St. Patrick kept the 7th Day Sabbath!

TruthWave7 · Mar 17, 2012

Since today is St. Patrick's Day, I thought it might be a good time to bring this important fact to light in honor of St. Patrick. Namely, that he was a 7th day Sabbath keeper till his death.

Note, the historical quotes below:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Catholic[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] historian, T. Ratcliffe Barnett, on the Catholic queen of Scotland: "[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In this matter the Scots had perhaps kept up the traditional usage of the ancient Irish Church WHICH OBSERVED SATURDAY INSTEAD OF SUNDAY AS THE DAY OF REST[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]."
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Margaret of Scotland: Queen and Saint, page 97
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He (Patrick) never mentions either Rome or the pope or hints that he was in any way connected with the ecclesiastical capital of Italy. He recognizes no authority but that of the word of God . . . When Palladius arrived in the country, it was not to be expected that he would receive a very hearty welcome from the Irish apostle. If he was sent by [Pope] Celestine to the native Christians to be their primate or archbishop, no wonder that stouthearted Patrick refused to bow his neck to any such yoke of bondage.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ecclesiastical History of Ireland, vol. 1, pp. 12-15
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]200 years after Patrick (Michelet writing of Boniface, the pope's apostle to the Germans): "His chief hatred is to the Scots [the name equally given to the Scotch and Irish], and he especially condemns their allowing their priests to marry."
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]History of France, vol. 1, page 74
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It (the Papacy) labored to gather Patrick into its fold by inventing all kinds of history and fables to make him a papal hero. It surrounded with a halo of glory a certain Palladius, apparently sent by Rome to Ireland in the midst of Patrick's success. He also has been called Patrick.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]St. Patrick, His Life and Teaching, page 33, note 1
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Historian A. C. Flick writes: "The Celts used a Latin Bible unlike the Vulgate, and [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]kept Saturday as a day of rest[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], with special religious services on Sunday."
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Rise of the Medieval Church, page 237
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"It seems to have been customary in the Celtic churches of early times, in Ireland as well as Scotland, to keep Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, as a day of rest from labor. They obeyed the fourth commandment literally upon the seventh day of the week."
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Church in Scotland, page140, James C. Moffatt, D.D.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"In this latter instance they seemed to have followed a custom of which we find traces in the early monastic church of Ireland by which they held Saturday to be the Sabbath on which they rested from all their labours."
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Adamnan Life of St. Columba, page 96), W.T. Skene
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Optimax · Mar 17, 2012

Just goes to show ya. Anybody that wears green all the time is confused about a lot of things!

TruthWave7 · Mar 17, 2012

Optimax said:
Just goes to show ya. Anybody that wears green all the time is confused about a lot of things!

What it says about St. Patrick is the fact that he didn't bow to the Papacy and its day of worship on Sunday which is based church tradition. Patrick was a true Protestant before his time.

Sophia7 · Mar 17, 2012

From Seventh-day Adventist to Roman Catholic: The Real, Real St Patrick:

My colleagues will testify to the fact that Adventism has taken a late interest in the life and exploits of St. Patrick (whose feast we commemorate today). Since the publication of Leslie Hardinge's Celtic Church in Great Britain, Adventists have tried to claim St. Patrick as a fellow Sabbath-keeper and non-Catholic. I once had an Adventist college professor make such groundless claims in front of a class--claims I quickly responded to by e-mail. . . .

There is also no direct evidence Patrick was a Sabbath-keeper. In The Celtic Church in Britain, Hardinge's only evidence to that effect is a passage in Muirchus account of Patricks life (written two centuries later) that records regular supernatural encounters between Patrick and angels on the Sabbath day. However, Muirchu never states that Patrick observed a Sabbath rest on that day. By contrast, the entire text regularly emphasizes Patricks observance of the Lords day.

