Gender reassignment

Jase · Mar 20, 2012

iLogos said:
Is any one thinking this entirely through?

Seeing as many of us know more about this than you do, I'd say yes we are.

What can a male born transformed to woman offer a real man?

The same things a natural born woman can. Or are you suggesting the only thing a woman is good for is being a baby making factory?

What man would get involved with such a person in the first place unless that detail was kept secret?

An understanding, compassionate, non-bigoted one. Maybe a man who himself has struggled with gender identity and can relate.

In effect you are saying you disapprove how God has made you, He made a mistake in your case and now you want to play god and correct it.

You're under the assumption humans are always born correctly. What about intersex individuals? They have both male and female chromosomes and genitals. Was that God's plan too? What about deformities, diseases, neurological disorders, etc.? Did God carefully design a baby to have Cerebral palsy or a cleft palate? Shall we not attempt to fix them, because that is challenging God's design?

I do agree that it is more important what's in a person's heart over physical appearance, but if we agree on that, why is it necessary to change our outer appearance from how we were born. hypocritical comes to mind here!

You obviously don't understand Gender identity disorder. You do realize how mentally traumatizing this issue can be for someone right? Do you have the foggiest clue how painful it is to have the body of one gender, and the brain of another, and have no way to correct the mismatch? Transsexuals have one of the highest suicide rates in the general population because of how debilitating and depression inducing the issue is.

Jase · Mar 20, 2012

iLogos said:
Seems to be a fine line then from Gender Identity Disorder and some one simply seeking a sexual fantasy in role playing like most cross dressers.

Also I fail to see how GID can be proven other then say so.

How does one identify a male or female brain?

MRI and PET scans for starters. GID can be hard to diagnose, which is why it takes years of therapy and living as the opposite sex before doctors will do sex reassignment surgery. However, in the true GID cases, it basically saves the person's life, because the trauma of having a brain and body disconnect causes extreme depression and suicidal thoughts/actions.

Jase · Mar 20, 2012

147 said:
A few verses to meditate on:

"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb." Psalm 139:13
"I knew you before I formed you in your mothers womb." Jeremiah 1:5

I don't believe God makes mistakes in making us. Take that how you will, pray and meditate on those verses.

I'd also be willing to discuss this over PM if need be. I've been around this situation happening before actually.

What about intersex people who are both sexes? What about infants born with neurological disorders, terminal diseases, missing limbs, cleft palates, etc.?

Did God carefully knit Tay Sachs disease into a baby so they would suffer extreme pain for their entire 4-6 year existence?

I think those verses are very metaphoric, otherwise you have God intentionally designing babies to experience nothing but pain and misery before dying at a young age. Sounds awfully evil to me.

peggy sue · Mar 20, 2012

Jase said:
MRI and PET scans for starters. GID can be hard to diagnose, which is why it takes years of therapy and living as the opposite sex before doctors will do sex reassignment surgery. However, in the true GID cases, it basically saves the person's life, because the trauma of having a brain and body disconnect causes extreme depression and suicidal thoughts/actions.

Demons like to get people to kill themselves, its their goal, but just walking around completey deceived is ok with them too, this way the deception spreads

Jase · Mar 20, 2012

xfreakazoidx said:
This is why gays say they are christian and think they go to heaven. If you are gay you are living in sin, and therefor you cannot have salvation until you get rid of that sin. This becomes a complex issue.

Being gay is not a sin Freak, I really wish you would educate yourself on this. Although we're obviously not allowed to discuss it. Being gay has nothing to do with behavior.

And orientation has nothing to do with Gender identity.

Jase · Mar 20, 2012

Cactus Jack said:
Philis, are you a Christian? have you accepted Jesus as your Savior? Tell us about that.
Leaving everything else on the "side of the road, tell us about your acceptance of Jesus.

Did you not read the OP? It says she is Christian.

Jase · Mar 20, 2012

peggy sue said:
funny how to you the bible has absolutely no validity one moment, and in the next here you are quoting scripture as if you believe its the Word of God, and people should follow its teaching

I don't believe it's the Word of God, seeing as to claim so would be idolatry. That doesn't mean I consider it entirely useless.

Jase · Mar 20, 2012

peggy sue said:
you have your own surprises waiting for you

This sounds like a threat to me.

Jase · Mar 20, 2012

peggy sue said:
Demons like to get people to kill themselves, its their goal, but just walking around completey deceived is ok with them too, this way the deception spreads

And what makes you think you aren't deceived?

Philis · Mar 20, 2012

JoeyArnold said:
No. If you're truly saved then this is less an issue of salvation (soteriology) & more an issue of following Christ (fellowship, discipleship, WWJD).

You are right about this, thanks for clarifying your view here.

No, because who you are is based off truth not how you feel about it. Emotions can reflect truth but that's not always the case since sin (Romans 5:12) cursed & influenced & blinded our intuition, perception, feelings, ability to reason, etc. No, because the question is answered at birth because if it weren't then the ELEVENTH commandment would be "Thou shalt search thy feelings & pursue what thou thinketh & feel deep inside thyself, whether that be male or female as oppose to whatever sex or gender thou were born with."

