the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

Noxot

anarchist personalist
Supporter
Aug 6, 2007
8,191
2,450
37
dallas, texas
Visit site
✟231,339.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
origen pointed this out to me one time. that job did sin against God in his mind. but now I have a feeling that this is teaching something that I did not know before. it appears that job charged God with wrong in his mind ( I mean that his soul had a wrong perception about who God was and that was considered a sin). this is amazing. I have been talking about that God is good only.

Job 1:22 (ESV)
(1:22) In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.

Job 2:10 (ESV)
(2:10) But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.


i don't know anything for sure because I am not wise enough and I don't understand what woman means like maybe some of you do. Job says "Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?”

it looks like this was jobs sin to me. I don't know if he said anything to this woman with his tongue and i don't think he did but i don't know how to prove it for certain so it is just a theory. it looks like he accused God of giving people evil. my theory is that God does not directly give evil to men but job seems to be thinking that God does give bad gifts to men. I believe that the scriptures say that God gives only good things but sometimes mankind turns His gifts into evil. and I think that is why we can not accuse God of making us into a bad pot because He was only trying to make us good and not evil but we became evil of our own free will. I believe the word says that God does not give evil to people.

this is based on "only God is good" and "God is Love" and that the spiritual meaning is harder to understand that how the literal looks. so i want to try to learn more about this and see if it is correct. if you would learn about free will and how God says He sometimes hardens peoples hearts then you will have a firmer grasp about what I mean that God does not give evil to people.

please someone explain to me more what the spiritual meaning of woman is.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

x141

...
Sep 25, 2011
5,138
466
Where you are ...
Visit site
✟25,111.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The story of the woman caught in adultery is the same as the book of Job. Just a different view of the same thing. Her accusers are the same as her first accuser, the man or beast that tills the field. To sin no more is to only have one husband. The woman of Genesis has two seed donors, one is from without the garden and one is from within the garden, but it is the same woman. In Revelations you don't see the heavenly Bride until the harlot is left desolate. She too is the same woman. The book of Job as the book of Revelation is set up in feasts as well, Job is passover as is John, the wandering that follows is pentecost. Tabernacles, for Job like it was for John is when he turns to see the Life of the woman. Adam, when he was created was both male and female. When Adam has a son after his own image and after his own likeness it never says that he knew Eve. Seth is the new man but his woman is unclean all the days of her separation Enoch is both thew seventh and the eight from Adam. His woman becomes clean when Enoch becomes And Enoch was not. Like the earth in the beginning, without form and void.

You can hear the femine speaking through Jesus when He said, I can do nothing of myself as you can hear in Job's speech after he turns.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Wheeler

Member
Oct 17, 2006
1,055
24
✟16,325.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Lot judged himself with his own tongue….the “potsherd”. He humbled himself.

Job 2:8-10 KJV
(8) And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.

Interesting note here: The Hebrew word for “curse” is “barak”….which means BLESS…BLESS….BLESS. It should be saying “bless God and kill”.

This is the “woman” offering the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to the hidden man of the heart. “BLESS GOD AND DIE”……

(9) Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.

But Lot did not partake of this "fruit". He did not heed this bad advice. Lot did not sin with his lips. “Sin” is the SPEAKING of evil. If it does not escape the heart via the mouth is it sin then?

Lot did not curse the men….his “friends”…who came forward to test him even though they accused him of evil and not knowing what he was talking about. He did not render evil for evil.

(10) But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

We can not “bless God” and “kill” ….that is, to curse….other men…even though they will come forward to test our faith in the Word of Truth in this last day. Lot did not fall for the deception of the serpent who said from the beginning that by “killing, you shall not die”. We can not “kill” (cursing) others with our tongues and then turn around and “bless God” with the same mouth. This is the partaking of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

James 3:8-13 KJV
(8) But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
(9) Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
(10) Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
(11) Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
(12) Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
(13) Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

The “woman” is the tongue. With the tongue, we “sin”…..transgress. The tongue gives the heart the “fruit” of death by transgressing….cursing others.

1 Timothy 2:13-15 KJV
(13) For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
(14) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

The tongue shall be saved by confessing. Lot confessed with his mouth.

(15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

With the mouth, confession is made (“childbearing”) unto salvation. We are to acknowledge the Truth of God in this last day…..our Lord Jesus. He is the Truth…..our “truths” are in error. His thoughts and ways are higher than ours.

Romans 10:8-11 KJV
(8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

The “woman” shall be saved in “childbearing”….acknowledging the Truth….unto salvation. We can then be prepared to preach the Word of God in Truth by continuing in faith and love for the Truth and behaving lovingly with each other.

(10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Job believed in his heart…..for with the heart man believes unto righteousness. Lot did not sin with his lips.

Instead, with the mouth, Lot confessed unto salvation that God is true and that his own “knowledge” was something to repent of. He acknowledged the Truth of God was higher than his own. He “lost” his “life” to save it. The “friends” of Lot did not confess the Truth but stubbornly clung on to their own thoughts and ways.

Job 42:1-7 KJV
(1) Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
(2) I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
(3) Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
(4) Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

When we hear and understand the Truth in this last day, we are to “abhor” our own thoughts and ways….for they are in error. Let God be true and every man a liar.

