Use Of Marriage Inventory

Is completion of this checklist going to effect the decision to marry? If she says that she doesn't believe that sex is important in marriage (or she hesitates on the topic) will this in any way change his mind? Does the issue of submission come up at any point? Is she going to submit to you per 1 Cor 7 or are we hesitating about that one too?

If you buy a car you are going to want to know how many miles are on it. Your going to want to know what the price of it is, you are going to read over your contract with the bank and find out what you will be expected to pay. Hopefully, you'll know how much you are able to pay and exactly what kind of car your getting and how long it is likely to last. Don't be fooled by the flashy chrome.

Most likely however, they will have already decided to marry and a marriage inventory checklist is just the icing on the cake that their dating has already baked. Do they expect it to reveal something that they don't already know? Will that revelation change their minds? I think that counseling is a good thing and we should get as much as we can but it will only help if we heed good counsel.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
(Luk 14:26-33)

If it's true of our belief why is it not true of our marriages? Not counting that cost can have a man paying a very high price indeed....

It's also good to know the odds before you engage...

http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=22-01-019-f

It may sound as if I'm cynical about marriage but I don't think approaching it with doe eyes addresses any of the problems people will be facing after the honeymoon wears off. I don't see the checklist as helping clear much of that up, so I am cynical of that.

I agree, these tools are very well intended. Stop.
Mike McManus and Marriage Savers has the most comprehensive plan to address pre-marriage counseling and mentoring with mature long term couples in the church. The program, when adopted by a church, or even better by a community of churches (that way folks have a harder time fleeing it) has literally dropped the failure rate to near zero, on marriages. It is the only one that can claim these results.

The pastor I sat with a few weeks ago and discussed similar things with told me how he does pre marriage counseling. I was impressed, he does not mince words. For example, if he identifies a complementarian man and an egalitarian women, he tells them this will not work, but doubts they ever listen to him.

Somehow Marriage Savers really forces issues and averts later disasters. these "Pre-Kana" (sp?) type things are kinda fun to do, but dont achieve much

1watchman said:

This paper might be of some help to Christians desiring marriage. We should not let our emotions rule us.

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It sounds like a great idea, but it's just that people tend to change, so even a person who checked all the boxes 6 months before marriage might have changed half a dozen of their answers 6 years later. I don't think that anyone (not that I know everyone) goes into marriage intending to cheat, which I know is not on the list but it's an important one, and someone who wants kids today may a few years later be enjoying their single life too much and not want kids. Someone may lose their job or diverge from their career path. Someone may quit being a Christian. <shrug> Stuff happens.

Not to say it's not a good idea. I would like my boys to have these kind of checklists in mind, now that I have TWO of them dating. (Marriage must be just around the corner!!)

re the Touchstone essay- (this is MY opinion, based on what I read therein. Feel free to disagree with My Opinion without attacking)
the writer overgeneralizes, does not cite sources for many of the nebulous 'facts' presented and seems to be trying to light a fire or, to put it another way, inciting [Christians to share his view and Do Something]. The writer primarily blames women (the feminist movement) lawyers, the government and some shadowy 'They'.
Oh, and the media.
Oy. Do some research on historical divorce- for a few thousand years, the power was all in the hands of men. In the past 40 years or so, the ground has shifted. Life is not the way it was when Paul wrote his letters, it's not even the way it was for our parents.
I need to do some more reading on Marriage Savers; some of what I read brings back some bad memories of 'submitting to the will of the church' which lead to a few years' away from God's guidance for me personally.
A

1. Attraction is first, because that is what stops one in their pathway to think upon another. It may be the physical appearance, or personality, or both. That alone should not be the decision maker (Judges 14:1-3).

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2. Belief should then be considered, for if the person is not a true child of God by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the interest should not be encouraged; for, "...though a man say he hath faith, and have not works (evidence), can (that) faith save him?" (James 2:14). One needs to be sure of this.
3. Godliness follows a profession of faith. It is not how much one knows, but if one knows the Lord, is devoted to Him, and values the Word of God. These things are essential truths.
4. Character might be next, for after the initial attraction and determination of sound belief in the Lord, one should be concerned if the person is of sound character---honest, kind, considerate, respected by others, etc.
5. Values is similar to character, but speaks of priorities and those things one holds dear or essential. One should know what they are, for they will determine a lot about the person; also, if the two are likely to be compatible.
6. Goals in life should be discussed to know where one wants to be going or what they want to do.
7. Love is a later consideration, which might become more evident as the bond grows. It is usually something that we cannot really say until we have known the person awhile. One should thus not rush into marriage.

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I can't say I agree whoheartedly with the order of these things or exactly their importance, but I do think it unlikely that love would come last. If a person was not having something at least akin to love, I doubt they would continue to consider a person in such depth. Or maybe that's just me. Now I can agree that marriage would not be on the table until a person really considers the other in depth, but not love. One can love a person, consider all of their qualities and decide not to marry after all, but I doubt that many would go through a list step by step, and at the end of it say "okay, I will now love you".

Considering how big of a deal finances are and that money fights are the #1 cause of divorce the finances section is a little short. No questions about priorities, gambling, the use of debt.

Also they question roles like before people get married they automatically know all of their roles. For us, our roles and chores just developed over time, and it probably will to some extent with everyone.

Well intentioned but I'll pass.