And the truth is that I'm female in the head, and your perception that I am actually male just how you feel about it.

Your point about the eleventh commandment seems weak. Couldn't it also have been "do not change genders."?

But cross-dressing hurts others.

How?

Can you rephrase the answer or response to Dag's question: is your desire to be female related to GID or how do you describe it? Jeremiah 17:9: don't trust your heart. Trust in Christ, truth, over feelings: Proverbs 3:5-6. You will either serve as a good or bad example, testimony, either as somebody who chose to align their body's gender either to their soul or to their heart.

I have an appointment with a professional next month, so the details of my brain/hormones/neurology/etc are still unclear. I'll find out more what's happening later.

Philis · Mar 20, 2012

There are some pretty big posts I would still like to respond to but I'll have to come back, it will take too long and I don't have the time at the moment.

mindfulness · Mar 20, 2012

Considering how the Bible denounces marriage and elevates singlehood to godly status as the ideal, why does anyone care what gender the TC wants to be?

In heaven, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, right?

So what does it matter? God is concerned with the heart, not the genitals. :doh:

CounselorForChrist · Mar 20, 2012

Being gay is not a sin Freak, I really wish you would educate yourself on this. Although we're obviously not allowed to discuss it. Being gay has nothing to do with behavior.

So when the bible says men should not lay with men?

Theres a reason churches oppose gays.

Considering how the Bible denounces marriage and elevates singlehood to godly status as the ideal, why does anyone care what gender the TC wants to be?

It actually doesn't do that. It treats them as equal. Some are better off being single, others are better off being married.

In heaven, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, right? So what does it matter? God is concerned with the heart, not the genitals.

Thats a horrible ideal to have. "Well its diffrent in heaven!" Well most everything is diffrent in heaven. But we are not there, we are on earth. And while on Earth God gave us laws to follow.

Ugh, this forum has so many wolves amongst the sheep its scary. I can see why younger christian get confused when asked for help with anything. All it takes is one wrong answer to get someone to start thinking the in a way they shouldn't, but thats the devils plan really. He wants us to listen to that one person that says its ok to touch children or kill someone.

We are sinners at birth, so naturally most thoughts we have are bad. If your trying to reason why something is ok, then your listening to the devil. God says to listen to the bible. If you have a question the bible answers it (usually). If you ignore that answer and answer and except men to give you better answers then your looking inn the wrong place. More so if you don't see evidence from men suggesting they are right.

Its not suprising though. Look at my Harry Potter topic. You can give all the evidence in the world and yet many christian will stil ignore it.

To the TC, you can do whatever you want. Ultimatley the only one responsible for you after-life is you. You have to reason with God on why you think the way you do. But if your wrong, you better be ready to pay the price. Its fact that people who become christian when gay or transexual are NOT christian if they don't try to change their lifestyle.

Its like saying "Well I am saved now, I'll still live my life the way I want because I go to heaven either way!" WRONG. You have to change your lifestyle to be more like Jesus. Because if it wans't like that then anyone can "be a chrsistian" and get away with not changing.

For further proof because I know many will ask for it, read this brief thing:

This is a very important question—and a very hard one. There is only one sin that is unforgivable. That is the sin of not believing and not receiving Jesus Christ into your life. A gay or homosexual person can accept Christ, just as an alcoholic, a drug addict, or a mass-murderer can accept Christ. Jesus' offer of salvation is open to everyone.

Can someone accept Christ, not change his lifestyle, and still go to heaven. The Bible teaches that if someone has truly accepted Christ into his life, nothing can keep him out of heaven. In John 10:28, Christ says of Christians,

“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand.”

So, the real question, I believe, is whether someone had a life-changing experience with Christ. Jesus said in Luke,

“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord’ and do not do what I say?”

Someone once put it this way:

“No Jesus, no change. Know Jesus, know change.”

Is someone is trying to overcome their homosexuality? If they are, that's a good sign that Christ is working in their life. God is the only one who truly knows our hearts. He's the only one who truly knows someones heart. But if Christ has become the Lord of someones life, then the Holy Spirit will begin to deal with the sin of homosexuality in their life.

mindfulness · Mar 20, 2012

xfreakazoidx said:
So when the bible says men should not lay with men? Theres a reason churches oppose gays.

It actually doesn't do that. It treats them as equal. Some are better off being single, others are better off being married.

Thats a horrible ideal to have. "Well its diffrent in heaven!" Well most everything is diffrent in heaven. But we are not there, we are on earth. And while on Earth God gave us laws to follow.

Ugh, this forum has so many wolves amongst the sheep its scary. I can see why younger christian get confused when asked for help with anything. All it takes is one wrong answer to get someone to start thinking the in a way they shouldn't, but thats the devils plan really. He wants us to listen to that one person that says its ok to touch children or kill someone.