(5) I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
(6) Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
(7) And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
 
Upvote 0

Noxot

anarchist personalist
Supporter
Aug 6, 2007
8,191
2,450
37
dallas, texas
Visit site
✟231,339.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I still don't understand enough. is what the woman said Job 2:9-10 (ESV)
(2:9) Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die.” (2:10) But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.


was it good or bad. I always thought what she said was bad. now I am thinking this woman seems like someone I have heard before. to me it now seems she was saying something good. or am I still being so dull that i don't get anything. I could have swore I saw something. I want to know. job did not sin with his lips. if the lips are this woman then what she said is good right? but it says job did not sin with his lips! I am sorry that right now I am so dull. I understand that the greek version of job is very different from the hebrew. very troubling but I know God has a solution.

i'm trying to recall if job was one of the books that was not to be read until a certain age by the jews i think. could it be because it is very confusing or did they do it because of the suffering i wonder. I know song of solomon was restricted too because most people just turn that book into something fleshly and I think some people would say that that book was restricted because of the fleshly content. ;S
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

x141

...
Sep 25, 2011
5,138
466
Where you are ...
Visit site
✟25,111.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Her words are the same as Jesus' mother's words "They have no wine" within them, in the field is a treasure hidden, you sell all that you have to buy the field. For Job, all he had left was his integrity.

Face it, we can do nothing of ourselves. To read or not to read is an eating all the same. Both good and evil knowledge are the same path. It is neither. It is the destination that the two points of reference cause you to find, but you must leave both points of reference. There is only one woman but two donors, one is without the garden (where the man that tills the field was made of) and one from within the garden, the midst of the garden. The One in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks.

The mind, woman is unclean all the days of her separation. When you turn your teachers words become that which is cast behind you. Behind them a wilderness (who is this that comes up out of the wilderness leaning on her beloved) before them the garden of God. Two came out of the Garden only One returns.

Isa 30:20-23 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers: And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence. Then shall he give the rain of thy seed, that thou shalt sow the ground withal; and bread of the increase of the earth, and it shall be fat and plenteous: in that day shall thy cattle feed in large pastures.

It is all a turning, from here it is an ascending, farther in and farther up ... an increase without end ...
 
Upvote 0

timbo3

Newbie
Nov 4, 2006
581
22
East Texas
✟18,582.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Married
origen pointed this out to me one time. that job did sin against God in his mind. but now I have a feeling that this is teaching something that I did not know before. it appears that job charged God with wrong in his mind ( I mean that his soul had a wrong perception about who God was and that was considered a sin). this is amazing. I have been talking about that God is good only.

Job 1:22 (ESV)
(1:22) In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.

Job 2:10 (ESV)
(2:10) But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.


i don't know anything for sure because I am not wise enough and I don't understand what woman means like maybe some of you do. Job says "Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?”

it looks like this was jobs sin to me. I don't know if he said anything to this woman with his tongue and i don't think he did but i don't know how to prove it for certain so it is just a theory. it looks like he accused God of giving people evil. my theory is that God does not directly give evil to men but job seems to be thinking that God does give bad gifts to men. I believe that the scriptures say that God gives only good things but sometimes mankind turns His gifts into evil. and I think that is why we can not accuse God of making us into a bad pot because He was only trying to make us good and not evil but we became evil of our own free will. I believe the word says that God does not give evil to people.

this is based on "only God is good" and "God is Love" and that the spiritual meaning is harder to understand that how the literal looks. so i want to try to learn more about this and see if it is correct. if you would learn about free will and how God says He sometimes hardens peoples hearts then you will have a firmer grasp about what I mean that God does not give evil to people.

please someone explain to me more what the spiritual meaning of woman is.

The woman Job spoke to was his wife.(Job 2:9, 10, though there is a spiritual "woman" as at Isaiah 54 and 60, Revelation 12) Earlier, after having been unknowingly attacked by Satan, causing both the loss of his sons and daughters and his livestock, Job was feeling such the depth of loss, especially his children, that he ripped his sleeveless coat apart and cut the hair off his head and falling to the earth, saying: "Naked I came out of my mother’s belly, and naked shall I return there. Jehovah himself has given, and Jehovah himself has taken away. Let the name of Jehovah continue to be blessed."(Job 1:21, New World Translation)

Satan wanted Job to curse Jehovah God, with him blasphemously telling God: "Have not you yourself put up a hedge about him and about his house and about everything that he has all around? The work of his hands you have blessed, and his livestock itself has spread abroad in the earth. But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.”(Job 1:10, 11)

However, though losing most everything, including his children, "Job did not sin or ascribe anything improper to God."(Job 1:22) Satan now sought to exert ever greater pressure on Job to curse God, to relinquish his integrity. An issue has now arose again, that of sovereignty, whether Job will cede to Satan and his rulership or maintain his integrity to Jehovah God.

This issue, of God's right to establish moral boundaries for his creation, was challenged by Satan in the Garden of Eden some 2, 500 years earlier.(Gen 3:4, 5) At that time, Eve took the bait and literally the fruit from the "tree of knowledge of good and bad", that neither Adam nor Eve were permitted to even touch.(Gen 3:1-3, 6)

To exert greater pressure on Job to break his integrity, Satan now went before Jehovah God, with God asking Satan: "Just where do you come from?”. Satan responds: "From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.” Jehovah is well aware that Satan has his eye upon Job again, for Job had not failed in his loyalty to God despite all his loses of both family and livestock.

