There's more to this story than we realize.

A

aniello

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Wait...
I thought he was Islamic...
Oh...
so, you're not a chocolate chip cookie are you?

I get it now...
just takes a moment...
have to wait for it every now and then.

As far as Mr. Obama, his final destination is not sure - yet.
Although it does seem as if he has selected a really warm place,
Yeshua can still reach him until his last heartbeat...

It's so hard to find reliable help these days. The "boys" are all "up the river" and The Moussad have a prior and higher priority commitment. We'll just have to wait on The L-RD.

I heard Michelle is testing brooms for McDonald-Douglas.

Sigh!
 
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NealOFA

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Well yeah I remember the time when a Muslim tried to convince me that they and Christians and also Messianic believers worship the same god.

Hmmmm... Do we really?

Our Elohim came to us in human form through his son Yeshua(Jesus) in order to teach us how to properly worship Adonai,
to show mankind who Elohim is, teach the proper obedience to Torah, and then to die as a Final SIN Sacrifice so that ALL might have eternal life. Yeshua died for us, while Allah expects us to die for HIM!

I don't believe we worship the same god!
 
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xDenax

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Our Elohim came to us in human form through his son Yeshua(Jesus) in order to teach us how to properly worship Adonai, to show mankind who Elohim is, teach the proper obedience to Torah, and then to die as a Final SIN Sacrifice so that ALL might have eternal life.

Eh, my God is not nor has even been a human in any shape or form. My God does not die. My God does not allow for the idea of a human dying for the sins of other humans. Do we have the same God?
 
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Gxg (G²)

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From Orange County Register:


The effort, informally dubbed King's Way, caps years of outreach between Warren and Muslims. Warren has broken Ramadan fasts at a Mission Viejo mosque, met Muslim leaders abroad and addressed 8,000 Muslims at a national convention in Washington D.C.


Saddleback worshippers have invited Muslims to Christmas dinner and played interfaith soccer at a picnic in Irvine attended by more than 300 people. (The game pitted pastors and imams against teens from both faiths. The teens won.)
The effort by a prominent Christian leader to bridge what polls show is a deep rift between Muslims and evangelical Christians culminated in December at a dinner at Saddleback attended by 300 Muslims and members of Saddleback's congregation.
At the dinner, Abraham Meulenberg, a Saddleback pastor in charge of interfaith outreach, and Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at a mosque in Los Angeles, introduced King's Way as "a path to end the 1,400 years of misunderstanding between Muslims and Christians."

The men presented a document they co-authored outlining points of agreement between Islam and Christianity. The document affirms that Christians and Muslims believe in "one God" and share two central commandments: "love of God" and "love of neighbor." The document also commits both faiths to three goals: Making friends with one another, building peace and working on shared social service projects. The document quotes side-by-side verses from the Bible and the Koran to illustrate its claims.

"We agreed we wouldn't try to evangelize each other," said Turk. "We'd witness to each other but it would be out of 'Love Thy Neighbor,' not focused on conversion."

Saddleback representatives declined to make Warren available for comment. Tom Holladay, associate senior pastor at Saddleback, said the outreach to Muslims is part of Saddleback's PEACE Plan, a wide-ranging effort to solve major world problems by mobilizing governments, businesses and faith communities.

"This is us serving our own community with Muslims here in Orange County," said Holladay. "We realize we don't agree about everything and we're very open about that. ... You just recognize the differences and recognize the points where you can work together."

Warren has faced criticism from some evangelicals for his outreach to Muslims. Late last year, he issued a statement flatly denying rumors that he promulgates what critics term "Chrislam," a merging of Islam and Christianity.

The "rumor is 100 percent false," Warren wrote at Pastors.com, a website he founded that provides practical advice to church leaders. "My life and ministry are built on the truth that Jesus is the only way, and our inerrant Bible is our only true authority."

Polls show that evangelicals are 30 percent more likely than other Christians to hold a negative view of Islam, according to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. Polls also show that evangelicals overwhelmingly favor converting Muslims to Christianity and are more likely to believe that Islam encourages violence.

Warren has repeatedly encouraged evangelicals to set aside such views, arguing that Christians are obliged to treat everyone with love and respect, regardless of faith.
"I don't know if you have noticed this, but God likes variety," Warren told an audience of 8,000 Muslims at a Washington, D.C. convention in 2009, according to a transcript published by the religion news website beliefnet. "People of all beliefs (can) be, and discuss, and, yes, even disagree, without demeaning or debasing each other."

Warren's outreach to Muslims stems directly from his church's location in multiethnic Orange County, home to 170,000 Muslims. For 12 years Warren has lived next door to Yasser Barakat, a Muslim from Syria who worships at a Mission Viejo mosque four miles down the road from Saddleback. The Trabuco Canyon neighbors were friends for years before Barakat realized he lived next door to a world-famous Christian pastor.

