Is belief enough to be saved?

Lindas Place

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Which is only to repeat your statement, not to address my question... unless you are saying that Jesus, becoming man was pointless
Jesus is God in the flesh… no comparison to our flesh, our flesh will die because of sin… Jesus is sinless.

God was in heaven and he created a person or a people group to be a royal son to bare his image… but each one screwed up.

What did Adam do? disobeyed
What did Israel do? disobeyed

God didn’t give up….
He was in a covenant with man… it had to take place.
Man has to do it, so God became a man, Jesus Christ, and does it for us.
God fulfills mans responsibility that man can’t do for himself.
God came to the earth as a human, whatever is true of man is true of Jesus… whatever is true of God is true of Jesus… God Man.
 
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Habakk

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yep... people want to boast in their flesh... beats me :confused:

There is balance and context in all things. No we don’t glorify in the flesh but the flesh plays its part in service to God. Do you think we are suppose to just quote and believe certain scriptures and then proclaim “a done deal” while going no further?

I fully agree we glory in the cross of Christ when we consider who God is and who we are, we know that we are numbered with the redeemed and we have the witness of God’s Holy Spirit. However as born again Christians we are brought into life not death and once we did dead works but now we are saved we do works of the new birth.

So many Christians professing these scriptures still show a life of the old works, aggressive, reclusive, damaged, boastfull, proud and so forth. Is anybody in the new birth “stillborn”? No we are a NEW CREATION WITH A REGENERATED MIND WE NOW DO WORKS OF RIGHTESNESS. After the apostle Paul wrote 11 chapters of doctrine he started the 12 chapter with. “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.” That’s the flesh! But it’s the new man and we are called to glorify our God with works done in the flesh.

Anything less (Faith without works) and you have a stillborn Christian and that is not an option we read about in scripture. NO, we need to do works, works of rightness, love, compassion, obedience. We don’t just sit at home listening to praise and worship music. We shed abroad that love of Christ whereby all men will know that we are his disciples.

The scriptures that you quote we all understand and believe but we are instructed to proclame the whole council of God. The new birth by faith is a new life, a new creation, all old things are passed away. We now do works unto him our Lord and saviour because faith without works is dead. James wanted to grab our attention when he wrote “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
 
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Lindas Place

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There is balance and context in all things. No we don’t glorify in the flesh but the flesh plays its part in service to God. Do you think we are suppose to just quote and believe certain scriptures and then proclaim “a done deal” while going no further?

I fully agree we glory in the cross of Christ when we consider who God is and who we are, we know that we are numbered with the redeemed and we have the witness of God’s Holy Spirit. However as born again Christians we are brought into life not death and once we did dead works but now we are saved we do works of the new birth.

So many Christians professing these scriptures still show a life of the old works, aggressive, reclusive, damaged, boastfull, proud and so forth. Is anybody in the new birth “stillborn”? No we are a NEW CREATION WITH A REGENERATED MIND WE NOW DO WORKS OF RIGHTESNESS. After the apostle Paul wrote 11 chapters of doctrine he started the 12 chapter with. “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.” That’s the flesh! But it’s the new man and we are called to glorify our God with works done in the flesh.

Anything less (Faith without works) and you have a stillborn Christian and that is not an option we read about in scripture. NO, we need to do works, works of rightness, love, compassion, obedience. We don’t just sit at home listening to praise and worship music. We shed abroad that love of Christ whereby all men will know that we are his disciples.

The scriptures that you quote we all understand and believe but we are instructed to proclame the whole council of God. The new birth by faith is a new life, a new creation, all old things are passed away. We now do works unto him our Lord and saviour because faith without works is dead. James wanted to grab our attention when he wrote “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
There will be people in heaven who’s works burned up (1 Corinthians 3 13-15)…. So that is possible…

and I wouldn’t judge those who are praising God, even if they have been locked up in a closet for a while… I know it took a long time for the Lord to teach me and make me fit for use…. As long as they are spending time with the Lord, they probably don’t need your input…

but if you feel God is leading you to help them, you can remind your friends of the gospel of grace… For the message of the cross is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18) I don’t think doing a good deed will cut it, if it is not produced by the grace and power of God. Maybe share these scriptures with them… to encourage them… their faith will grow.