Hence Jehovah now says: "Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad? Even yet he is holding fast his integrity, although you incite me against him to swallow him up without cause."(Job 2:1-3)

Satan now brings the issue to a head, extending to everyone on the face of the earth, telling Jehovah: "Skin in behalf of skin, and everything that a man (not just Job) has he will give in behalf of his soul. For a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch as far as his bone and his flesh [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.”(Job 2:4, 5)

Now the issue of universal sovereignty has now been placed upon all mankind by Satan, as to whether anyone will establish and maintain his integrity to God or give it up "in behalf of his soul" or life. Jesus said: "If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and continually follow me. For whoever wants to save his soul will lose it; but whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it."(Matt 16:24, 25)

It is evident that the spirit son who became Satan knew Jehovah as a God of moral standards, not as a capricious, erratic person. Had he known Jehovah as a God given to uncontrolled, violent outbursts, he could only have expected immediate, on-the-spot extermination for the course he took.

The issue Satan raised in Eden, therefore, was not simply a test of Jehovah’s mightiness or power to destroy. Rather, it was a moral issue: that of God’s moral right to exercise universal sovereignty and require implicit obedience and devotion of all of his creatures in all places. Satan’s approach to Eve reveals this. (Gen 3:1-6)

Likewise, the book of Job relates how Jehovah God brings out into the open before all his assembled angelic sons the extent of the position taken by his Adversary. Satan made the claim that the loyalty of Job (and, by implication, of any of God’s intelligent creatures) toward Jehovah was not wholehearted, not based on true devotion and genuine love.(Job 1:6-22; 2:1-8)

Thus, the question of integrity on the part of God’s intelligent creatures was a secondary, or subsidiary, issue arising out of the primary issue of God’s right to universal sovereignty. These questions would require time in order for the veracity or falsity of the charges to be demonstrated, for the heart attitude of God’s creatures to be proved, and thus for the issue to be settled beyond any doubt. (Compare Job 23:10; 31:5, 6; Ec 8:11-13; Heb 5:7-9)

Jehovah thus did not immediately execute the rebellious human pair nor the spirit son who raised the issue, and so the two foretold ‘seeds,’ representing opposite sides of the issue, would come into existence.(Gen 3:15)

That this issue still remained alive when Jesus Christ was on earth is seen from his confrontation with Satan in the wilderness after Jesus’ 40-day fast. The serpentlike tactics employed by Jehovah’s Adversary in his temptation efforts toward God’s Son followed the pattern seen in Eden some 4,000 years earlier, and Satan’s offer of rulership over earthly kingdoms made clear that the issue of universal sovereignty had not changed. (Matt 4:1-10)

The book of Revelation reveals the continuance of the issue down until the time when Jehovah God declares the case closed (compare Ps 74:10, 22, 23) and executes righteous judgment upon all opposers, by his righteous Kingdom rule bringing complete vindication and sanctification to his holy name.(Re 11:17, 18; 12:17; 14:6, 7)
 
Upvote 0

Noxot

anarchist personalist
Supporter
Aug 6, 2007
8,191
2,450
37
dallas, texas
Visit site
✟231,339.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
i swear I could just keep on saying I don't understand and I would just get more lights and then i would still be confused as to what is going on due to my weakness I guess. this tree of knowledge of good and evil i still do not get or understand. good and evil mixed together seems to not be a good thing. but free will requires that the possibility of evil exist right?

is the tree of knowledge of good and evil caused to come into manifestation because of something that happened before this age? does it rest on the foundation of satan or some other kind of fallen being or does it rest on the foundation of God? did people already ask this? i know God says that we are all trees. i remember that Jesus healed a man that was blind but the man said that he saw trees.

Mark 8:23-24 (ESV)
(8:23) And he took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village, and when he had spit on his eyes and laid his hands on him, he asked him, “Do you see anything?” (8:24) And he looked up and said, “I see men, but they look like trees, walking.”


anyways I just can't seem to understand enough. I need to get closer to Jesus. sorry that i am so dull and hardheaded.
 
Upvote 0

Noxot

anarchist personalist
Supporter
Aug 6, 2007
8,191
2,450
37
dallas, texas
Visit site
✟231,339.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
oops!

I was saying "Lot" repeatedly in my last rambling post when I meant to be referring to "Job". I got to tone down the coffee in the mornings. Sorry for the confusion ....if any one really cares that is. :)

you only got 2 letters wrong so its no problem. :p
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Wheeler

Member
Oct 17, 2006
1,055
24
✟16,325.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Indeed men are as “trees”. What kind of fruit will men bear when confronted with the Truth in this last day? Will it be in opposition to it? Or will it be a confession…an acknowledgement of it? Either make the tree good and his fruit good or else make the tree corrupt and his fruit corrupt.

Matthew 12:32-37 KJV
(32) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
(33) Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
(34) O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

An evil man out of the evil “treasure”….that is, the heart…shall bring forth bad things. He will add evil to the knowledge of the good he will have just heard the Holy Spirit speaking.

It is the tree of the knowledge of good AND evil. An evil man will add evil words to the good he will hear. He will speak out rashly against it and he will oppose those who will not render evil back to them.

(35) A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
(36) But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
(37) For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

The Pharisees were such men. They thought that they were doing God “service”….blessing God…by opposing Jesus. They spoke of him severely….as a man that is not of God. They thought they were doing God “service” by defending the Sabbath day commandment by speaking evil of Jesus who seemingly…to them…did not keep it.

John 9:16 KJV
(16) Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.

yet, they did not keep the law themselves. They made the Word of God ...to have love for one another....of none effect ...by seeking to kill him...with their tongues and literally. All of the things they did were in defense of their own traditions of men.

John 7:19-20 KJV
(19) Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
(20) The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?


Judas betrayed Jesus with a “kiss” but brought men loaded with “swords and staves” to take him. Will men be doing God “service” (a kiss)? Will they be honoring Him with their lips and be speaking evil of what they will hear? Will they be defending their own commandments, teachings and traditions of men as service to God?

