wicked are overthrown, and [are] not: but the house of the righteous shall stand. (Proverbs 12:7)


The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out. (Proverbs 13:9)


The house of the wicked shall be overthrown: but the tabernacle of the upright shall flourish. (Proverbs 14:11)


For there shall be no reward to the evil [man]; the candle of the wicked shall be put out. (Proverbs 24:20)


Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Ezekiel 18:4)


The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Ezekiel 18:20)


Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. (Isaiah 13:9)


They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 66:17)


And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isaiah 66:24)


For while [they be] folden together [as] thorns, and while they are drunken [as] drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry. (Nahum 1:10)


For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, [so] shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been. (Obadiah 1:16)


I will utterly consume all [things] from off the land, saith the LORD. (Zephaniah 1:2)


I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumblingblocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD. (Zephaniah 1:3)


Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:15)


And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)


For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)


For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)


But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned. (Hebrews 6:8)


But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10)


And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. (Revelation 20:9).


The words used so far in describing the end of the wicked are Destroy, Blotted Out, Perished, Consumed Utterly, Cut Off, Dissolved, Melted, Devoured, Dead, Death, Hath Not Been, Not [any/no more], Burned Up, etc. [all taken from Strong's]:


[Hebrew: machah מחה; meaning: to wipe out; blot out, obliterate; exterminated]
[Hebrew: macah מסה; meaning: melt away, dissolve, liquefy, consumed]
[Hebrew: muwg מוג; meaning: to melt, dissolve, faint, dissipate, flow away]
[Hebrew: muwth מות; meaning: dead, death, kill, slain]
[Hebrew: da`ak דעך; meaning: extinguished, to go out, put out, dry up, made extinct, quenched]
[Hebrew: caphah ספה; meaning: to be swept away, destroyed, consumed]
[Hebrew: shachath שחת; meaning: destroyed, corrupted, ruined, decayed]
[Hebrew: parar פרר; meaning: break apart, frustrate, split, splinter to pieces, shatter, cracked up]
[Hebrew: 'abad אבד; meaning: perished, vanished, destroyed, die, exterminated, blot out, put to death]
[Hebrew: 'obed אבד; meaning: destruction, perish]
[Hebrew: gava` גוע; meaning: to expire, die, death, breathe ones last, yield up the last breath]
[Hebrew: cuwph סוף; meaning: to come to an end, to make an end, consume utterly, cause to cease, perish]
[Hebrew: damah דמה; meaning: to cease, cause to cease, cut off, destroy, perish, to be undone]
[Hebrew: charam חרם; meaning: to ban, destroy utterly and completely, exterminated, forfeited, divided, prohibited]
[Hebrew: kalah כלה; meaning: consumed, determined, ended, finished, completely spent, at an end, perish, terminated, annihilation, complete destruction]
[Hebrew: karath כרת; meaning: cut off, cut asunder, eliminate, kill, cut down]
[Hebrew: kachad כחד; meaning: hide, conceal, cut down, make desolate, destroy, cut off, annihilate, efface]
[Hebrew: bala` בלע; meaning: swallowed up, eaten up, to be ended]
[Hebrew: balah בלה; meaning: to wear out, wear away, use up completely]
[Hebrew: harac הרס; meaning: to tear down, break down, overthrow, destroy utterly]
[Hebrew: show' שוא; meaning: devastated, ruined, laid to waste]
[Hebrew: tsamath צמת; meaning: put an end to, cut off, destroy, exterminate, annihilate]
[Hebrew: shamad שמד; meaning: destroyed, exterminate, annihilated, devastated]
[Hebrew: naphal נפל; meaning: cast down, fail, waste away, overturn, knock down, fall]
[Hebrew: 'akal אכל; meaning: to eat, devour, consume, to be wasted, destroyed]
[Hebrew: chacal חסל; meaning: to consume, eaten up, bring to an end]
[Hebrew: tamam תמם; meaning: to be complete, finished, at an end, consumed, exhausted]
[Hebrew: 'oklah אכלה; meaning: object of devouring, consuming in judgment]
[Hebrew: maqaq מקק; meaning: to decay, pine away, rot, fester, corrupt, dissolve]
[Hebrew: guwz גוז; meaning: to pass over, pass away (of life), cut off]
[Hebrew: yatsath יצת; meaning: to be burned up, to be made desolate, set on fire]
[Hebrew: sĕrephah שרפה; meaning: burning, burn, burnt up throughly]
[Greek: apollymi ἀπόλλυμι; meaning: to destroy, put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin, render useless, kill, perish]
[Greek: lyō λύω; meaning: loosed, undone, annul, dissolve, do away with, overthrow, break up]
[Greek: katalyō καταλύω; meaning: dissolved, disunite, overthrow, render vain, bring to naught]
[Greek: analiskō ἀναλίσκω; meaning: to expend, consume, destroy]
[Greek: phtheirō φθείρω; meaning: to corrupt, to destroy, to perish, deprave]
[Greek: diaphtheirō διαφθείρω; meaning: to corrupt, consume, destroy, kill, eat up, ruin]
[Greek: aphanizō ἀφανίζω; meaning: to snatch away, take away, to make unseen, to destroy, consume, to make vanish]
[Greek: phthora φθορά; meaning: corruption, destruction, perishing, decay]
[Greek: kataphtheirō καταφθείρω; meaning: to corrupt, deprave, to destroy, perish]
[Greek: ekkoptō ἐκκόπτω; meaning: hewn down, cut off or out]
[Greek: apokoptō ἀποκόπτω; meaning: cut off, amputate]
[Greek: nekros νεκρός; meaning: lifeless, dead, deceased, breathed ones last, inanimate, inactive]
[Greek: nekroō νεκρόω; meaning: dead, put to death, to deprive of power, destroy the strength]
[Greek: apothnēskō ἀποθνῄσκω; meaning: to die, perish, dry up, eternal death]
[Greek: empi(m)prēmi ἐμπί(&#956πρημι; meaning: burn up, destroy by fire]
[Greek: katakaiō κατακαίω; meaning: to burn up, consume by fire]

