Is belief enough to be saved?

Frogster said:

u r totally avoiding me on rom 5.

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I'm not about to be sucked into the lie that I don't 'have sin.' That is not a credible measure of fact.

Nor will I conclude the sinless perfection of the flesh.

A simple and honest look into the heart by any believer will reveal the fact of temptation/evil/sin thought which is so courtesy of the TEMPTER.

The tempter is neither 'legally obedient' or 'under Grace.'

Jump up and down all you want. I'll not drag that lying presence under the flag of 'legal obedience' or 'Grace' because I know what happens within and there is no need to be a lying hypocrite about it.

Temptation 'in mind and heart' courtesy of the tempter is an everyday matter for 'every' believer in Truth.

There is us and there is the tempter. Both operational in mind and heart for anybody who wants to take an honesty tour within and come out truthful.

s

Lion King said:

This does not change the fact the we are not justified by faith alone, but by love also:

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21-23

_ _ _ _

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-6

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in matt 7, was Jesus teaching the how of it all, the how we are justified, or was he indicating something?

in other words, i might say "those creeps on the corner are bums, those church people are good ocross the street, some go to hell, some go to heaven", but i did not go into the how of it all, i spoke in generalities there.

Jesus chose Paul to elaborate on justification, faith alone, that is why u won't quote paul.

squint said:

I'm not about to be sucked into the lie that I don't 'have sin.' That is not a credible measure of fact.

Nor will I conclude the sinless perfection of the flesh.

A simple and honest look into the heart by any believer will reveal the fact of temptation/evil/sin thought which is so courtesy of the TEMPTER.

The tempter is neither 'legally obedient' or 'under Grace.'

Jump up and down all you want. I'll not drag that lying presence under the flag of 'legal obedience' or 'Grace' because I know what happens within and there is no need to be a lying hypocrite about it.

Temptation 'in mind and heart' courtesy of the tempter is an everyday matter for 'every' believer in Truth.

There is us and there is the tempter. Both operational in mind and heart for anybody who wants to take an honesty tour within and come out truthful.

s

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I agree with frogster, perhaps a brief expository from you, on Romans 5 would be in order, and topical. During a debate if a key foundational truth has been encountered, it must not be glossed over. Source.

Frogster said:

Good stuff, under the Abrahamic promise, the transgressional system was removed, as you know.


rom 4;15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

In Abraham, it is guaranteed, that is why we can't blow it, faith and grace, not law. God took away the wrath working law.


4;16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

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We are not under law... praise God... And the flesh counts for nothing…

squint said:

Well, so far I see Linda speaking somewhat truthfully, but still trying to claim 'both' statements of 'having sin' so she's not outright proven to be speaking dishonestly and then claiming that somehow, magically I suppose, that 'her spirit' has NO SIN.

So, yeah, trying to dance about will bring a certain interesting flavor to the mix by claiming BOTH are true as if that somehow is supposed to make some kind of sense.

I have sin but I don't have sin. Uh, OK then.

Next!

s

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The Spirit of Christ living in me is sinless... Jesus is sinless.

Source Scripture said:

I agree with frogster, perhaps a brief expository from you, on Romans 5 would be in order, and topical. During a debate if a key foundational truth has been encountered, it must not be glossed over. Source.

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Romans 5 leads to no conclusion to speak dishonestly about the fact that we 'have sin.'

Believers are, without ANY uncertainty, COMPLETELY ASSURED of our salvation, but that is no cause to lie about the fact of temptation via the tempter's placing internal evil/sin thought nor is it cause to spread Grace to that worker of iniquity or claim 'legal obedience' when in fact the tempter is present to work and never be legally obedient or under Grace.

Scriptural facts are never a 'just us as believers' matter when the facts of the tempter's operations is within the mind and heart, even PROMPTED to do so by the LAW. Paul is clear about this factual operation in Romans 7, making the again the factual open conclusion of EVIL PRESENT with him.

We as believers are totally saved by our faith in Jesus Christ as our Savior through the receipt of unmerited Grace. To the uttermost and beyond any doubt or dispute.

The tempter, all his works and all his ways simultaneously remain utterly and totally under the ministry of CONDEMNATION and DEATH, which is a glorious matter.

That operation of the tempter happens within the hearts of all, and he brings internal EVIL SIN thoughts which are SINS.

Some' can speak truthfully of this fact. Others will not speak honestly, will COVER UP their sins, will excuse their sins, will HIDE the tempter or attempt to place that worker under Grace or claim the tempter to be legally obedient. Those who can not deal with these facts will find themselves on the ground of continual confusions and divisions because scriptures will rightfully BLOCK that matter out as being an even remote possibility.

Jumping up and down crying GRACE with the working of the tempter within is utter futility.

Jumping up and down crying I AM LEGALLY OBEDIENT with the tempter within is also utter futility.

The Sword of His Word is meant to DIVIDE and DIVIDE He Will.

Rev. 1
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Those who 'hear' what He says to the churches will HEAR the workings of SATAN, the TEMPTER in ALL SEVEN and they will not defer the matter personally.