Luke 22:48-53 KJV
(48) But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

Men will judge the servants of God with the “sword” of their mouth….thinking they are doing the right thing. We are not to fight them back….to smite them with the “sword” of our tongues.

(49) When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?

How will anyone listen to what we have to say (the preaching of the Word of God in Truth) if we render evil for evil by “cutting off” an ear of another?

(50) And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
(51) And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.

They will come out again….just as they did to Jesus….with the “swords and staves” of their mouths.

Luke 22:52-53 KJV
(52) Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
(53) When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

We are to follow in Jesus’ footsteps….being faithful unto the “death” of those who will speak evil of us. They will contradict those who will preach the Truth in this last day just as they did with him. No servant is above his Master. As they treated him, they will treat us.

Hebrews 12:2-4 KJV
(2) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
(3) For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

We are not to “cut off” another’s ear from hearing by rendering evil for evil….but to always show kindness and love to our enemies.

(4) Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Those who will preach the Truth can not fight the contradictors back with evil for evil.

Proverbs 9:7 KJV
(7) He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame:and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.

The servant of the Lord must NOT strive with the contradictors…..by cutting off an ear of another with evil words. He must be gentle unto all men….apt to teach….patient….and in meekness instructing those that oppose.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 KJV
(24) And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
(25) In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

What snare will the devil have taken them in? The eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil….blessing God while opposing His servants. We are to have love for one another. We can not eat of that “tree” and live. The love will wax cold if we continue to bash another.

(26) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

We can not live by the “sword” of our tongues. We can not say that evil will not overtake us by speaking evil of another after we have received the knowledge of the good.

Amos 9:10 KJV
(10) All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

For the tongue is full of deadly poison…a world of iniquity. It defiles the heart…..the love will die out of the heart of those who will continue to “live” by it in the face of such great revelations of the Truth in this coming time.

James 3:5-11 KJV
(5) Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
(6) And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity:so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
(7) For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
(8) But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
(9) Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
(10) Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
(11) Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
 
Upvote 0

x141

...
Sep 25, 2011
5,138
466
Where you are ...
Visit site
✟25,111.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The good and evil knowledge of the tree are both a path that lead to destruction. Jesus' temptation was in his mind just like ours is, to eat of your mind in any form, good or evil brings you into captivity. A little leaven leaven's the whole lump. This is why you must loose your soul, his thoughts are higher than our thoughts. If you don't eat and wait on the Lord his revealing will come from within and the heaevns within will open and you will find a table spread before you in the midst of your enemies, your accusers, both good and evil. The midst is within, this Christ in you, but if the Christ in you can be corrupted, good luck cause you'll need it. It says, If it were possible the very elect would be deiceved. Paul was convinced, as I am now that nothing can separate us from the Love of God which is in Christ Jesus and which now is in us we having even been born of the same.
 
Upvote 0

Wheeler

Member
Oct 17, 2006
1,055
24
✟16,325.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Jesus comes to give us….to REMIND us…..of the knowledge of the good in this last day. We are to hear the knowledge of the good (REMEMBER HIS WORDS) and DO it so that we may eat of the “tree of life”. We ALREADY have the knowledge of the good within us...in our mouths...in our hearts.


James 4:17 KJV
(17) Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Jesus is the “first and last”….he is the greatest two commandments: to have love for God with all of our hearts, minds, souls and strength and to have love for one another. He comes to REMIND us of His sayings so that we may do them. The law and the prophets are summed up….Alpha and Omega…in these words: have love for one another. We FULFILL…complete (A to Z, alpha and omega, beginning and end, first and last)…. the law and the prophets by doing so.

Revelation 22:13-15 KJV
(13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

He comes to give us (remind us) of the knowledge of the good so that we may do it. We may then have the right to the tree of life……to be able to preach the Word of God in Truth for others to be healed with the words that we will speak. A healing tongue is a “tree of life”. Proverbs 15:4.

(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

But outside will be those who will persecute the doers of the knowledge of the good. They will hear the knowledge of the good also but will not do it. Instead, they will add evil to the knowledge of the good. They will eat of the tree of the knowledge of the good AND evil. If we know the good and do not do it, we sin.

(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

What is the “lie”? This goes right back to the very beginning. “ye shall surely not die” or literally “dying, you shall not die”…..or by “killing, you shall not die” yourself.

Genesis 3:4-5 KJV
(4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
(5) For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Paraphrasing here:

By “killing” others with your mouth, no evil …no harm…shall come to you. You will have “peace and safety” to do these things because you are doing God “service” by opposing and speaking negatively of those who want to destroy your denominations , commandments, teachings, and traditions that you cherish with their “strange” words that they are saying. Go ahead and not practice the golden rule….for God knows that you are acting as His judges knowing good and evil. You will be doing Him service….doing a good thing. You can be a judge of them for Him because you are wise knowing what is best for them.


But this is practicing and loving a lie that was told from the very beginning. They will think that they will be doing God “service”….acting as His judge, jury and executioner….by “killing” you with their words supposedly for His good and for your own good. They will be wise in their own eyes. They will not have known the Father by doing so.

John 16:2-3 KJV
(2) They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
(3) And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

We are reminded of His words. His saying…the Saying of God…the Word of God: have love for one another. But those who will not do His righteousness are not of God for God is love.

John 15:17 KJV
(17) These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Jesus comes to remind us of His commandments. The knowledge of the good is brought back to our remembrance. He comes to speak to us and there will no longer be any “cloke” for willful sin. There will no longer be any sacrifice for willful sins once one has received the knowledge of the Truth. One can not add evil to the knowledge of the good and expect to “live”. To think that no harm shall come to you by opposing and slandering what one will hear is a lie.

