Is belief enough to be saved?

Frogster · Feb 21, 2012

Rick Otto said:
The two greatest comandments aren't part of the 10, but on them hang all tTe Law & The Prophets.

good point.

Lindas Place · Feb 21, 2012

Montalban said:
Are you saying that when Jesus took on flesh it was not comparable to human flesh, but of a different type?

If so, the Incarnation is pointless.

no... Jesus was both man and God.

LittleLambofJesus · Feb 21, 2012

Montalban said:
Absolutely. Faith has to have meaning. It's also how Jesus recognises us as his own - as he shows in the separation of the sheep from the goats

Young) Leviticus 1:10 `And if his offering [is] out of the flock--out of the sheep or out of the goats--for a burnt-offering, a male, a perfect one, he doth bring near,

"I double dog dare ya!"

Lion King · Feb 21, 2012

Lindas Place said:
It means to believe in Jesus For the Jews it meant that Israel was no longer the vine they are no longer saved just because they are Gods chosen people. The Savior, Jesus has come and He is the true vine if they do not accept Jesus they will be cut off If the disciple had rejected Jesus, they would have never received the Holy Spirit but as we know the disciples did remain and did receive His Holy Spirit forever.

John 15
The Vine and the Branches
1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.

True vine is Jesus the Father planted. The Father planted Israel in OT.
At that time the Jews/ the disciples considered the vine to be Israel

Jeremiah 2:21
21 I had planted you like a choice vine
of sound and reliable stock.
How then did you turn against me
into a corrupt, wild vine?

What does it mean to believe in Jesus Christ? Is it not to have faith and also keep His commandments?

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

_ _ _

He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

_ _ _

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and to every good work reprobate. Titus 1:16

_ _ _

Why do you call me, Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say? As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete. Luke 6:46-50

Montalban · Feb 21, 2012

Lindas Place said:
We are called to look at fruit to discern whether or not a man is a true disciple, but it is not works that justify us before God.

I don't know why Protestants keep repeating this straw-man.

I don't say works justify. But, faith and works.

Lindas Place said:
Good works are an indication of what a man's heart may be. Works justify a man before men. Only God knows for certain the true condition of the heart. Only God knows who the children truly are. We know that men with works will one day say, "Lord, I cast out demons in Your Name. I did the good works." And Jesus will say, "I never knew you." Why? Because He never knew them. The Word NEVER took root in their hearts.

God already knows those whom He has justified. He has known them from before the foundations of the Earth were laid.

None have answered why are we called to do good works, when it should be in our changed nature.

None have answered that Jesus actually says he knows not the man who did no good works (when he separates the sheep from the goats)

Faith alone doesn't save

Works alone doesn't save

Lion King · Feb 21, 2012

Montalban said:
Are you saying that when Jesus took on flesh it was not comparable to human flesh, but of a different type?

If so, the Incarnation is pointless.

I think she's simply saying that flesh does not count for anything before God. Only the Spirit does. For example, being born of Israel (being a physical descendant of Abraham) means nothing before the LORD, what only matters is being born of the Spirit (believing in Jesus Christ).

While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” Matthew 12:46-50

Only those who do the will of the Father can be rightfully called the "brother, sister and mother" of Jesus Christ. For flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to the Spirit.

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. John 1:10-13

Lion King · Feb 21, 2012

Frogster said:
he was right, alot of unsaved don't steal or kill, and in some ways keep law. yet they are not holy, why ya figure?

rom 2;2626 So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law.

In some ways keep the Law? What does that mean? You either keep the commandments of God, or you don't. There is no in-between.

All who keep the commandments are born of God!

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God. 1 John 4:7

Lindas Place · Feb 21, 2012

Lion King said:
In some ways keep the Law? What does that mean? Either you keep the commandments of God, or you don't. There is no in-between.

All who keep the commandments are born of God!

So what's the punishment for?

because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." Hebrews 12:6

Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. Hebrews 12:7-8

Lindas Place · Feb 21, 2012

Lion King said:
I think she's simply saying that flesh does not count for anything before God. Only the Spirit does. For example, being born of Israel (being a physical descendant of Abraham) means nothing before the LORD, what only matters is being born of the Spirit (believing in Jesus Christ).

While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.
He replied to him, Who is my mother, and who are my brothers? Pointing to his disciples, he said, Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother. Matthew 12:46-50

Only those who do the will of the Father can be rightfully called the "brother, sister and mother" of Jesus Christ. For flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to the Spirit.

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husbands will, but born of God. John 1:10-13

well said, thank you

Lion King · Feb 21, 2012

Lindas Place said:
So what's the punishment for?

because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." Hebrews 12:6

Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. Hebrews 12:7-8

Discipline is for those who are born of God: those who have sinned only for the moment, and not those who continue to sin.

Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. 1 Kings 15:5

Lindas Place · Feb 21, 2012

Frogster said:
but scripture says, sin will have dominion under law, not grace in rom 6;14. Why? Why would sin dominate under a command system, that says not to sin? So the bottom line, romans 7, just shows someone under law, so u can talk all about sin dwelling present and all that, but u r just talking a romans 7 life, and that is a fact.

I dont know how a person could live under the law and say they are saved at the same time..

It just doesnt add up because Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

Galatians 3
10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written:
"Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law; because, "The righteous will live by faith."

Lindas Place · Feb 21, 2012

Lion King said:
Discipline is for those who are born of God: those who have fallen into temptation only for the moment, and not those who continue to sin.

Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. 1 Kings 15:5

Saying you only sin a little won't cut it... with God.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Whisper of Hope · Feb 21, 2012

Lindas Place said:
Saying you only sin a little won't cut it... with God.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

squint · Feb 21, 2012

Lindas Place said:
I dont know how a person could live under the law and say they are saved at the same time..

Depends on how one views the law. Paul isolated this matter entirely and sufficiently in accord also with Jesus' Words in Romans 13:8-10 where he ties 'any commandment' to how they should be comprehended and lived, also noting to put off our darkness. Is the law eradicated in those dictates?

NOPE. And can't be. What is eradicated is false understandings of same.

It just doesnt add up because Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

Galatians 3
10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written:
"Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law; because, "The righteous will live by faith."

The Law is not against 'doing good' nor can it be. Paul himself engaged in many O.T legal rituals and practices. He didn't stand under same in condemnation whatsoever by doing so.

s

Lion King · Feb 21, 2012

Lindas Place said:
Saying you only sin a little won't cut it... with God.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

It cuts it if you repent of your sins and leave the life of sin, which happened to be the exactly what David did.

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said to her, Neither do I condemn you: go, and sin no more. John 8:11

Lindas Place · Feb 21, 2012

squint said:
Depends on how one views the law. Paul isolated this matter entirely and sufficiently in accord also with Jesus' Words in Romans 13:8-10 where he ties 'any commandment' to how they should be comprehended and lived, also noting to put off our darkness. Is the law eradicated in those dictates?

NOPE. And can't be. What is eradicated is false understandings of same.

The Law is not against 'doing good' nor can it be. Paul himself engaged in many O.T legal rituals and practices. He didn't stand under same in condemnation whatsoever by doing so.

s

agree... because he was not under the law... he upheld the law.

Lindas Place · Feb 21, 2012

Lion King said:
It cuts it if you repent of your sins and leave the life of sin, which happened to be the exactly what David did.

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said to her, Neither do I condemn you: go, and sin no more. John 8:11

Well, if we compare ourselves with David verse's Jesus... we good to go...

Habakk · Feb 21, 2012

Lindas Place said:
Saying you only sin a little won't cut it... with God.

However thats not what anyone said its what God records in his holy word about David.

Lindas Place said:
James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

AND
John says "If any man sin, we have an advocate."
John does not say, "If any man sin or stumbles he has forfeited his advocate," the title advocate is significant.

The Bible shows us the process and instrument of how this works. Christ our advocate and great high priest is our mediator in every way. We trust Jesus because he is the one anointed and authorised by God on our behalf. Doctrine is essential but we dont trust in a doctrine for salvation we trust in the Lord who is able to keep us against that day and present us spotless, redeemed, washed and saved.

Frogster · Feb 21, 2012

Lion King said:
Discipline is for those who are born of God: those who have sinned only for the moment, and not those who continue to sin.

Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. 1 Kings 15:5

i have a fresh bold new idea. :idea:

i can easily prove where paul pointed to the cross, not law, for the already saved, to the alreay justified, reminding them not to be trying law sanctification.

but i ask u, since our theme was FAITH ALONE. Can u give us 1..1...,verse, connecting commandments, to what Christ did on the cross?

:pray:

I await.

Because the cross is central to Christianity.

lets settle this.

Lion King · Feb 21, 2012

Frogster said:
i have a fresh bold new idea.

i can easily prove where paul pointed to the cross, not law, for the already saved, to the alreay justified, reminding them not to be trying law sanctification.

but i ask u, since our theme was FAITH ALONE. Can u give us 1..1...,verse, connecting commandments, to what Christ did on the cross?

I await.

Because the cross is central to Christianity.

lets settle this.

Better yet, please show me a SINGLE passage from the Scriptures that explicitly states that Christians should not keep commandments of the LORD? Just one will do..

:angel:

Is belief enough to be saved?

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