There He comes, Swinging.

s

Lindas Place said:

The Spirit of Christ living in me is sinless... Jesus is sinless.

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So, you are factually only sinless Jesus and you 'have no sin?' Is this your final attempt?

s

Lion King said:

Forgive me, but I believe these are the very teachings Jude warned us to stay far away from, many centuries ago:

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:3-4



It's such a pity that some actually consider themselves sinless, even though their "flesh" continues to indulge in sin. Do not be deceived, our flesh is the temple of the LORD, and as such, we are all called to keep both our spirit and body from sin.

Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. 1 Corinthians 6:15-20

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Of course an ungodly person who denies Christ could turn His grace into a license for immorality… but we believers don‘t… we don’t even want to be immoral… in fact, when we are, we can’t even enjoy it… because our Father disciplines us… but of course the ungodly would know nothing about that.

The way to honor God with our bodies is to trust God to do it… human effort doesn’t work.

1 Thessalonians 5
23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who calls you is faithful and HE WILL DO IT.

Lindas Place said:

We are not under law... praise God... And the flesh counts for nothing…

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Romans 10:4: "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Romans 3:21-26: "21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus , 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."

squint said:

So, you are factually only sinless Jesus and you 'have no sin?' Is this your final attempt?

s

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the Spirit of Christ is sinless... the Spirit of Christ lives in all believers... we boast in the Lord's sinlessness, not our sinlessness.

1 Corinthians 1
30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus,
who has become for us wisdom from God—
that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
31Therefore, as it is written:
"Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Lindas Place said:

the Spirit of Christ is sinless... the Spirit of Christ lives in all believers... we boast in the Lord's sinlessness, not our sinlessness.

1 Corinthians 1
30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus,
who has become for us wisdom from God—
that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
31Therefore, as it is written:
"Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

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Galatians 6:13-15: "13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation."

Philippians 3:7-11: "7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead."

Lindas Place said:

We are not under law... praise God... And the flesh counts for nothing…

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If the flesh counts for nothing then the Incarnation of Christ is meaningless

Lindas Place said:

the Spirit of Christ is sinless... the Spirit of Christ lives in all believers... we boast in the Lord's sinlessness, not our sinlessness.

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The pirouettes of language never fail to entertain me.

enjoy!

s

Montalban said:

If the flesh counts for nothing then the Incarnation of Christ is meaningless

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John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

squint said:

The pirouettes of language never fail to entertain me.

enjoy!

s

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well, since you omited the supporting scripture, I guess you didn't like God's language either...

Whisper of Hope said:

Galatians 6:13-15: "13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation."

Philippians 3:7-11: "7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead."

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yep... people want to boast in their flesh... beats me

Lindas Place said:

well, since you omited the supporting scripture, I guess you didn't like God's language either...

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I really like to be 'in Truth.' Specially where it's laid out so openly and plainly to do so.

But the words seem so hard to squeak out by many...if they are ever even heard forthrightly.

I love speaking truthfully, don't you?

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I have sin. I have evil sinful thoughts within. Those thoughts are sin and are even of the tempter in my mind and heart, putting them there, even prompted by the Law, Gods Words.

Therefore evil is present with me. Do you know sin is of the devil?

Try it sometime. It's quite refreshing. Much easier to divide from as well when I don't have to lie to myself about it. In fact, if I don't tell the truth, doesn't that make me a pawn of that liar?

I would not be misled to place that worker or working under Grace, claim it 'faithful to lie' or say that the tempter is 'legally obedient.' Those things just don't seem to be truthful to me.

Do you hold that against me? For speaking honestly? Is it offensive to you? Do you think I'm lying? Has the faith to speak honestly led me to lie?

Am I telling the truth?

s

squint said:

I really like to be 'in Truth.' Specially where it's laid out so openly and plainly to do so.

But the words seem so hard to squeak out by many...if they are ever even heard forthrightly.

I love speaking truthfully, don't you?

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I have sin. I have evil sinful thoughts within. Those thoughts are sin and are even of the tempter in my mind and heart, putting them there, even prompted by the Law, Gods Words.

Therefore evil is present with me. Do you know sin is of the devil?

Try it sometime. It's quite refreshing. Much easier to divide from as well when I don't have to lie to myself about it. In fact, if I don't tell the truth, doesn't that make me a pawn of that liar?

I would not be misled to place that worker or working under Grace, claim it 'faithful to lie' or say that the tempter is 'legally obedient.' Those things just don't seem to be truthful to me.

Do you hold that against me? For speaking honestly? Is it offensive to you? Do you think I'm lying? Has the faith to speak honestly led me to lie?

Am I telling the truth?

s

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who is saying they have no sin? even those who are preaching law and works, will admit they sin, when pinned down, with their arm twisted behind their back… Lols'… God’s word is truth… so yes, we all sin.

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:18-20

Lindas Place said:

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

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Which is only to repeat your statement, not to address my question... unless you are saying that Jesus, becoming man was pointless