When Barakat discovered who Warren was, he invited his neighbor to learn more about Islam. "I was talking to him over the fence," Barakat said. "I said, 'Rick, why don't you go to Syria with me? He said, 'Sure, let's talk about it. Let's do it.' "
Warren traveled with Barakat to Syria in 2006, and Warren and his wife, Kay, began attending Iftar meals at the Mission Viejo mosque. Iftar is the evening meal Muslims eat after fasting all day during the holy month of Ramadan. Invitations followed to address Muslim conferences in Long Beach, Washington, D.C., and elsewhere.

"We understand that to some people in the religious community these events may be difficult to swallow," said Yassir Fazaga, imam at the Mission Viejo mosque. "But I believe that we have to begin somewhere and just begin to reach out and be accessible to people when they ask about who we are."

Gwynne Guibord, an ordained Episcopal priest and co-founder of a Los Angeles outreach group that fosters relationships between churches and mosques nationwide, said Saddleback's effort is unprecedented. "I'm not aware of any other evangelical church reaching out to the Muslim community," she said

Sadden seeing alot of the junk that seems the come out the moment someone says that they're about building relationships with others outside of their camp--for it ultimately seems like the focus is that people don't truly love those who are to be evangelized to unless they are in agreement with them Still wondering how in the world Rick Warren was remotely accussed of "Chrislam" simply for working with Muslims...and yet the same people don't even address where others already did likewise, be it with Joseph in Egypt or Esther in Persia or Daniel in Babylon and Paul in his work with the unknown god ( more discussed here in #4 and #57 ). And with Muslims, there are a HOST of logical inconsistencies many people ascribe to them that really are not accurate (even though many other things aren't accurate in regards to how to see God) and that is the reason many have taken alot of issue.

As Warren said best:

Several of the above comments are completely incorrect, based on believing 2nd hand false rumors instead of finding out the facts before speaking up. "Only a fool believes all he hears" Proverbs 14:15

The so-called "Chrislam" rumor is 100% false. If the guy who started this libelous myth, or anyone else who passed it on, had obeyed our Lord's command (Matt. 18:18-20) to come directly to me, and then asked what I actually believed – they would have been embarrassed to learn that I believe the exact opposite. As a 4th generation Christian pastor, my life & ministry is built on the truth that Jesus is the only way, and our inerrant Bible is our only true authority.

As an evangelist, I spend much of my time speaking to non-Christian groups. You cannot win your enemies to Christ; only your friends, so we must build bridges of friendship and love to those who believe differently so Jesus can walk across that bridge into their hearts. Besides, it is not a sin, but rather COMMANDED by Jesus that we love our enemies. In the past 10 years, Saddleback Church has baptized over 22,000 new adult believers – simply because we express love to those who don’t know Christ yet.

It is nonsense to believe that you must compromise your beliefs, or water down your convictions in order to love someone, or even just treat them with dignity.

Jesus was called "the friend of sinners" by the legalistic Pharisees because he hung out with (and clearly loved) unbelievers. I HOPE YOU will 1) Always believe that EVERYONE needs Jesus as their Lord & Savior. 2) Have the courage to associate with nonbelievers in order to love them and bring them to the Savior. 3) Consider being called "a friend of sinners" a Christ-like compliment. 4) Refuse to pass on rumors until you've checked for the truth with the person accused. The false statements above should be removed.

God bless you.
Rick Warren

 
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simchat_torah

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I can not help but wonder if Obama is behind this in some way, shape or form.
I didn't vote for Obama, I voted Ron Paul.

But still, I have to ask...

How do people get away with posting this garbage? Might as well spout that aliens have taken over the government.

I mean, we're not stupid. We can all clearly see the hate you have in your eyes.
 
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xDenax

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I didn't vote for Obama, I voted Ron Paul.

But still, I have to ask...

How do people get away with posting this garbage? Might as well spout that aliens have taken over the government.

I mean, we're not stupid. We can all clearly see the hate you have in your eyes.

I really don't understand the thought process. What would Obama have to do with anything? Last year one of the shuls here had a class on Islam. Was Obama behind it? This year another shul I attend had a ladies tea several times for our Jewish women and Muslim women from another community. Was Obama behind that too? I know the activities cordinators and I'm fairly certain they have never met Obama.
 
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ChavaK

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I can't stand Obama, but I don't blame him for everything.
I don't think he is a Muslim....he is a very very liberal Christian.

The Muslims think he is "officially" Muslim since he father was Muslim and the
use paternal blood line instead of maternal like Jews do.
I'm surprised that the Muslims haven't made a big deal out of the fact that
he is an apikoros (or whatever the term in Islam is). They often kill or threaten
to kill those who leave the faith.
 