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.

1 Thessalonians 5
23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who calls you is faithful and HE WILL DO IT.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Romans 14:4
Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

1 Corinthians 3:7
So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow.
 
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Romans 5 leads to no conclusion to speak dishonestly about the fact that we 'have sin.'

Believers are, without ANY uncertainty, COMPLETELY ASSURED of our salvation, but that is no cause to lie about the fact of temptation via the tempter's placing internal evil/sin thought nor is it cause to spread Grace to that worker of iniquity or claim 'legal obedience' when in fact the tempter is present to work and never be legally obedient or under Grace.

Scriptural facts are never a 'just us as believers' matter when the facts of the tempter's operations is within the mind and heart, even PROMPTED to do so by the LAW. Paul is clear about this factual operation in Romans 7, making the again the factual open conclusion of EVIL PRESENT with him.

We as believers are totally saved by our faith in Jesus Christ as our Savior through the receipt of unmerited Grace. To the uttermost and beyond any doubt or dispute.

The tempter, all his works and all his ways simultaneously remain utterly and totally under the ministry of CONDEMNATION and DEATH, which is a glorious matter.

That operation of the tempter happens within the hearts of all, and he brings internal EVIL SIN thoughts which are SINS.

Some' can speak truthfully of this fact. Others will not speak honestly, will COVER UP their sins, will excuse their sins, will HIDE the tempter or attempt to place that worker under Grace or claim the tempter to be legally obedient. Those who can not deal with these facts will find themselves on the ground of continual confusions and divisions because scriptures will rightfully BLOCK that matter out as being an even remote possibility.

Jumping up and down crying GRACE with the working of the tempter within is utter futility.

Jumping up and down crying I AM LEGALLY OBEDIENT with the tempter within is also utter futility.

The Sword of His Word is meant to DIVIDE and DIVIDE He Will.

Rev. 1
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Those who 'hear' what He says to the churches will HEAR the workings of SATAN, the TEMPTER in ALL SEVEN and they will not defer the matter personally.

There He comes, Swinging.

s
You have in now way proved anything, but a now tired mantra you kept giving to my partner frogster. You did not at all speak to the issue, and that being, that in Adam, we were totally condemned, and sinful, never at all good, always dead, that was our old man, our old location, Romans 5.

So now I ask you then to describe the new location?

You can't get past the fact, that for us to be raised in Christ, we must be in Him, like how we were all in Adam. Look at this verse, and then please just ask yourself, what would the new position indicate?


Romans 6:20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.


So now that we are free from sin, we must be?
 
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There is balance and context in all things. No we don’t glorify in the flesh but the flesh plays its part in service to God. Do you think we are suppose to just quote and believe certain scriptures and then proclaim “a done deal” while going no further?

I fully agree we glory in the cross of Christ when we consider who God is and who we are, we know that we are numbered with the redeemed and we have the witness of God’s Holy Spirit. However as born again Christians we are brought into life not death and once we did dead works but now we are saved we do works of the new birth.

So many Christians professing these scriptures still show a life of the old works, aggressive, reclusive, damaged, boastfull, proud and so forth. Is anybody in the new birth “stillborn”? No we are a NEW CREATION WITH A REGENERATED MIND WE NOW DO WORKS OF RIGHTESNESS. After the apostle Paul wrote 11 chapters of doctrine he started the 12 chapter with. “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.” That’s the flesh! But it’s the new man and we are called to glorify our God with works done in the flesh.

Anything less (Faith without works) and you have a stillborn Christian and that is not an option we read about in scripture. NO, we need to do works, works of rightness, love, compassion, obedience. We don’t just sit at home listening to praise and worship music. We shed abroad that love of Christ whereby all men will know that we are his disciples.