I agree those are all things to think about before getting even getting engages. In my opinion though people feel very put of by lists... So it kind of defeats the purpose that you have to find someone who wants to be married to you first to really explore the list. When you have already made the decision to marry it is harder to really take the list seriously. Like in everything a bit of practicality is needed and that is included in love too.

I remember a horrible experience when I was 17 with this college guy I was friends with. He starting asking such similar questions... to make sure we were sexually compatible. His premature questions were definitely a warning for me to stay away.

Anessa14 said:

re the Touchstone essay- (this is MY opinion, based on what I read therein. Feel free to disagree with My Opinion without attacking)
the writer overgeneralizes, does not cite sources for many of the nebulous 'facts' presented and seems to be trying to light a fire or, to put it another way, inciting [Christians to share his view and Do Something]. The writer primarily blames women (the feminist movement) lawyers, the government and some shadowy 'They'.
Oh, and the media.
Oy. Do some research on historical divorce- for a few thousand years, the power was all in the hands of men. In the past 40 years or so, the ground has shifted. Life is not the way it was when Paul wrote his letters, it's not even the way it was for our parents.
I need to do some more reading on Marriage Savers; some of what I read brings back some bad memories of 'submitting to the will of the church' which lead to a few years' away from God's guidance for me personally.
A

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His sources are impeccable. Wow, this is the very last writer you want to play "show me your source" with.
Go to the writers own site, and see his research, then question it, the sources he sites are there, in dozens of articles, and his well researched book.

Anyway, it really doesnt matter if his sources are pristine or not, the things he said dont sit well

Anessa14 said:

re the Touchstone essay- (this is MY opinion, based on what I read therein. Feel free to disagree with My Opinion without attacking)
the writer overgeneralizes, does not cite sources for many of the nebulous 'facts' presented and seems to be trying to light a fire or, to put it another way, inciting [Christians to share his view and Do Something]. The writer primarily blames women (the feminist movement) lawyers, the government and some shadowy 'They'.
Oh, and the media.
Oy. Do some research on historical divorce- for a few thousand years, the power was all in the hands of men. In the past 40 years or so, the ground has shifted. Life is not the way it was when Paul wrote his letters, it's not even the way it was for our parents.
I need to do some more reading on Marriage Savers; some of what I read brings back some bad memories of 'submitting to the will of the church' which lead to a few years' away from God's guidance for me personally.
A

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I see Christians saying this and I wonder if they understand who Jesus was speaking to when he went into the desert to be tempted. Who offered Jesus the whole world and all of it's kingdoms? Would it have been a temptation to Jesus if it wasn't a legitimate offer. THEY is really simple, the conspiracy of fools who are taking their marching orders from Satan, whether in an organization or through freelance work. THEY are those that take Satan up on that offer and bow the knee.

The ground has shifted alright, I wonder how that happened? Let's look at the outcomes (the fruit). More divorce, adultery, inappropriate contentography, fornication, illegitimacy, looks like ALL BAD FRUIT. Are we proud of following Satan (which I say based on the fruit of the paradigm shift) and not living like Paul did? Some make it sound like that.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
(Mat 7:15-20)

There are a lot of other things that could be added to this. I like the categories. But I am not sure how this would be used? Is this something to use on a first date, when discussing the idea of marriage with potential in-laws? Something to be used as post-engagement counselling?

If I had my dating and engagement to do over, I think I would have spent more time talking about things like this before I asked her to marry me. Not that it would have changed my decision in the least, but it would have been good to go into the whole process having thought these things out. And, I don't believe anyone should get engaged unless they are 100% willing to commit to be together for life. In the Bible, bethrothals were as binding as weddings, and I think there is something to be learned from that. You don't start planning a wedding and you want to get married. It makes sense to discuss any potential 'deal breakers' before it gets to the engagement stage.

We did talk about marriage, but I didn't want to talk about it too much because I wanted to surprise her with the ring, something they don't really have in her culture.

Something I think should be on the list are sexual topics. Here are a couple of questions:

- Are you a virgin?
- What is your philosophy on fulfilling your spouse's sexual needs?

If a very innocent young man is dating a girl that seems so innocent, and he hasn't asked her if she is a virgin, then he might be shocked if he waits until engagement to ask her. If you are not a virgin, then it makes sense to make sure this is not a big deal to the person you are courting.

If one person thinks 'sex is something we do on special occasions like our anniversary, or when we are trying to have a baby if artificial insemination does not work, and otherwise only when I want to" and the other person thinks, "sex is something we should do on a regular basis, and each of us should be diligent to fulfill the sexual needs and desire of our partner"--that could lead to some serious tension in marriage.

There needs to be a lot more detail when it comes to roles in the marriage. Whether the wife is expected or wants to be a homemaker is a big question, especially after children arrive.

Who will be in charge. That is huge issue, especially when you talk about conflict in the home. If both of them acknowledge that the wife is supposed to submit to her husband as her head, that could be discussed in greater depth. If the woman says yes a wife should submit to her husband-- but it's equal and mutual, and the man believes in wives submitting to husbands and the husband being the head, that could create a lot of conflict.

It is good to discuss these things before engagement. Some of them could be deal-breakers. If I were single, I wouldn't want to marry a woman who had been a prostitute who insisted on wearing the pants in the family after marriage. If you don't ask beforehand, these topics just might not come up.

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Thread has been closed. Please remember this forum is for Singles to ask questions of our married members.