Enough of the copy and paste. Deal with the Scripture.

Luke 16:22-26 (NASB)
22 "; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 ~'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'

dollarsbill said:

Enough of the copy and paste.

Click to expand...

Then consider the nature of God and the character of Jesus Christ.

[PS. It is CnP from my own study...no excuses please, evidence is presented]

3 Angels Messages said:

Then consider the nature of God and the character of Jesus Christ.

[PS. It is CnP from my own study...no excuses please, evidence is presented]

Click to expand...

Are you referring to the God of the Bible who drown everyone on Earth but 8 making them an example?

Are you saying God is a liar????? "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Satan said to Eve, thou shalt not truly die--God says the soul that sinneth it shall die. The word says that God gives the saved eternal life--that is one of our rewards. He does not give immortality to the lost. Only God is immortal, we are given access to the tree of life--they are not. Sodom and Gomorrah are said to have been burned with an everlasting fire--they are still not burning. and yet one more time---THE SOUL THAT SINNETH, IT SHALL DIE.
Same question that was posed to Eve---who are you going to believe, God or Satan--
God=the soul that sinneth, it shall die
Satan--thou shalt not surely die

mmksparbud said:

Are you saying God is a liar????? "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Satan said to Eve, thou shalt not truly die--God says the soul that sinneth it shall die. The word says that God gives the saved eternal life--that is one of our rewards. He does not give immortality to the lost. Only God is immortal, we are given access to the tree of life--they are not. Sodom and Gomorrah are said to have been burned with an everlasting fire--they are still not burning. and yet one more time---THE SOUL THAT SINNETH, IT SHALL DIE.
Same question that was posed to Eve---who are you going to believe, God or Satan--
God=the soul that sinneth, it shall die
Satan--thou shalt not surely die

Click to expand...

Death does not mean 'cease to exist'.

dollarsbill said:

...
Luke 16:22-26 (NASB)
22 "; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 ~'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'

Click to expand...

Luke 16 'Rich man and Lazarus' is a Parable.

"Rich Man and Lazarus" of Luke 16, comes in a series of Parables after a small discourse to great multitudes really beginning in Luke 14:25

(And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, Luke 14:25)

...and also in Luke 15:1-2, to tax collectors, sinners who surrounded HIM and to Pharisees and Scribes who were complaining (Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.Luke 15:1 and And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. Luke 15:2) and as JESUS heard the Pharisees and Scribes complaining and so HE speaks unto them in parables beginning in Luke 15:3 (And he spake this parable unto them, saying, Luke 15:3)

...and continues with the Parable of the "man with the 100 Sheep who had one lost" from Luke 15:4-7,

...and then begins another Parable in Luke 15:8-10 about the "Woman who Lost a Coin" Luke 15:11 (though JESUS is still speaking in Parables, in both instances in the scriptures it does not specifically say that the words to come after verses 8 or 11 were Parable, but yet that is because the scripture had already made clear that this was what JESUS was doing from verse 3) (And he said, A certain man had two sons:Luke 15:11)

...which then begins the Parable from Luke 15:11-32 about the "Man who had Two Sons" (Prodigal Sons Parable).