The scriptures that you quote we all understand and believe but we are instructed to proclame the whole council of God. The new birth by faith is a new life, a new creation, all old things are passed away. We now do works unto him our Lord and saviour because faith without works is dead. James wanted to grab our attention when he wrote “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
Is the person who does more works than another, holier than the next person? Lets just let Christ be our holiness. This verse says because of him who became, not you. Thanks, Source.


1 Corinthians 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
 
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squint

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You have in now way proved anything, but a now tired mantra you kept giving to my partner frogster.
You did not at all speak to the issue, and that being, that in Adam, we were totally condemned, and sinful, never at all good, always dead, that was our old man, our old location, Romans 5.

And you only prove that you didn't read or even comprehend the post.

What do you expect me to say?
So now I ask you then to describe the new location?

If you are asking participation in froggys folly it can't happen, for the reasons I put in the post to you. But you can't see it, even when it's set before your eyes. Neither can froggy.

You both want to ignore the presence and operation of the tempter and drag that working under Grace.

It's not going to happen regardless of anyone's 'rosy optimistic attitudes' and the cheerleading of ignorance.
You can't get past the fact, that for us to be raised in Christ, we must be in Him, like how we were all in Adam. Look at this verse, and then please just ask yourself, what would the new position indicate?

I've put forth no threat to your salvation. What then is your beef? That I refuse to say 'I have no sin' or that the tempter is under Grace? That can't happen and is impossible.
So now that we are free from sin, we must be?

You, like froggy can say 'you have no sin.' I can look at the fact put forth by the Apostles and see that is not a truthful claim, period. Those who make such claims are in fact dishonest. I don't engage in deception trying to claim dishonesty as faith. Doesn't work for me. Sorry.

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And you only prove that you didn't read or even comprehend the post.

What do you expect me to say?


If you are asking participation in froggys folly it can't happen, for the reasons I put in the post to you. But you can't see it, even when it's set before your eyes. Neither can froggy.

You both want to ignore the presence and operation of the tempter and drag that working under Grace.

It's not going to happen regardless of anyone's 'rosy optimistic attitudes' and the cheerleading of ignorance.


I've put forth no threat to your salvation. What then is your beef? That I refuse to say 'I have no sin' or that the tempter is under Grace? That can't happen and is impossible.


You, like froggy can say 'you have no sin.' I can look at the fact put forth by the Apostles and see that is not a truthful claim, period. Those who make such claims are in fact dishonest. I don't engage in deception trying to claim dishonesty as faith. Doesn't work for me. Sorry.

s
Can you move out of one location, still knowing where the old location is?

But you will not, not discuss Romans 5, and our new legal neighborhood, because you just want to keep looking at the old neighborhood.

One more time, did Jesus create a corrupted neighborhood for us to live in? Please give an expository on Romans 5, if you can? Source.
 
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Habakk

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Is the person who does more works than another, holier than the next person? Lets just let Christ be our holiness. This verse says because of him who became, not you. Thanks, Source.


1 Corinthians 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

I never equated works with holiness; in fact I have only ever talked about the works that God has already appointed for us to do. I am speaking about our reasonable service and that is we present our bodies a living sacrifice. God commanded that we love one another and we are exhorted to dwell upon certain things.

Was Abraham's work a work of the flesh or did God appoint and command that work so that Abraham’s faith would be made perfect and justified?

The evangelical fundamentalist church always did works in the past; it made disciples of men, who walked with God. As a consequence many unlikely men and women came to know the saviour in faith, reality and truth. Now some preach an unpalatable shallow instant Christianity that produces instantly saved Christians without preaching perfection of their faith. As a result many are turned away because they see the shallowness, unforgiveness and lack of compassion in those who name the name of Christ. Christians spend more time trying to convert other Christians whom they perceive to have wrong doctrine. Jesus said “first remove the speck from your own eye…”
 
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FredVB

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Faith of someone without any change is superficial. The real faith that is essential with which there is God given salvation shows change where there are obedient works that are the fruit of his Spirit. Those do not bring salvation, but they come from being saved.
 
