Christianity and Beer

Beer isn't sinful. Not unless you're drinking it with a recovering alcoholic.

blong4133 said:

May seem like a stupid question, but I'm just curious how some of you view drinking beer and being a Christian.

I'm 24 year old, and occasionally I enjoy have a beer or two. I don't let it get out of hand, but if my friends and I go out, I will usually have one or two. And sometimes I have one before bed to unwind if I'm gonig through a stressful time (although that is very very rare, but I had a couple last night because I'm going through a lot of stress at the moment with school and exams and whatnot).

My dad is a devout member and preacher in the Church of Christ. And the Church of Christ is a very, very traditional church. No instruments in the church, no smoking, drinking or anything like that. I now go to a non-denominational church because I have a hard time leaving church feeling scared (like I did when I went to the church of christ...a lot of lessons about "if you do this, you're going to hell" type stuff...not saying it's like that everywhere, but my Dad gives those types of sermons) but I opted to go to a non-denominational church where I walk out feeling inspired, uplifted and just feel great in general.

I view myself as a good Christian, but I still, to this day, have not gotten a real answer whether Beer is a bad thing or not. I've always assumed that it's OK if I have one or two here and there.

So what do you all think?

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I personally do not like beer, but I don't think it's wrong for one to enjoy an occasional glass, given that they are practicing temperance(moderation). I have wine occasionally, but it's usually at a banquet or something of that nature along w/ grapes. A margarita is a once every full moon thing and I follow that w/ water.

Here is an article from Biblical Archaeology Review that says the Ancient Israelites drank beer:
Did the Ancient Israelites Drink Beer? | Biblical Archaeology Review | Bible History Articles

Timothew said:

Here is an article from Biblical Archaeology Review that says the Ancient Israelites drank beer:
Did the Ancient Israelites Drink Beer? | Biblical Archaeology Review | Bible History Articles

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many people fault the fall of Israel to alcohol.

TheDag said:

Well ok then what is the point you are trying to make? You originally responded to a person saying wine was alcoholic. you claim Jesus would not have made the wine if people were going to get drunk. it is really hard to understand what you mean.

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Why would Jesus make wine that people would get drunk off of (full proof)?

He most likely made wine they were used to ( mixed with water ).

"the best" mean's it was more finely strained than the other

gradyll said:

Why would Jesus make wine that people would get drunk off of (full proof)?

He most likely made wine they were used to ( mixed with water )

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They didn't buy wine mixed with water; they bought full-strength wine, and mixed it with water just before drinking. The "master of the banquet" was probably in charge of the mixing.

The wine in the miracle would have been ordinary full-strength wine, which they were used to buying.

gradyll said:

many people fault the fall of Israel to alcohol.

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Really? Which people?

Threads like this are sad. People trump up their feelings or fanciful notions with facts. The facts are that Jesus drank on at least one occasion. He drank at the last supper also. he drank with prostitutes and tax collectors, and if you've ever partied with these people (I have) they drink the real stuff, and it gets you drunk.

they aren't drinking grape juice, its fermented. They probably drank in the church also as Paul says ''eat and drink at home''. The NKJV translates a suggestion to Timothy to have a little wine, although some disagree that it was actually wine.

Plus, doesn't it say that God will bless your wine vats to overflowing? Wine is a blessing, and beer is permitted

you people need to stop trying to ''picture'' Jesus (many posts in this thread are imaginations of Jesus) and base your knowledge of Jesus straight on the facts. He did very controversial things, all the time, and I wouldn't even be surprised if he got drunk at some point, it is possible that his BAC was well over the legal driving limit. There is zero credibility to anyone to tries to factually claim otherwise.

he did and said many things which were not recorded. Whether God considers his own son to be a drunk, well isn't it possible Jesus had a bit of a phase when growing up?

in addition, the bible seems to be setting Jesus up as a stark counterpoint to John the baptist. He was the opposite, and John was expressly warned against fermented drink.

Radagast said:

The wine in the miracle would have been ordinary full-strength wine, which they were used to buying.

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look at it this way, if I make you fresh salad dressing.....with oil and vinegar....do I give you the raw ingredients and say "bottoms up"...or do I mix it for you the way you are used to? This is why Jesus created premixed wine, the way they were used to and not the raw unmixed wines.

Radagast said:

Really? Which people?