John 15:20-25 KJV
(20) Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
(21) But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
(22) If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
(23) He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

Hebrews 10:26 KJV
(26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

His commandment is not hidden from us. The Word is already in our mouths and in our hearts so that we may do it…..to have love for one another. We are REMINDED of this…of His commandment.

Deuteronomy 30:11-19 KJV
(11) For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
(12) It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
(13) Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
(14) But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(15) See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

We are reminded ….commanded….this day to love God with all of our hearts, minds and souls and to walk in His ways…..to have love for one another.

(16) In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
(17) But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

If we believe and practice a lie, then we shall surely “perish” within our hearts.

(18) I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

We are to choose life so that our hearts and our words (seed) may be living. We may eat of the “tree of life”. Our mouths shall speak His Word in Truth and in love.

(19) I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

The “land” is our hearts. The “promised land” where “milk and honey” will flow is within our very hearts.

20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

The “earth”…the “land”….the HEART….shall be filled with the glory of Jehovah.

Numbers 14:20-24 KJV
(20) And the LORD said, I have pardoned according to thy word:
(21) But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.

But who will not listen to His voice in this last day? Who will tempt Him now these “ten times” until there is no remedy? Who will provoke Him? Who will oppose and contradict what they will hear in this last day? Who will add evil to the knowledge of the good?

(22) Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;
(23) Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

Only those…such as Caleb….who are of a humble, contrite spirit…and will believe and follow Him fully shall be brought into the “land”…the promised land of the heart where milk and honey will flow abundantly.

(24) But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully,him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

We are to repent of our sins….and He is just and will forgive us for opposing the Truth in this last day…in the year of salvation. His patience with us is our salvation….not wanting anyone to perish but come to the acknowledgement of the Truth.

Going back to Job, we see his friends did just that so that God’s wrath did not come upon them….for His wrath was kindled against them but had not dealt with them according to their folly. They were warned and instructed.

Job 42:7-9 KJV
(7) And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

They were instructed to take 7 bullocks and 7 rams and go to Job and offer up for themselves a burnt offering and Job would pray for them.

(8) Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.
(9) So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.

They were to repent to Job for their evil accusations of him and he would forgive them.

Luke 17:3-4 KJV
(3) Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
(4) And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

The 7 “bullocks” are the “calves of our lips”. We are to turn to Jehovah with our words and our hearts and say…..

Hosea 14:1-2 KJV
(1) O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.
(2) Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

His servant Job prayed for his friends. “Prayer” is the preaching of the Word of God in Truth. The “hired servants” of the Father have “bread enough to spare”. They preach His Word for others to hear attentively. Why perish with hunger within by resisting it? Come and listen to them and be saved….be accepted.

Luke 15:17-21 KJV
(17) And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

And here is the “calf” of our lips….our “sacrifice”:

(18) I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
(19) And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

We are to repent of our willful sins….to bring our sacrifice….the “calf” of our lips…. and be healed……

(20) And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
(21) And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

The 7 “rams” refers to hearing His voice attentively and obeying. The number 7 is for completion. Hear AND DO IT. His servants preach His Word….His voice.

1 Samuel 15:22-23 KJV
(22) And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Don’t oppose…don’t reject the Word of Jehovah in this last day.

(23) For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
 
Upvote 0

timbo3

Newbie
Nov 4, 2006
581
22
East Texas
✟18,582.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Married
I still don't understand enough. is what the woman said Job 2:9-10 (ESV)
(2:9) Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die.” (2:10) But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.


was it good or bad. I always thought what she said was bad. now I am thinking this woman seems like someone I have heard before. to me it now seems she was saying something good. or am I still being so dull that i don't get anything. I could have swore I saw something. I want to know. job did not sin with his lips. if the lips are this woman then what she said is good right? but it says job did not sin with his lips! I am sorry that right now I am so dull. I understand that the greek version of job is very different from the hebrew. very troubling but I know God has a solution.

i'm trying to recall if job was one of the books that was not to be read until a certain age by the jews i think. could it be because it is very confusing or did they do it because of the suffering i wonder. I know song of solomon was restricted too because most people just turn that book into something fleshly and I think some people would say that that book was restricted because of the fleshly content. ;S

Job's wife, after seeing her husband lose his (and her) livelihood and her children, then for Job to be struck "with a malignant boil from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head", in which he now had "to take for himself a fragment of earthenware with which to scrape himself; and he was sitting in among the ashes"(Job 2:7, 8), she now felt all was lost. Depression could of easliy set in. She spoke from despair, telling Job: "Are you yet holding fast your integrity? Curse God and die!”

It must have pained her to see her once active husband brought low by a loathsome disease. She had lost her beloved children. She may have been so distraught because of all of this that she lost sight of what was truly important—their relationship with God. This distraughtness was obviously progressive and reach a culmination of telling him to "Curse God and die".

Many feel frustrated, even angry, when their life is radically changed by someone else’s sickness. Still, a Christian who reasons on the situation should realize eventually that this affords him an opportunity to demonstrate the genuineness of his (or her) love. True love “is long-suffering and kind . . . [and] does not look for its own interests . . . It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” (1 Corinthians 13:4-7)

Rather than allow negative feelings to dominate, therefore, it is essential that we do our best to get them under control. Proverbs 3:21, 22 says: "My son, may they not get away from your eyes. Safeguard practical wisdom and thinking ability, and they will prove to be life to your soul and charm to your throat."