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squint

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Can you move out of one location, still knowing where the old location is?

You're asking to verify a folly of contrived non-existing position.

No one can say they 'have no sin' and be 'in Truth.'

But you will not, not discuss Romans 5, and our new legal neighborhood, because you just want to keep looking at the old neighborhood.
And again, your request is to claim sinlessness, the non-existence of temptation within by the tempter resulting in spreading Grace to same.

That can't happen, period. You can camp on whatever claims you think you see. I don't see your claims as legitimate.
One more time, did Jesus create a corrupted neighborhood for us to live in? Please give an expository on Romans 5, if you can? Source.
If your claim is that you are also free from temptation of the tempter within and that working is not evil/sin within, that also would be a dishonest claim.

Get real. Deception is not faith.

s
 
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Lindas Place

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Is the person who does more works than another, holier than the next person? Lets just let Christ be our holiness. This verse says because of him who became, not you. Thanks, Source.


1 Corinthians 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
:thumbsup:
 
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Habakk

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Is holiness a quantifiable concept? I thought it was a state of being that involves SOME action on our part.

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.Titus 2:11-12
 
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Whisper of Hope

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yep... people want to boast in their flesh... beats me :confused:

It is called self-righteousness, but none are righteous, not even one (Romans 3:10-20).

Ephesians 2:4-10: "4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:4-7: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:18-20

Amen, sister.

Is the person who does more works than another, holier than the next person? Lets just let Christ be our holiness. This verse says because of him who became, not you. Thanks, Source.

1 Corinthians 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

Amen, brother.
 
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1 Timothy 1:8-11: "8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust."


God bless you, sister. :hug:
 
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Whisper of Hope

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Originally Posted by Whisper of Hope
1 Timothy 1:8-11: "8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust."
God bless you, sister. :hug:

God bless you too, brother.
 
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Lion King

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Of course an ungodly person who denies Christ could turn His grace into a license for immorality… but we believers don‘t… we don’t even want to be immoral… in fact, when we are, we can’t even enjoy it… because our Father disciplines us… but of course the ungodly would know nothing about that.

The way to honor God with our bodies is to trust God to do it… human effort doesn’t work.

1 Thessalonians 5
23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who calls you is faithful and HE WILL DO IT.

Who are the believers of God? Is it not those who have faith in Jesus Christ and keep His commandments?

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

_ _ _

He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

_ _ _

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and to every good work reprobate. Titus 1:16

_ _ _

“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.” Luke 6:46-50


My Redeemer lives.:bow:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Can you move out of one location, still knowing where the old location is?

But you will not, not discuss Romans 5, and our new legal neighborhood, because you just want to keep looking at the old neighborhood.

One more time, did Jesus create a corrupted neighborhood for us to live in? Please give an expository on Romans 5, if you can? Source.
Good question! :thumbsup:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7626480/#post59860805
Good Neighbor

Originally Posted by Thekla Not quite ...

both terms are quite broad, and respond to the vernacular usage of the time and place as well.

Was "neighbor" included in your list ?
:) :angel:

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for NKJV
"neighbor"
occurs 129 times in 117 verses in the NKJV

NKJV) Hebrews 8:11 "None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
 
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Lion King

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Is the person who does more works than another, holier than the next person? Lets just let Christ be our holiness. This verse says because of him who became, not you. Thanks, Source.


1 Corinthians 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

Not holier, but we will each receive rewards according to our work. Those whose works are better than others will be blessed beyond measure in heaven just as Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 3:12-15. Please carefully read this whole passage and you will understand what both Jesus Christ and Paul meant:

The Rich and the Kingdom of God

16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”

28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first. Matthew 19:16-28
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by Whisper of Hope
1 Timothy 1:8-11: "8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust."
God bless you, sister. :hug:
And you also
 
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It is called self-righteousness, but none are righteous, not even one (Romans 3:10-20).

Ephesians 2:4-10: "4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:4-7: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life."



Amen, sister.



Amen, brother.
Greetings and salutations.:)
 
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