The Vindicator?

Fantine

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I went to a funeral this morning and heard what I believe to be this passage:

I Know That My Redeemer Lives: Job 19:1, 23-27
A reading from the book of Job
Then Job answered and said: Oh, would that my words were written down! Would that they were inscribed in a record: that with an iron chisel and with lead they were cut in the rock forever! But as for me, I know that my Vindicator lives, and that he will at last stand forth upon the dust; whom I myself shall see: my own eyes, not another's, shall behold him, and from my flesh I shall see God; my inmost being is consumed with longing.

And I thought, "What happened to Redeemer?"

And then I thought, "Is this the new translation?"

And then I thought, "Well, vindicator is not as musical as "redeemer" in those hymns..."

But I also remembered that the word 'redeemer' gave me this whole "green stamp" feeling--like we were a bunch of box tops, or coupons...

Whereas "vindicator" gives the connotation of Jesus vanquishing the evil in the world as personified by Satan.

And so in a way it was better, unmusical as it is...

So score one very small plus for new translations (provided they are recited.)
 

Fantine

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No, this was the first reading. I have never heard Jesus referred to as "vindicator" in a hymn, but there are several versions of "I Know That My Redeemer Lives" (from praise and worship to 'Spirit and Song' to traditional.)

I just never heard Jesus referred to as a vindicator, but I thought the passage was beautiful.
 
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ebia

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Um,

What do you think redeemer means and what do you think vindicator means?

That aside, they probably translated it vindicator rather than redeemer to try to get you to think about what the passage is about in its own context and NOT jump straight to "it's about Jesus".
 
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Colin

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The 1966 edition of the Jerusalem Bible translates the word as "Avenger" .

In a footnote it says that the word "goel" , approximately translated "avenger" is a technical term of Israelite law ( cf Nb 35:19+ ) . It is often used of God , the saviour of his people and avenger of the oppressed . The early Jewish rabbis applied the term to the Messiah , and this probably induced Jerome to use "Redeemer" . Job , slandered and condemned by his friends , awaits a Defender who this time ( cf 16:18-21+ ) is God himself . Job still believes his happiness to be lost for ever and his death to be at hand : when God undertakes to avenge his cause , it will be after his death . Nonetheless Job hopes to witness this and to see his vindication .
 
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Fantine

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[
B]vin·di·cate   [vin-di-keyt] [/B] Show IPA
verb (used with object), -cat·ed, -cat·ing.
1.
to clear, as from an accusation, imputation, suspicion, or the like: to vindicate someone's honor.
2.
to afford justification for; justify: Subsequent events vindicated his policy.
3.
to uphold or justify by argument or evidence: to vindicate a claim.
4.
to assert, maintain, or defend (a right, cause, etc.) against opposition.
5.
to claim for oneself or another.


re·deem   [ri-deem]
Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to buy or pay off; clear by payment: to redeem a mortgage.
2.
to buy back, as after a tax sale or a mortgage foreclosure.
3.
to recover (something pledged or mortgaged) by payment or other satisfaction: to redeem a pawned watch.
4.
to exchange (bonds, trading stamps, etc.) for money or goods.
5.
to convert (paper money) into specie.
6.
to discharge or fulfill (a pledge, promise, etc.).
7.
to make up for; make amends for; offset (some fault, shortcoming, etc.): His bravery redeemed his youthful idleness.
8.
to obtain the release or restoration of, as from captivity, by paying a ransom.
9.
Theology . to deliver from sin and its consequences by means of a sacrifice offered for the sinner.


There you go. I still prefer vindicate. When I was a little girl my parents would redeem plaid stamps for toasters.

The word "vindicate" seems to apply more to human beings whereas "redeem" treats the whole transaction more like plaid stamps.
 
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ebia

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Fantine said:
[

There you go. I still prefer vindicate. When I was a little girl my parents would redeem plaid stamps for toasters.

The word "vindicate" seems to apply more to human beings whereas "redeem" treats the whole transaction more like plaid stamps.

"redeem" in that world wasn't about stamps but was when your relative bailed you out of the financial mess you'd got yourself into so that the family land was not lost or you go into slavery.
 
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