Some time later, after the issue of universal sovereignty was before all the angels, in which Job was the "main character" and proved his integrity, Job's wife was still by his side, for at Job 42:13 says that "he also came to have seven sons and three daughters."

God also "turned back the captive condition of Job when he prayed in behalf of his companions (who were no real friends at all), and Jehovah began to give in addition all that had been Job’s, in double amount. And there kept coming to him all his brothers and all his sisters and all those formerly knowing him, and they began to eat bread with him in his house and to sympathize with him and to comfort him over all the calamity that Jehovah had let come upon him; and they proceeded each one to give him a piece of money and each one a gold ring."(Job 42:10, 11)

Hence, God "blessed the end of Job afterward more than his beginning."(Job 42:12) Job's wife may have then felt remorse over her telling Job to "curse God and die." With the exception of Jehovah God, everyone has limitations, both mental, emotional and physical. Even Jesus Christ was affected by the pressure he was under, with Jehovah sending an angel to strengthen him at the most critical time of his life.(Luke 22:43)

The book of Job should be read by all, for it is one of the 39 books of Hebrew Scriptures (commonly, though inaccurately, called the Old Testament). James spoke of Job, saying: "Look! We pronounce happy those who have endured. you have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome Jehovah gave, that Jehovah is very tender in affection and merciful."(James 5:11, New World Translation)

The Song of Solomon should also be read, as it too is part of the Hebrew Scriptures. However, some have distorted it's real meaning, focusing on erotic "love" (Greek eros) rather than agape (Greek) or principled love, that "love is as strong as death is, insistence on exclusive devotion is as unyielding as She´ol is."(Song of Solomon 8:6, sheol, mankind's common grave)

Genuine love is brought to the fore, being pictorial of the unswerving love that the "bride of Christ" or the 144,000 chosen ones from the earth (Rev 14:1, 4), has for the "groom", Jesus Christ.(2 Cor 11:2)
 
Upvote 0

Wheeler

Member
Oct 17, 2006
1,055
24
✟16,325.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Just to add some additional thoughts to Job and his “wife”.

The verses Job 2:7-10 are kind of a “summary”…..a pre-summary…of the events that would follow afterward.

Satan “smote” Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

Job 2:7-10 KJV
(7) So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

How was this done? Through the evil accusations….the words…. of his “friends” who had an “appointment” together with him. We see the “parable” first…then the reality. His friends assembled against him and “smote” him with their words!

At first it would appear as they were coming to console him…..with “feigned” words though. They were really sent to “break” him….to bruise him with their words…the “smiting”. They struck him with their words. But Job maintained his innocence….he did not render evil back to them.

Job 19:1-3 KJV
(1) Then Job answered and said,
(2) How long will ye vex my soul, and break me in pieces with words?

“Ye reproached me”……they bruised him from foot to crown by striking him with evil words. They did not show any love by doing so….they made themselves “strange” to him even though they were close friends of his.

(3) These ten times have ye reproached me: ye are not ashamed that ye make yourselves strange to me.

Why did the “friends” have an “appointment”? Because they were sent as an assembly by Satan to test Job’s faith in God. They were of the “synagogue of Satan”. They were “friends”….and nothing will test your faith in the Truth more in this coming time than the evil words of those who are really close to you . They will assemble against you with their evil accusations.

Psalms 41:9 KJV
(9) Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

His “friends” abhorred him….those that loved him turned against him with their words. They persecuted him as “God”….for they judged him… “ye are as gods”. The “man of sin” will see himself as God when he will come forth assembled together against the righteous in this coming time. Many will come together as “one man” to oppose and contradict.

Job 19:19-22 KJV
(19) All my inward friends abhorred me: and they whom I loved are turned against me.
(20) My bone cleaveth to my skin and to my flesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth.
(21) Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
(22) Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?

And yet, Job did not lose his cool. He did not render evil for evil. The “potsherd” that he used to “scrape himself” with was his TONGUE.

When his friends made evil accusations of him, he did not return evil for evil but answered them back in innocence. He kept himself humble in his return answers to his friends. This is all a “pre-summary” of the events that would follow at the testing of his faith by his friends words.

Job 2:7-10 KJV
(7) So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
(8) And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.

But there was a temptation to speak render evil for evil with his tongue. His “wife” is his tongue. The word for “curse” here is “barak” which means “to bless” as well as“to curse.” In this context it should be translated “Bless God and kill.” This is the “lie” of the serpent he was hearing within himself.

It was saying “go ahead and render evil for their evil”…..by cursing out his friends for their accusations, he would be “blessing God”. We can NOT bless God and “kill” others who will speak evil of us. “Bless God and kill” is terrible advice….a lie of the serpent. We can not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good AND evil and live. We are to “eschew” evil and pursue peace with all men. This is what Job did.

(9) Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.

Job OVERCAME sin. Sin lied at the door of his mouth……but he overcame it. He ruled over it. He did not follow the “lie”....he did not love and practice the lie but did no “sin” with his mouth. He did not render evil for evil back to his friends. He kept his “wife”…his tongue…in subjection to his heart. He did not let the “wife” have her way but ruled over the temptation to fight back evil for evil.

(10) But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

They did not believe in what Job had to say. They instead mocked what he had to say. The wicked will do likewise in this last day. They will not hear the preaching of the Word of Truth and believe but will mock what we have to say.

Job 21:1-3 KJV
(1) But Job answered and said,
(2) Hear diligently my speech, and let this be your consolations.
(3) Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on.