We are sinners at birth, so naturally most thoughts we have are bad. If your trying to reason why something is ok, then your listening to the devil. God says to listen to the bible. If you have a question the bible answers it (usually). If you ignore that answer and answer and except men to give you better answers then your looking inn the wrong place. More so if you don't see evidence from men suggesting they are right.

Its not suprising though. Look at my Harry Potter topic. You can give all the evidence in the world and yet many christian will stil ignore it.

To the TC, you can do whatever you want. Ultimatley the only one responsible for you after-life is you. You have to reason with God on why you think the way you do. But if your wrong, you better be ready to pay the price. Its fact that people who become christian when gay or transexual are NOT christian if they don't try to change their lifestyle.

Its like saying "Well I am saved now, I'll still live my life the way I want because I go to heaven either way!" WRONG. You have to change your lifestyle to be more like Jesus. Because if it wans't like that then anyone can "be a chrsistian" and get away with not changing.

For further proof because I know many will ask for it, read this brief thing:

I know many Christians who embrace and loves homosexual people.

The NT embraces singlehood as higher than marriage.

How do you know what heaven is like? You've never been there.

Still harping about Harry Potter? lol You are a riot. A real riot.

Fiona01 · Mar 20, 2012

I'm a Christian and I love homosexual people. I always strive (although sadly I fail like every other human being) not to ever judge. I leave that to God. But it does say in the bible about man not laying with another man - that much I know.

But we are never to judge or condemn another. I've learned that a lot, recently.

I think, as the old saying goes, we are to hate the act of sin, never a person. We are all sinners in God's eyes....

mindfulness · Mar 20, 2012

The Bible also says to kill disobedient children and how much you can sell your daughter into slavery for. You can't rely on that alone to justify your morals.

BFine · Mar 20, 2012

Philis said:
Sorry but I feel like you're speaking in code now. Could you please just say what you are getting at in your own words and how it relates to my question?

*No code...just
Uphold God's Word...not our "feelings/heart".
Die to self/flesh...It's not a one time thing...Apostle Paul stated he
dies daily...many of us need to die daily to our "flesh".

Romans 8:5-8
Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

We are to work on disciplining our "flesh" --"conform" it to God's Word. Like Christ when he was tempted so frequently by the devil in the wilderness--Christ worked the Word in his earthly life...I also note he prayed a lot.

*My personal feelings do not always agree with the Word of God...
when I was more carnal minded...I too gave in to my "feelings" and
suffered for it...my faith walk with the lord became a mess but I sure had a lot of "friends" who upheld me in all that I did when I foolishly served the idea that it is fine to pursue whatever it was in life that makes you feel happy and or complete-- because after all it's how you feel that counts...

I found myself estranged from God...in short, I was a backslider.
I returned to the Lord in early 2001 and went through the long process of growing up in the faith...my old flesh gave me a real work out!
I severed old ties with my former life and ideals that didn't line up with biblical standards.

Many times it felt like I was going through...Hebrews 10:33 and Romans 8:36

Fiona01 · Mar 20, 2012

mindfulness said:
The Bible also says to kill disobedient children and how much you can sell your daughter into slavery for. You can't rely on that alone to justify your morals.

You are right - the OT does say things that many of us would not actually do now. I am just reiterating Freakazoids point - it does say that, and that is why some/many Christians see homosexuality as wrong.

As for myself, I try hard to stay out of the path of judgement - I will not say "this is right," or "this is wrong" to a fellow person, because that's the Lords call to make. (I will try to help, or to offer advice, etc. But I strive not to condemn/judge, because I am a sinner myself, who has made awful mistakes).

I trust Jesus' own words - God's own words - the gospel and deliverance from sin. Which leads me to "Do not judge or condemn." I won't stand before Philis and say he is doing wrong - but I think he needs to tread carefully, because as others have pointed out, once this operation is done, it can do a lot of damage if regret rears its head.

Jase · Mar 20, 2012

xfreakazoidx said:
So when the bible says men should not lay with men? Theres a reason churches oppose gays.

The verse was written in Hebrew, not English Freak. Did you bother to read the preceding verse to see its context? It's referring to temple worship practices (pagan prostitution). It was not referring to gay people, since sexual orientation was unknown at the time. The Bible also says people who work on Saturday should be executed, as should children who back talk to their parents. I don't see you bringing those up on this board. The church opposes gays because of ignorant people who create false doctrines and demonize people they don't understand.

Please stop discussing things you do not understand. It's also banned on this board.

Jase · Mar 20, 2012

Fiona01 said:
I'm a Christian and I love homosexual people. I always strive (although sadly I fail like every other human being) not to ever judge. I leave that to God. But it does say in the bible about man not laying with another man - that much I know.

Not quite. It doesn't mean that in Hebrew. It also adds the clause, "As with woman" (which means roughly lie the lyings (beds) of woman in Hebrew) and is immediately following a change in subject matter referring to child sacrifice to the god Molech. It's not placed in the context discussing sexual matters like incest.

However, again, Gender Identity has nothing to do with orientation. And the topic is banned here.

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