JESUS then turns to HIS disciples and continues in Luke 16:1, with yet another parable, the parable of the "GOD and Mammon" (And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.Luke 16:1)

...and the word "also" joins the previous parables with this parable along with what further continues ("they heard all these things")

...now after that Mammon Parable, the Pharisees, being lovers of Money, broke into the series of Parables and derided JESUS in Luke 16:14 (And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.Luke 16:14),

...but JESUS immediately counters their derision with what the LAW says on the matter about Money and Divorce in Luke 16:15-18 and then drives home the point of their hypocrisy and double standard as well as their neglect of duty to being the Light to the Gentiles with the Parable of Luke 16:19-31 in the Parable of the "Rich Man And Lazarus" (And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.Luke 16:15)

Now that it is established that the "Rich Man and Lazarus" is indeed a Parable, let us look a little further at some scriptures to be even more and absolutely sure:

The Parable of the “Rich Man and Lazarus” in the Gospel of Luke is often misused to try and prove an eternal torment in “hellfire”, but JESUS spoke of these things to the Pharisees and when HE did so, HE always used a parable:

I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old: (Psalm 78:2)

And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables: (Mark 4:11)

And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. (Luke 8:10)

And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. (Luke 16:14)

And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. (Luke 16:15).

...This Parable does not start with the words “the Kingdom of Heaven is like...” as it is about the failure of the Nation of Israel to be the Light of the world. The parable is not giving us a specific picture of an ethereal place a person goes immediately after death (for first of all the Judgment must come first, GOD said that the Wheat and Tares grow together unto the end, then is the Harvest, and then are the Wheat gathered into the Barn and then only are the Tares thrown into the fire, which consumes them into smoke and ashes to be no more, which fire burns upon the whole surface of the earth, their body (made of dust) and whole being (breath plus dust) being cast into the fire altogether, at the same time, to be destroyed, perished, not be any more):

...The Parable Lesson: The certain “rich man” (Pharisaical Israel), a “child of Abraham”, who has the TRUTH that are not sharing their “food” (the WORD of GOD and the LIGHT-of which Israel was supposed to be to the World; Bread, see Deuteronomy 8:3; Matthew 4:4; Luke 4:4) with the “poor” Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:3) of which even the "dogs" (gentiles) must lick the wounds of And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (Matthew 15:27)And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. (Mark 7:28), they may find that in the Judgment the “poor” are saved and the “rich” are lost.

The responsibility is to share the Gospel, Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. (Matthew 10:8).

JESUS was telling them (Pharisees and those listening) that if they did not share the Gospel with the "Poor", that they might find that many come from the East and the West and sit down in the Kingdom with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (at the Resurrection at the end of the world), and that they themselves would be cast out while (To whom much is given, much is required) the Gentiles be let in. This was a huge reversal to the reality that the Pharisaical Jews had in mind about who was to be in the Kingdom and how it was to come. They had come to believe that there was a salvation by nationality, by bloodline. CHRIST told them it was not so by the use of the parable. They would have been taken aback and aghast that such a statement should be made, that they "the righteous ones" would be turned away, while the "unclean" would be allowed to see and live in the Glorious Kingdom with GOD and Abraham.

...to be continued... [PS. This is also from my own study...]

3 Angels Messages said:

Luke 16 'Rich man and Lazarus' is a Parable.

Click to expand...

Luke 16 is quite detailed. Why would Jesus make up a horror story???

dollarsbill said:

Luke 16 is quite detailed. Why would Jesus make up a horror story???

Click to expand...

Please see where that question is thoroughly answered:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7645147-4/#post60154452

http://www.christianforums.com/t7645147-4/#post60154454

3 Angels Messages said:

Please see where that question is thoroughly answered:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7645147-4/#post60154452

http://www.christianforums.com/t7645147-4/#post60154454

Click to expand...

Are you saying YOU can't answer it???

dollarsbill said:

Are you saying YOU can't answer it???

Click to expand...

I am saying I already have.

3 Angels Messages said:

I am saying I already have.

Click to expand...

By referring to someone else?

dollarsbill said:

By referring to someone else?

Click to expand...

Please take the time to actually follow the links, to the two posts I gave [and wrote]; Thank you.