We are to endure the tribulation for what our close friends will throw at us when we do receive the Truth in this last day. All who will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution from those who will not agree with us. But we shall receive a “hundredfold”….that is 100%....twice as much after we have endured.

Job 42:10-12 KJV
(10) And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.

Every one gave him an “earring of gold”…..

(11) Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
(12) So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.

An earring of gold signifies that everyone listened attentively to the preaching of Job….the Word of Truth….and DID it. this will also happen in the end.

Proverbs 25:12 KJV
(12) As an earring of gold, and an ornament of fine gold, so is a wise reprover upon an obedient ear.

Job received a “hundredfold” at the end….that is, 100 percent….double the amount of the things he had from the beginning of the book. Job received persecutions by his friends.

Mark 10:29-31 KJV
(29) And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
(30) But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Job humbled himself….making himself last…as he answered humbly. He scraped himself with the “potsherd” of his tongue. His friends elevated themselves against him.

(31) But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

Job did not render evil for evil….and inherited a double blessing.

1 Peter 3:8-17 KJV
(8) Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
(9) Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

He refrained his tongue…his “wife”…. from evil. He did not believe in a lie: “Bless God and curse men” who curse you.

(10) For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

Job eschewed evil and did good. He sought peace and pursued it in the face of great opposition.

(11) Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

The Lord’s ears were open unto Job’s prayers only….and not of his friends. The face of the Lord was against his friends who did evil….by smiting Job with their evil accusation.

(12) For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

The face of the Lord is against them who do evil as it was against Job’s friends…..

Job 42:7-10 KJV
(7) And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

The Lord’s ears are open to the prayers of the righteous……

(8) Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.
(9) So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.

Job did not render evil for evil….and so inherited a double blessing from Jehovah.

(10) And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.

Job is the example of the patience we are to have in the face of the coming opposition of those who will not agree with the Truth in this last day. We are not to be afraid of the terror of our own friends…neither be trouble…..even when they speak of us as “evil doers”.

1 Peter 3 (13) And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
(14) But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

Job answered every man in meekness and fear that spoke to him….even though they mocked him.

(15) But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
(16) Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
(17) For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Wheeler

Member
Oct 17, 2006
1,055
24
✟16,325.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Notice the similarities here.

There was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah and Satan came also AMONG them.

Job 1:6 KJV
(6) Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Likewise, the three friends of Job made an appointment together to come to Job. There is no mention of Elihu here….the fourth person. Where was he since he was the last one to speak to Job before the Lord spoke?

Job 2:11 KJV
(11) Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.

If Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar represent the “sons of God”, then Elihu must represent Satan.

Elihu was “among” them because he represents their wrath. The wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God. Elihu’s wrath was kindled after everyone ceased to answer Job.

Job 32:1-5 KJV
(1) So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.

His wrath was kindled. This is pointed out 4 times.

(2) Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.
(3) Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.
(4) Now Elihu had waited till Job had spoken, because they were elder than he.

When religious men can not fight the Word of Truth with their reasoning, they will turn to WRATH against the preachers of the Truth.

(5) When Elihu saw that there was no answer in the mouth of these three men, then his wrath was kindled.

The “man of sin”….the man of wrathful speaking….will be the last one to speak because he will not be able to gainsay the mouths of the righteous who will speak the Truth. Wrath will be the “youngest” emotion…the last thing to reveal itself.

Job 32:6-8 KJV
(6) And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said, I am young, and ye are very old; wherefore I was afraid, and durst not shew you mine opinion.
(7) I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom.
(8) But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Elihu represents Satan getting a place in the mouth of those who will speak out in their wrath against the Word of Truth and against those who will preach it. They will “vent” their anger. Their wrath will burst like new bottles and they will speak out in evil.

Job 32:18-20 KJV
(18) For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me.
(19) Behold, my belly is as wine which hath no vent; it is ready to burst like new bottles.
(20) I will speak, that I may be refreshed: I will open my lips and answer.

“Elihu” means “God is he”. The “man of sin” shall exalt himself over everything that is God and shows himself as God…..just as Elihu does here. He is in “God’s stead”. He is the right one and everyone else is wrong.

Job 33:3-6 KJV
(3) My words shall be of the uprightness of my heart: and my lips shall utter knowledge clearly.
(4) The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
(5) If thou canst answer me, set thy words in order before me, stand up.

He shows himself as God.

(6) Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.

The “man of sin” shall say he is without sin.

Job 33:9 KJV
(9) I am clean without transgression, I am innocent; neither is there iniquity in me.

The “man of sin” shall exalt himself and oppose those who will preach the Truth. He will say that they are without knowledge and their words are without wisdom.

Job 34:34-37 KJV
(34) Let men of understanding tell me, and let a wise man hearken unto me.
(35) Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.
(36) My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.

The righteous will be the “sinners” in their eyes.

(37) For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.

They will hate them without cause and judge them as “fools”…empty ….vain.

Job 35:16 KJV
(16) Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain; he multiplieth words without knowledge.

The “man of sin” shall show himself as God. He speaks on God’s behalf. His knowledge is God’s. His words are not false. He that is perfect in knowledge is with us…..so they will say.

Job 36:1-4 KJV
(1) Elihu also proceeded, and said,
(2) Suffer me a little, and I will shew thee that I have yet to speak on God's behalf.
(3) I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker.
(4) For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.

If Elihu supposes to speak in God’s behalf…then everything he says about God must pertain to himself as well.

Job 37:5 KJV
(5) God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend.

Then Jehovah breaks in here. Elihu is the last one to speak before Jehovah speaks.