Now, this legend does suggest that Patrick may have considered the Sabbath a significant day; most Christians (especially in the East) did as well. (It is well known that the Celtic Church in Britain appears to have had more commonalities with Eastern Christianity than its Western counterpart). However, few post-Nicene Christians translated this widespread liturgical/theological veneration for the Sabbath into an actual observance of the Sabbath rest. Without positive evidence, the possibility should be considered unlikely. Furthermore, one should bear in mind that even if Patrick observed some sort of Sabbath rest, it was almost certainly followed by a Sunday rest as well. No evidence from the period suggests that Christian Sabbatarianism was practiced to the exclusion of Dominicalism. In fact, the praise of Patricks reverence for the Lords day (in Muirchu, among others) gives added weight to that caveat.

listed · Mar 17, 2012

Sophia7 said:
From Seventh-day Adventist to Roman Catholic: The Real, Real St Patrick:

My colleagues will testify to the fact that Adventism has taken a late interest in the life and exploits of St. Patrick (whose feast we commemorate today). Since the publication of Leslie Hardinge's Celtic Church in Great Britain, Adventists have tried to claim St. Patrick as a fellow Sabbath-keeper and non-Catholic. I once had an Adventist college professor make such groundless claims in front of a class--claims I quickly responded to by e-mail. . . .

There is also no direct evidence Patrick was a Sabbath-keeper. In The Celtic Church in Britain, Hardinge's only evidence to that effect is a passage in Muirchus account of Patricks life (written two centuries later) that records regular supernatural encounters between Patrick and angels on the Sabbath day. However, Muirchu never states that Patrick observed a Sabbath rest on that day. By contrast, the entire text regularly emphasizes Patricks observance of the Lords day.

Now, this legend does suggest that Patrick may have considered the Sabbath a significant day; most Christians (especially in the East) did as well. (It is well known that the Celtic Church in Britain appears to have had more commonalities with Eastern Christianity than its Western counterpart). However, few post-Nicene Christians translated this widespread liturgical/theological veneration for the Sabbath into an actual observance of the Sabbath rest. Without positive evidence, the possibility should be considered unlikely. Furthermore, one should bear in mind that even if Patrick observed some sort of Sabbath rest, it was almost certainly followed by a Sunday rest as well. No evidence from the period suggests that Christian Sabbatarianism was practiced to the exclusion of Dominicalism. In fact, the praise of Patricks reverence for the Lords day (in Muirchu, among others) gives added weight to that caveat.

Excellent work. He's busted once again. Now I expect to hear that is fraudulent.

Sophia7 · Mar 17, 2012

From Muirchu's Life of St. Patrick:

Chapter 24: Of the heathen folk working on the Lords day in defiance of Patricks instructions

Now on another occasion when St. Patrick was resting on the Lords Day at the seaside, by the salt marsh which is on the northern shore, not very far away from the Hill of the Ox, he heard a loud noise of heathen folk working on the Lords Day, making a rampart. Patrick called them and forbad them to work on the Lords Day. But they did not agree with what the Saint said; they even burst into laughter and mocked him.

And St. Patrick said, Mudebrothf [Mudebrod]! Although ye labor, it will not profit you. And this was fulfilled; for on the following night a mighty wind arose and stirred up the sea; and the storm destroyed the whole work of the heathen folk, just as foretold by the Saint.

Sophia7 · Mar 17, 2012

And from an Adventist source, St. Patrick, the Saint for All of Us? | Spectrum Magazine:

In recent years, even some Adventists have found reasons to love Irelands patron saint, claiming that Patrick kept the Seventh-day Sabbath. Their claims are based on a book by Leslie Hardinge The Celtic Church in Britain which TEACH Services republished in 2005. . . .

In his Life of Patrick, the seventh century historian Muirchu also tells of how God visited Patrick every seventh-day, so if Patrick didnt keep the seventh-day as Sabbath, apparently God did and found in the missionary Patrick a willing listener. But it is hard to know what to believe from the Muichu document which tells of Patricks many miracles, including raising someone from the dead. Certainly, Patrick comes across as the Moses of Ireland leading them away from pagan gods to Christ. But writing several centuries after Patrick lived, Muichu was working in and from a tradition that was marked by biblical stories retold with would be saints as central characters. Miracles were the point of these stories. Modern skeptics thus are left feeling they know more about the writers of the stories than truly about the historical persons.