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Can't remember but I personally think it was idolatry that was Israels downfall.

but the old testament does say this about giving alcohol to your neighbor...so that He gets drunk

Habakkuk 2:15-Woe unto him that giveth his neighbor drink, that puttest thy battle to him, and maketh him drunken...”?

MountainofGod1 said:

Threads like this are sad. People trump up their feelings or fanciful notions with facts. The facts are that Jesus drank on at least one occasion. He drank at the last supper also. he drank with prostitutes and tax collectors, and if you've ever partied with these people (I have) they drink the real stuff, and it gets you drunk.

they aren't drinking grape juice, its fermented. They probably drank in the church also as Paul says ''eat and drink at home''. The NKJV translates a suggestion to Timothy to have a little wine, although some disagree that it was actually wine.

Plus, doesn't it say that God will bless your wine vats to overflowing? Wine is a blessing, and beer is permitted

you people need to stop trying to ''picture'' Jesus (many posts in this thread are imaginations of Jesus) and base your knowledge of Jesus straight on the facts. He did very controversial things, all the time, and I wouldn't even be surprised if he got drunk at some point, it is possible that his BAC was well over the legal driving limit. There is zero credibility to anyone to tries to factually claim otherwise.

he did and said many things which were not recorded. Whether God considers his own son to be a drunk, well isn't it possible Jesus had a bit of a phase when growing up?

in addition, the bible seems to be setting Jesus up as a stark counterpoint to John the baptist. He was the opposite, and John was expressly warned against fermented drink.

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most likely it was 3-5% alcohol only, they didn't have the technology to add sugar and yeast to boost alcoholic properties...

"To make strong alcoholic wine of today (10%-15%), you must add a lot of sugar and yeast to boost the alcoholic content to the wine levels of today. You also need constant temperatures between 50 and 75 degrees to successfully ferment the wine.

Chemical science forbids vinous fermentation when heat exceeds 75 degrees because the juice will assume acetous vinegar status. Since the Middle East is well above 75 degrees even at night, something had to be done to preserve the juice or it would all turn to vinegar.

The alcoholic content of “wine” was much weaker during biblical times and was often watered down even more for consumption for adults and children. Also, boiling the “juice” down killed the yeast thus eliminating any fermentation. The juice that was boiled down produced a tasty syrup for preservation and could be reconstituted later for drinking purposes.

Contrary to belief, fermented wine does not happen all by itself and must be carefully engineered to finish the fermentation process. The vast majority of the juice in Jesus' time was consumed as a tasty drink not unlike the grape beverages of today. Additionally, fermented wine was a rarity since the resources needed for fermentation were unavailable to most grape producers."

rest of article I disagree with but it's here
Providing and drinking 'wine': did Jesus break God's law? - San Jose Christian Perspectives | Examiner.com

I just despise theology with a passion. I like facts. Facts, numbers, and hermeneutics, this is what the bible is fabricated on. Not imagination and loosely reasoned formulas for right and wrong.

bottom line to me is that, any amount of fermented consumption means you've ingested alcohol and under right circumstances could get drunk.

My mission is to destroy the perceptions that Christians can't drink or have fun. It is also to challenge the comfort zones so many Christians live in where they aren't allowed to get drunk, they sign rules or believe in certain rules, and this is false religion and gives Christianity a very bad name.

Also people who are not basing their beliefs on facts as strongly as possible are going to have weaker faith, because one day they will realize it isn't a sin to drink, and that their religion had nothing to do with the bible. This is sad.

MountainofGod1 said:

I just despise theology with a passion. I like facts. Facts, numbers, and hermeneutics, this is what the bible is fabricated on. Not imagination and loosely reasoned formulas for right and wrong.

bottom line to me is that, any amount of fermented consumption means you've ingested alcohol and under right circumstances could get drunk.

My mission is to destroy the perceptions that Christians can't drink or have fun. It is also to challenge the comfort zones so many Christians live in where they aren't allowed to get drunk, they sign rules or believe in certain rules, and this is false religion and gives Christianity a very bad name.

Also people who are not basing their beliefs on facts as strongly as possible are going to have weaker faith, because one day they will realize it isn't a sin to drink, and that their religion had nothing to do with the bible. This is sad.

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Christians can have fun, for sure. But not to the point of transgressing the Law of God.

1) Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble.

2) Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality

3) Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.

4) Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.

5) Deuteronomy 21:20 - A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.

6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.

7) Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.

8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.

9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.

10) 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree.

