Jeanine Sautron.

EastCoastRemnant said:

The leadership of the church has been in league with the Papacy officially since 1968 when she was accepted into the WCC. Just as their was gross apostacy in the days of Israels time with the leadership, we should not be surprised at it now.... however, like Stryder said, we are not to leave just as the Israelites were not to leave. There is no other option....

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dont worry ECR, the question whether to leave or not to leave is not yours to decide... maybe God wants you to remain in that church, or at least stay for now, maybe He wants you to leave and if so He will show it to you, no arguments from other people will change your opinion, only the Lord Himself can do that...

Orin Incandenza said:

Stryder take a look at this and see what is going on in the SDA leadership and the strange symbols that is invading the temples.
jesusisfreedom.net/seventh-day-adventists-symbols.html]Seventh Day Adventist's Symbols - Digging for Truth[/url]

I´m trying to figure that out, no encouraging anyone to leave the SDA, but I wanna know in the mist of confusion the truth. Lucifer is very cleaver and persuasive, and all in this world belongs to him, we need to be pay attention to leadership on the SDA. They getting close to the Vatican it seems. And this can be good right?

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amazing website

The SDA Mystery Babylon Connection - Digging for Truth

its scary what they present there...

iMHO every devote SDA should check back with that stuff....

JohnMarsten said:

its not that simple...

egw was wrong many a time, why not this time...?

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It is that simple. And wrong according to who? Thought you weren't talking about her any more?

Orin Incandenza said:

Stryder take a look at this and see what is going on in the SDA leadership and the strange symbols that is invading the temples.
jesusisfreedom.net/seventh-day-adventists-symbols.html]Seventh Day Adventist's Symbols - Digging for Truth[/url]

I´m trying to figure that out, no encouraging anyone to leave the SDA, but I wanna know in the mist of confusion the truth. Lucifer is very cleaver and persuasive, and all in this world belongs to him, we need to be pay attention to leadership on the SDA. They getting close to the Vatican it seems. And this can be good right?

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It is for this reason that I said not to look to the leadership as an end all in your faith. Many, including those at the top, will fall from the faith. This in no way takes away from the truth of our message. We have to be all the more on guard, and rooted in the scriptures so as to avoid being swept away. The structure of the SDA church today is not how it was, nor how it ought to be. But God will deal with His people in His own time, in His own way. Just hold fast to truth, and nothing will overtake you.

Stryder06 said:

It is that simple. And wrong according to who? Thought you weren't talking about her any more?

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Talking about her? Well, yes and no I guess...

I mean I never said that I would never talk about her again, that would be foolish in itself,

what I mean is that I would generally refrain from debates and stuff, which in effect is true... I dont want that anymore and you will have probably realized that I somehow ceased to do so...

there are always exceptions to the rules...

wrong according to whom?

Well, lets take that food for worm prophecy which I think everyone with a sane mind will agree on that it failed...

Orin Incandenza said:

Well, maybe Jenaine Sautron is the way for God show the people have to leave the SDA. Remember, Miss White was accept at that time only by 20 % of the people. Miss Sautron only by 5%. Miss Sautron says we are at the end and we need to reform to be prepare to stand in front of God...stopping eating meet, coffe, milk because this food are contaminated...this is right according to the codex allimentarium that we have today...and worse if we see the codex monsanto, each is the regulation of all animals for humans consumption. Where's the prove that this new prophet is not a real one...and, each is the consequences in ignore this message that could be a real message of Jesus in our final days?

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personally I dont believe in any prophet after the book of revelation... the bible must be sufficient for me...

EGW is problematic... and not this janeine or something... well, I think I will definitely pass on her...

btw I think that this stop eating meat thing is part of the new age movement... think about it!

JohnMarsten said:

personally I dont believe in any prophet after the book of revelation... the bible must be sufficient for me...

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Even though the Bible said there would be prophets in the last days?

EastCoastRemnant said:

Even though the Bible said there would be prophets in the last days?

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Maybe, but then I think I wouldnt be able to name a single one of them, how can I say that somebody is a prophet?

the bible also does speak about the gift of prophecy and gives the impression that this gift of the Holy Spirit would be part of the church, I understand it as being part of each and every church group, like having a body of believers that has different gifts of the Holy Spirit ... etc. I havent seen any such church yet, and yet the bible talks about gift of the Holy Spirit...

Besides, could you give me quotes about those prophets? cause I am somehow unfamiliar with any, maybe I am getting too forgetful these days....

JohnMarsten said:

Well, lets take that food for worm prophecy which I think everyone with a sane mind will agree on that it failed...

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Not familiar with that one. Would you be so kind as to point out where I can read that? Anti-EGW sites excluded if you don't mind, they tend to ignore context at the expense of proving a point.

there you go Stryder, like so many times I highly doubt that it will have an impact on you...

many apologists come up with the excuse that this prophecy was indeed conditional, the condition was Jesus' return, which has happened yet, and so the rest of the prophecy couldnt be fulfilled either... yeah man!