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pat34lee

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Eh, my God is not nor has even been a human in any shape or form. My God does not die. My God does not allow for the idea of a human dying for the sins of other humans. Do we have the same God?

Of course.

If YHWH cannot take human form, then who walked in the garden with Adam? Who wrestled with Jacob? Who was the 4th man in the fiery furnace? Who wrote the commandments with his finger? Remember that Moses only had to be hidden in order to see his glory, not when he wrote them.

Is our death eternal or just the end of this body? If YHWH can take mortal form, then that body can be made to die without ending him. He can destroy us utterly (the 2nd death), but he cannot be destroyed.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
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NealOFA

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Eh, my God is not nor has even been a human in any shape or form. My God does not die. My God does not allow for the idea of a human dying for the sins of other humans. Do we have the same God?

Yes!

Probably you just don't believe that Israel was been divorced by Adonai & the Husband (Adonai) must die so He may marry Israel again...
 
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xDenax

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If YHWH cannot take human form, then who walked in the garden with Adam?

I don't think Adam was a literal person.

Who wrestled with Jacob?

Jacob wrestled with God emotionally? Jacbo wrestled with an angel? There are multiple scenarious that are plausible.

Who was the 4th man in the fiery furnace?

I don't think it's possible this is a literal story either.

Who wrote the commandments with his finger? Remember that Moses only had to be hidden in order to see his glory, not when he wrote them.

If God isn't a human (and I don't believe he is) then he did not literally write with his fingers. It's like when someone says "written on the walls of my heart". Do they really mean someone opened them up and wrote inside their heart? No.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

I can't debate this with you so there isn't any point in bringing it up. Suffice it to say we have very different views. ;)
 
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xDenax

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Yes!

Probably you just don't believe that Israel was been divorced by Adonai & the Husband (Adonai) must die so He may marry Israel again...

I've never even heard of such a thing. Is this a normative Messianic view? It doesn't sound like it.
 
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NealOFA

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I've never even heard of such a thing. Is this a normative Messianic view? It doesn't sound like it.

Yes God "divorced" Israel as it was said in the Book of Jeremiah but dont forget to read THE REST of those scriptures in CONTEXT because, further along, down through Jeremiah 3 and on into chapters 4 and 5, etc., Adonai makes comments such as:

Jeremiah 3:11 " 'Return, faithless Israel,' declares the LORD, 'I will frown on you no longer, for I am merciful,' declares the LORD, 'I will not be angry forever.

Jeremiah 3: 14 "Return, faithless people," declares the LORD, "for I am your husband. I will choose you - one from a town and two from a clan - and bring you to Zion. 15 Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will lead you with knowledge and understanding. 16 In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land," declares the LORD, "men will no longer say, 'The ark of the covenant of the LORD.' It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made. 17 At that time they will call Jerusalem The Throne of the LORD, and all nations will gather in Jerusalem to honor the name of the LORD. No longer will they follow the stubbornness of their evil hearts. 18 In those days the house of Judah will join the house of Israel, and together they will come from a northern land to the land I gave your forefathers as an inheritance.

But according to Deuteronomy 24, one cannot remarry his adulterous wife so Adonai need to die in order for him to take Israel back!!!

But we all know that Elohim cannot die so He sent us an aspect of Himself (or "arm" - Isaiah 53:1) known as Yeshua. Yeshua, the human with a DIVINE NATURE was the one who fulfilled the Torah and the Prophets... :clap:
 
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Jerushabelle

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I didn't vote for Obama, I voted Ron Paul.

But still, I have to ask...

How do people get away with posting this garbage? Might as well spout that aliens have taken over the government.

I mean, we're not stupid. We can all clearly see the hate you have in your eyes.

You think I have hate in my eyes because I question the possibility of a political ploy? Interesting.

You voted for Ron Paul? http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4167257,00.html
Then of course there is this: http://www.haaretz.com/news/u-s-ele...l-isn-t-anti-israel-former-aide-says-1.403946
I just don't know what to believe....at least in terms of Ron Paul.

Rick Warren has the capability of swaying many NT Christians to vote for Obama with such a falsehood. That's what I meant by my statement. I don't see anything hateful behind that.
 
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simchat_torah

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You think I have hate in my eyes because I question the possibility of a political ploy? Interesting.
No, because you make up spiteful theories with no basis in fact.


As for your first link, it states:
"I worked for the man for 12 years (and) I never heard a racist word expressed towards Blacks or Jews come out of his mouth… I can categorically say that I never heard anything out of his mouth, in hundreds of speeches I listened to over the years, that could be called, anti-Semite," he writes.

The second article is even titled "U.S. presidential hopeful Ron Paul isn't anti-Israel, former aide says".

I don't even think you read your own sources.

tisk tisk
 
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