Since Patrick also predates the monastic movement in Celtic Christianity, in which spiritual seekers of recent years have found much to admire, it is difficult to say for sure that one truly knows what Patrick did in Ireland, other than preaching about Christ. He is acknowledged for starting the great missionary movement of the Celtic Church. Details of his biography aside, it is not difficult to know that Patrick was an ardent follower of Christ. His prayer known as Patricks Breastplate has inspired generations.

TruthWave7 · Mar 17, 2012

listed said:
Excellent work. He's busted once again. Now I expect to hear that is fraudulent.
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What is explodes your premise is that I didn't quote any SDA authors or historians, all historical references were non-SDAs, and even a Catholic historian verified the the fact that St. Patrick kept the 7th day Sabbath.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Catholic[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] historian, T. Ratcliffe Barnett, on the Catholic queen of Scotland: "[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In this matter the Scots had perhaps kept up the traditional usage of the ancient Irish Church WHICH OBSERVED SATURDAY INSTEAD OF SUNDAY AS THE DAY OF REST[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]."
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Margaret of Scotland: Queen and Saint, page 97
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Albion · Mar 17, 2012

TruthWave7 said:
What it says about St. Patrick is the fact that he didn't bow to the Papacy and its day of worship on Sunday which is based church tradition. Patrick was a true Protestant before his time.

No. The British Church was founded and flourished from early times independent of the Church at Rome.

That's not the same as your claim, i.e. that these were "Protestants."

TruthWave7 · Mar 17, 2012

Albion said:
No. The British Church was founded and flourished from early times independent of the Church at Rome.

That's not the same as your claim, i.e. that these were "Protestants."

I agree with your first statement. But, I think you misunderstood my last statement. I said that he was "Protestant" before his time, in respect to St. Patrick's refusal to bow to the dictates of Rome.

Albion · Mar 17, 2012

TruthWave7 said:
I agree with your first statement. But, I think you misunderstood my last statement. I said that he was "Protestant" before his time, in respect to St. Patrick's refusal to bow to the dictates of Rome.

Was the Roman Church dictating a Sunday worship to him that he refused to obey? I don't think so.

You see, my point is that the Celtic church was not in opposition to Rome and certainly not advocating what the Protestant churches of a later time did. It was simply independent and unconcerned with the Church of Rome.

Sophia7 · Mar 17, 2012

Albion said:
Was the Roman Church dictating a Sunday worship to him that he refused to obey? I don't think so.

You see, my point is that the Celtic church was not in opposition to Rome and certainly not advocating what the Protestant churches of a later time did. It was simply independent and unconcerned with the Church of Rome.

The Celtic Church was more in alignment with Eastern Christianity than with Western (Roman) Christianity in some respects, but it was still more Catholic than Protestant. Even TruthWave's own sources show that. He and other Adventists quote them second- or third-handedly, out of context. I'll cite an example in my next post.

Sophia7 · Mar 18, 2012

TruthWave7 said:
What is explodes your premise is that I didn't quote any SDA authors or historians, all historical references were non-SDAs, and even a Catholic historian verified the the fact that St. Patrick kept the 7th day Sabbath.

TruthWave7 said:
Since today is St. Patrick's Day, I thought it might be a good time to bring this important fact to light in honor of St. Patrick. Namely, that he was a 7th day Sabbath keeper till his death.