Stryder06 said:

Not familiar with that one. Would you be so kind as to point out where I can read that? Anti-EGW sites excluded if you don't mind, they tend to ignore context at the expense of proving a point.

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"I was shown the company present at the Conference, Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus." Ellen G. White, 1Testimonies, p. 131-132. May 27, 1856

JohnMarsten said:

there you go Stryder, like so many times I highly doubt that it will have an impact on you...

many apologists come up with the excuse that this prophecy was indeed conditional, the condition was Jesus' return, which has happened yet, and so the rest of the prophecy couldnt be fulfilled either... yeah man!




"I was shown the company present at the Conference, Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus." Ellen G. White, 1Testimonies, p. 131-132. May 27, 1856

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I'm familiar with that quote, and I've had questions about it. But my question is why do you have a problem with the "conditional" response?

Stryder06 said:

I'm familiar with that quote, and I've had questions about it. But my question is why do you have a problem with the "conditional" response?

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because it sounds foolish to me...

first of all I dont see a condition in that prophecy....

let me bring you closer to the problem...

lets talk business here

If I tell a client the following

"You will get your goods by the end of the month."

Do you see a condition there? - I dont think so...

Imagine the client didnt get the goods by the end of the month, he is furious and asks me about it, and I tell him that it was all conditional, he would have received the goods if they had been ready...

Now you see, I have failed, I didnt keep my end of the bargain, I broke the contract, and it is only natural that he didnt receive the goods because I have failed to produce them... implying such a condition? well,!


I think I would definitely lose that client...

Now can you show me the condition within that prophecy?

JohnMarsten said:

because it sounds foolish to me...

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Fair enough. But that's to you. This is a rather objective statement wouldn't you say? So who's right if you find it foolish and someone else doesn't?

first of all I dont see a condition in that prophecy....

let me bring you closer to the problem...

lets talk business here

If I tell a client the following

"You will get your goods by the end of the month."

Do you see a condition there? - I dont think so...

Imagine the client didnt get the goods by the end of the month, he is furious and asks me about it, and I tell him that it was all conditional, he would have received the goods if they had been ready...

Now you see, I have failed, I didnt keep my end of the bargain, I broke the contract, and it is only natural that he didnt receive the goods because I have failed to produce them... implying such a condition? well,!


I think I would definitely lose that client...

Now can you show me the condition within that prophecy?

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Well, I guess the problem we have here is that I never considered this statement by the angel to be a prophecy. I take into account that said that God would have come sooner had His church moved the way they should have. Since they didn't move, He didn't come.

This may sound foolish to you, but it doesn't sound foolish to me at all.

It is a wonder that some here who come as sda sound more like the devil's advocate than anything. Should we be surprised at that?

sky

rainbowinthesky said:

It is a wonder that some here who come as sda sound more like the devil's advocate than anything. Should we be surprised at that?

sky

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you are getting more and more carried away...

Stryder06 said:

Fair enough. But that's to you. This is a rather objective statement wouldn't you say? So who's right if you find it foolish and someone else doesn't?

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maybe I am mistaken, but wouldnt the word 'subjective' be more appropriate in the given context?

btw, since I used the words 'to me', the whole thing goes without speaking, so I understand that your statement had a rethorical purpose which I actually dont understand yet... but lets say you are right...


[/quote]
Well, I guess the problem we have here is that I never considered this statement by the angel to be a prophecy. I take into account that said that God would have come sooner had His church moved the way they should have. Since they didn't move, He didn't come.

This may sound foolish to you, but it doesn't sound foolish to me at all.[/quote]

So you never considered the statement of the angel to be a prophecy?

hmmm... that puts us into an awkward position...

would that statement be a prophecy if the angel hadnt spoken? and only egw had made that claim... and used the words I was shown instead of the Angel speaking?

an angel is a messenger as many people on this forum have argued. so if a messenger delivers a message regarding the future wouldnt that qualify as a prophecy?

pardon me but I think this is the point where it gets confusing...

cause if we assume that the statement wasnt a prophecy, spoken by an angel... then what was it?

I mean what is the objective or purpose of an angel? are they doing things on their own accord? are they sent by GOd?

oh yeah... Jesus was rumored to return sooner than later... OK...

rainbowinthesky said:

It is a wonder that some here who come as sda sound more like the devil's advocate than anything. Should we be surprised at that?

sky

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Scoffers to the left of me, sceptics to the right, here I am Lord stuck in the middle with you.

EastCoastRemnant said:

Scoffers to the left of me, sceptics to the right, here I am Lord stuck in the middle with you.

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I appreciate that this is so funny to you... hope you will realize one day what it was...