Job 38:1-2 KJV
(1) Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
(2) Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

The “man of sin” shall reveal himself by his wrathful speaking. Elihu…the last….will speak out in wrath. Elihu represents the "man of sin" who will be revealed.


2 Thessalonians 2:3-10 KJV
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

He will show himself that he is God. He will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped....just as Elihu did.

(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

There was no mention of Elihu at the beginning. He just seems to pop out of nowhere towards the end of Job. Job had ENDED his words before this.

(6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

After Elihu speaks, then the Lord speaks with the Spirit of His mouth to answer all of the things that were said with no knowledge. There is no mention of Elihu after the Lord speaks…..he seems to disappear. He was destroyed with the brightness of His coming. The man of wrath will disappear.

(8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
(9) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
 
Upvote 0

x141

...
Sep 25, 2011
5,138
466
Where you are ...
Visit site
✟25,111.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Elihu's speech is that of his Father's. Elihu doesn't condem Job. The answer to God and Elihu's speech is the same answer in the garden when God said Where are you, where has knowledge taken you. You can see this in Nebuchadnezzar's image. It was an image of himself. Nebuchadnezzar by daniel is called a king of kings. He ends up making an image of himself from his dream. There is to much here to write about. The same stone that slew Goliath is the same stone that smote the image at it's feet, one woman two seeds, but not two seeds, it's the woman's perception. He becomes a beast of the field until seven times has passed over him. As Job, he sees.


 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Wheeler

Member
Oct 17, 2006
1,055
24
✟16,325.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Job could not be swayed by his 3 “friends”. Their seemingly logical arguments were not enough to convince Job that he was the sinner and that all of his persecutions were a result of his sins. So the argument will go in this coming time also. “Eliphaz”….means “God of gold”….an aptly named person who starts the “convincing” of Job. All Job had to do was “repent” of his sins and God would be good to him. A flattering tongue? All one has to do is give it up and come back to our side….come back to your denomination…come back to man’s teachings and traditions. You will be richly rewarded….so the feigned words spoken in covetousness.

Job 4:1 KJV
(1) Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,

When all of these things will not work, then WRATH will take over at the very end.

Job 32:10-12 KJV
(10) Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion.
(11) Behold, I waited for your words; I gave ear to your reasons, whilst ye searched out what to say.
(12) Yea, I attended unto you, and, behold, there was none of you that convinced Job, or that answered his words:

In the end, the “man of sin” will reveal himself with his wrathful words.

Job 32:17-22 KJV
(17) I said, I will answer also my part, I also will shew mine opinion.
(18) For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me.
(19) Behold, my belly is as wine which hath no vent; it is ready to burst like new bottles.
(20) I will speak, that I may be refreshed: I will open my lips and answer.

He will cast aside the flattering instructions and not speak kindly to anyone. He will not use “flattering titles” unto man.

(21) Let me not, I pray you, accept any man's person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man.
(22) For I know not to give flattering titles; in so doing my maker would soon take me away.

When the flattering tongue no longer works…..which is “Babylon”…then their mouth becomes a habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and a cage of every unclean and HATEFUL bird. Their wrath bubbles over and they will vent what is in their hearts via the mouth. They will not use “flattering” words but will let it all out….as Elihu did. No holds barred.

Revelation 18:1-2 KJV
(1) And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
(2) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Elihu….the fourth person….will take over and will speak “great things”. The wrath of man will take over….and he will be dreadful, terrible and strong exceedingly. He will no longer use flattering words to convince us of the Truth for that will no longer work.

Daniel 7:7-11 KJV
(7) After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
(8) I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

But the Lord will come with the brightness of His coming and will destroy him….the man of wrath…and consume him with the Spirit of His mouth.

(9) I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
(10) A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

The tongue is a fire.

(11) I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

x141

...
Sep 25, 2011
5,138
466
Where you are ...
Visit site
✟25,111.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This man of sin, the abomination that makes desolate (which is suppose to happen) is in the holy place. In the holy place there is still leaven, a Yet is. Even though the image and likeness you see in the brazen laver, or molten sea becomes the sacrifice that causes you to enter into the holy place, these two become one as the vale of our perception is opened to reveal this Self that Jesus returned to.

The kingdom was taken from Nebuchadnezzar just as it was with Israel but he never lost the kingdom, it was his perception, it became unclean, all the days of her separation.

This is the present church's perception, a gospel preached by the woman who is unclean, both good and evil. This is what Job turns from.

Psa 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

Desolation and rest are the same thing. The bringing forth of Christ in us is labor, labor is work, work is separation. The virgin gives birth, she is not seeded with the image and likeness or that which is without. The virgin is void and without form.

God finished a work and he rested, Jesus finished a work and he rested, we also like Jesus are sent and have a work to finish and rest that is to be accomplished when the days of our separation have ended with the unveiling of our Son.

I have no doubt that this is going to bring forth great tribulation but I am not concerned with this, we behold a single stone until it becomes a great mountain (the mountain is femine) and fills the whole earth. The woman is to keep silent in the church of which church we are individually. This is the flesh where Paul said that there was no good thing in.

We have been in a reviving and a dieing cycle, a seed time and a harvest, ... seasons. We are coming up out of the wilderness, being raised up in His sight, to see how he sees.

Who is the man of sin? Who is the beast? If wrath reveals him, what of the the wrath of the Lamb. Yet it's this destruction from the almighty that brings about the desolation of the harlot which reveals the heavenly city. Job does not get a new wife and Nebie doesn't get a new kingdom but a new perception.
 
Upvote 0