Note, the historical quotes below:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Catholic[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] historian, T. Ratcliffe Barnett, on the Catholic queen of Scotland: "[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In this matter the Scots had perhaps kept up the traditional usage of the ancient Irish Church WHICH OBSERVED SATURDAY INSTEAD OF SUNDAY AS THE DAY OF REST[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]."
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Margaret of Scotland: Queen and Saint, page 97
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He (Patrick) never mentions either Rome or the pope or hints that he was in any way connected with the ecclesiastical capital of Italy. He recognizes no authority but that of the word of God . . . When Palladius arrived in the country, it was not to be expected that he would receive a very hearty welcome from the Irish apostle. If he was sent by [Pope] Celestine to the native Christians to be their primate or archbishop, no wonder that stouthearted Patrick refused to bow his neck to any such yoke of bondage.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ecclesiastical History of Ireland, vol. 1, pp. 12-15
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]200 years after Patrick (Michelet writing of Boniface, the pope's apostle to the Germans): "His chief hatred is to the Scots [the name equally given to the Scotch and Irish], and he especially condemns their allowing their priests to marry."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]History of France, vol. 1, page 74
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It (the Papacy) labored to gather Patrick into its fold by inventing all kinds of history and fables to make him a papal hero. It surrounded with a halo of glory a certain Palladius, apparently sent by Rome to Ireland in the midst of Patrick's success. He also has been called Patrick.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]St. Patrick, His Life and Teaching, page 33, note 1
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Historian A. C. Flick writes: "The Celts used a Latin Bible unlike the Vulgate, and [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]kept Saturday as a day of rest[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], with special religious services on Sunday."
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Rise of the Medieval Church, page 237
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"It seems to have been customary in the Celtic churches of early times, in Ireland as well as Scotland, to keep Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, as a day of rest from labor. They obeyed the fourth commandment literally upon the seventh day of the week."
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Church in Scotland, page140, James C. Moffatt, D.D.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"In this latter instance they seemed to have followed a custom of which we find traces in the early monastic church of Ireland by which they held Saturday to be the Sabbath on which they rested from all their labours."
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Adamnan Life of St. Columba, page 96), W.T. Skene
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Your quotes have been taken out of context. For example, here is the context of the statement from Flick's book The Rise of the Medieval Church:

The Monks sent to England by Pope Gregory the Great soon came to see that the Celtic Church differed from theirs in many respects. Augustine himself, having concluded an alliance between Ethelbert and the Roman See, held several conferences with the Christian Celts in order to accomplish the most difficult task of their subjugation to Roman authority. These differences were largely ritualistic and discliplinary. The Celtic Christians celebrated Easter according to the calculation of Sulpicius Severus, while the Romans had another method of computing the proper day. The Celts appealed to St. John, the Romans to St. Peter. The Celtic Church might be called a monastic Church, since the abbot ruled over the bishop. The Celts shaved the front of the head from ear to ear as a tonsure, while the Romans shaved the top of the head leaving a "crown of thorns." The Celts permitted their priests to marry, the Romans forbade it. The Celts used a different mode of baptism from that of the Romans, namely, single instead of trine immersion. The calendar for all movable festivals was not the same. The Celts held their own councils and enacted their own laws, independent of Rome. The Celts used a Latin Bible unlike the Vulgate, and kept Saturday as a day of rest, with special religious services on Sunday. Notwithstanding these variances, which do not seem to be at all on the fundamentals, there were many doctrinal and constitutional resemblances. Both churches were orthodox; both used a Latin ritual; both had developed an episcopal organisation; both believed in monasticism; and both were actively engaged in missionary work. (236-238)

Notice that even the portion that you quoted says that the Celts used a Latin Bible and held religious services on Sundays. The context describes a Celtic Church that was more Catholic than Protestant in its doctrines and practices and indicates that the variances did not "seem to be at all on the fundamentals." Wouldn't the Sabbath have been considered a "fundamental" if it were at issue in the differences between Celtic and Roman Christians?

Also, Flick notes the differences in the dates for celebrating Easter between Celtic and Roman Christians. The reference to Severus has to do with this controversy:

The differences in the way of fixing the period of Easter did not indeed disappear after the Council of Nicea. Alexandria and Rome could not agree, either because one of the two Churches neglected to make the calculation for Easter, or because the other considered it inaccurate. It is a fact, proved by the ancient Easter table of the Roman Church, that the cycle of eighty-four years continued to be used at Rome as before. Now this cycle differed in many ways from the Alexandrian, and did not always agree with it about the period for Easter. . . .

Even after Victor's calculations, there still remained great differences in the manner of fixing the celebration of Easter; and it was Dionysius the Less who first completely overcame them, by giving to the Latins a paschal table having as its basis the cycle of nineteen years. This cycle perfectly corresponded to that of Alexandria, and thus established that harmony which had been so long sought in vain. He showed the advantages of his calculation so strongly, that it was admitted by Rome and by the whole of Italy; whilst almost the whole of Gaul remained faithful to Victor's canon, and Great Britain still held the 'cycle of eighty-four years, a little improved by Sulpicius Severus. When the Heptarchy was evangelized by the Roman missionaries, the new converts accepted the calculation of Dionysius, whilst the ancient Churches of Wales held fast their old tradition. From this arose the well-known British dissensions about the celebration of Easter, which were transplanted by Columban into Gaul. In 729, the majority of the ancient British Churches accepted the cycle of nineteen years. It had before been introduced into Spain, immediately after the conversion of Reccared. Finally, under Charles the Great, the cycle of nineteen years triumphed over all opposition; and thus the whole of Christendom was united, for the Quartodecimans had gradually disappeared.(1) (Internet History Sourcebooks Project)