11) 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin.

12) 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed.

13) 1 Kings 16:8-10 - The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated

14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.

15) Esther 1:5-12 - The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.

16) Psalm 75:8 - The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.

17) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.

18) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.

19) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.

20) Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty.

21) Proverbs 23:29-30 - Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.

22) Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.

23) Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.

24) Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.

25) Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable

26) Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.

27) Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.

28) Proverbs 31:6-7 - Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.

29) Ecclesiastes 2:3 - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)

30) Ecclesiastes 10:17 - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.

31) Isaiah 5:11-12 - Woe to those who get up early to drink and stay up late at night to get drunk.

32) Isaiah 5:22 - Woe to "champion" drinkers and "experts" at mixing drinks.

33) Isaiah 19:14 - Drunken men stagger in their vomit.

34) Isaiah 22:12-13 - The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.

35) Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.

36) Isaiah 28:1 - God pronounces woe on the drunkards of Ephraim.

37) Isaiah 28:3 - Proud drunkards shall be trodden down.

38) Isaiah 28:7 - Priests and prophets stagger and reel from beer and wine, err in vision, and stumble in judgment.

39) Isaiah 28:8 - Drinkers’ tables are covered with vomit and filth.

40) Isaiah 56:9-12 - Drinkers seek their own gain and expect tomorrow to be just like today.

41) Jeremiah 35:2-14 - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.

42) Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.

43) Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.

44) Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.

45) Daniel 5:2-3 - The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple.

46) Daniel 5:4 - Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.

47) Daniel 5:23 - God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.

48) Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.

49) Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.

50) Joel 1:5 - Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment.

51) Joel 3:3 - The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine.

52) Amos 2:8 - Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.

53) Amos 2:12 - Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine.

54) Micah 2:11 - Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.

55) Nahum 1:10 - The drunkards of Nineveh will be destroyed by God.

56) Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.

57) Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.

58) Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame.

59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.

60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.

61) Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness.

62) Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.

63) Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.

64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.

65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.

66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God

67) Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.

68) Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.

69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.

70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.

71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.

72) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.

73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.

74) Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.

75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.

we don't live according to the law, but even the most simplest of men knows when a man is a drunkard.

It's good not to drink, but don't think to yourself that Jesus never did.

MountainofGod1 said:

we don't live according to the law, but even the most simplest of men knows when a man is a drunkard.

It's good not to drink, but don't think to yourself that Jesus never did.

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“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth it not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. “
1 John 2:3-5

and yes I agree that it's good not to drink, but Jesus drank what was available at the time, and even created wine. So it's okay in moderation.

also this is a clip from another thread on the law.....(because you mentioned the law)

You seem to forget that the same law you say we are free from is the same law that tells us what sin is?

Do you sin?

Then if yes,

you sin by breaking what?

The law! So it still applies even though it can't save.

When the Bible says we are free from the law, we are not completely removed from it, we are simply not saved by it.

The law tells us even now, in grace, what sin is:

1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
for sin is the transgression of the law."

Romans 3:20 "... for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Romans 7:7 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. "

Romans 8:3-4 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Hebrews 8:10 " For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

Galatians 3:24 " Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith"
__________________

To drink or not to drink is never really a baby's first words, as far as I know.

JoeyArnold said:

To drink or not to drink is never really a baby's first words, as far as I know.

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agreed, no one ever says....."I wanna be a drunkard when I grow up"

moderation is okay however)

early church told people not to "despise" wine because it was a creation, kinda odd I saY!

"If any bishop, presbyter, or deacon (or indeed any of the priestly category) abstains from marriage, meat, and wine- not for his own discipline - but because he abominates these things, he forgets that "all things were very good"...Therefore let him reform , or else let him be deprived and be cast out of the church. That same is true for any of the laity. "

Apostolic Constitutions (compiled c.390, E), 7.503

funny thing is I only remember verses saying not to reject marriage and meats, I dont' remember any verses on wine. But I do remember many verses rejecting wine.

Christianity and beer ... I am in favor of both.
In another life I could have been a medieval monk.
Too bad it's the 21'st century!
Hahahaha !!!

Seriously ... it's about keeping things in moderation.
Don't let alcohol become a problem. Don't overindulge.

We should take ourselves less seriously,
and take God more seriously.
Who said that, anyway ???

Gideon123

Yep moderation agreed. Only people who should not drink or those that have problems with controlling it. If you look up Drunkard--it is those who are habitually drunk.