The controversy over when to celebrate Easter was a huge source of conflict between Celtic and Roman Christians, as Flick also describes in his book, and eventually Celtic Christians conformed to the Roman method of dating. (See pages 239-241.) There is no evidence of such a controversy over the Sabbath and Sunday, however, as one would expect if the Celts were in disagreement with Rome in regard to their weekly day of worship. However, again, the statement from Flick that you yourself quoted says that the Celtic Christians were holding religious services on Sundays.

Pythons · Mar 18, 2012

TruthWave7 said:
What is explodes your premise is that I didn't quote any SDA authors or historians, all historical references were non-SDAs, and even a Catholic historian verified the the fact that St. Patrick kept the 7th day Sabbath.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Catholic[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] historian, T. Ratcliffe Barnett, on the Catholic queen of Scotland: "[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In this matter the Scots had perhaps kept up the traditional usage of the ancient Irish Church WHICH OBSERVED SATURDAY INSTEAD OF SUNDAY AS THE DAY OF REST[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]."[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Margaret of Scotland: Queen and Saint, page 97[/FONT]
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& what explodes your premise is that while St. Patrick thought Sabbath was important...
...He thought Sunday was more important - as did all Christians back then.
...But you didn't mention that.

bbbbbbb · Mar 18, 2012

This is one of the great beauties of revisionist history - making it fit your own worldview.

TruthWave7 · Mar 18, 2012

Pythons said:
& what explodes your premise is that while St. Patrick thought Sabbath was important...
...He thought Sunday was more important - as did all Christians back then.
...But you didn't mention that.

Just the fact that Patrick honored Sabbath proves that he recognized and kept the Sabbath day holy, by resting from secular labor on that day, and worshiping, proving the fact that he did not bow to Rome's bidding.

TruthWave7 · Mar 18, 2012

bbbbbbb said:
This is one of the great beauties of revisionist history - making it fit your own worldview.

Ignoring the facts of history is delusional thinking. Do you deny that Patrick kept the 7th day Sabbath?! This fact alone throws a monkey wrench into the Sunday only mindset that all Christians started keeping Sunday only, after Jesus' death. That is so not true, and history proves its not true.

Sarcalogos Deus · Mar 18, 2012

TruthWave7 said:
What it says about St. Patrick is the fact that he didn't bow to the Papacy and its day of worship on Sunday which is based church tradition. Patrick was a true Protestant before his time.

Not really. It's well known that during the period we call the Dark Ages Ireland was largely cut off from the rest of the world and preserved the Church centered around monasteries. Later Patrick was ordained a bishop in Britain and sent back to Ireland to establish the first Bishopric there. Since then the Irish people have been firmly part of the Roman Catholic Church.

listed · Mar 18, 2012

TruthWave7 said:
Ignoring the facts of history is delusional thinking. Do you deny that Patrick kept the 7th day Sabbath?! This fact alone throws a monkey wrench into the Sunday only mindset that all Christians started keeping Sunday only, after Jesus' death. That is so not true, and history proves its not true.

Well at least it is nice that you qualified your statement.

Albion · Mar 18, 2012

TruthWave7 said:
Just the fact that Patrick honored Sabbath proves that he recognized and kept the Sabbath day holy, by resting from secular labor on that day, and worshiping, proving the fact that he did not bow to Rome's bidding.

Sophia's correct, from all that I know, but you didn't answer my question and apparantely cannot answer it.

There's no refusal to bow to Rome's bidding unless there actually was a bid from Rome! And there's no reason for Rome to lean on the Celtic church over the Sabbath if the Celts were keeping Sunday as the Lord's Day.

St. Patrick kept the 7th Day Sabbath!

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